To be honest now, I think the program should be scrapped. I mean the current GoAs should get to stay as a guardian, but no others should be appointed, or keep the program and remove the shield, (once again, current guardians keep them). Then we will honestly see who is a helpful person and who wants a shield.
This. I already do not wear my shield nor wear the forum status. IMO, it should be scrapped up and removed. The forums and community best thrived when people wanted to help for the sake of helping, not for some sort of status.Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
NOTE: I'm not accusing anybody of doing so. I'm just saying, if you look back into the pre-GoA age, the forums was a lot more helpful and genuine place.
Also, the GoA title has gotten me more attention that I have ever asked for or wanted. It's nice at first, but honestly, it gets old fast. I like people talking to me genuinely, not treating me as a guardian. The title prohibits that in some cases, hence why, I have perhaps a handful or two of real friends, and then many accomplices.
Last edited by Zeus; 12-17-2011 at 01:10 PM.
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Regarding this, I believe this is part of the reason the AoA were introduced. We DO have a responsibility, duty, and image to uphold. I quote this from Pandar; our AOA guidelines:
The AoA are the group that GOA never was, and never asked to be. Guardianship was a reward, AoA is a 'reward' but also a duty to the community as well. AoA are here to resolve disputes, to help new AND old players, to be a friend and mentor, and to be a walking help center. People assume that GOA were supposed to be all those things, and because of that assumption I believe the AoA were created. We're not only here for new players though, as I've helped tons of 60+ characters to answer questions on builds, items, drops, etc.
In short, if you need something, come to an AoA, not a GOA (no offense GOA).
-------AEO-------
WhoIsThis, you keep saying in this and other threads that the quality of GoAs have declined.
So.. the first 2 or 3 generations meet with your approval? According to we's list, there has been 10 generations. If the first 3 are "high quality", lets look at the remaining 7 generations. I want you to tell me which of these people you think are "low quality":
4th generation: Mysticaldream
5th: Ellyidol, Apollo
6th: Redbridge
7th: petrichor
8th: woundedeagle, Otukura
9th: Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin
10th NavyGreen, Darkfader
Who??? Who on this list is "low-quality"?
As far as NavyGreen and the others that are inactive. WHO CARES: evenutally we will all stop playing this game. People will go inactive. There is no way that someone has to cont. to play a certain amount of time after recieving the honor.
As far as NavyGreen goes, people are just upset because they or the person they wanted to get appointed didn't. They are being petty sore losers. Yeah, NavyGreen wasn't on forum long time. Was active player for long time tho. And it's ok to award a new person some times.
It is so rude to go around saying how the newer GoAs are low-quality.
There are few guides that need to be made. Making guides isn't something that a GoA needs to do unless they want to. It proves nothing.
Then this notion that because less people are asking to become a GoA, that PROVES that the GoA program "has lost it's luster", is low-quality, no one cares. First off, not sure it is actually less people asking in recent times. Second, PEOPLE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO ASK. The get jumped if they do.
Exactly who is low-quality and exactly what has declined?
"How Wude! Mesa your humble Servant."
"You can argue with me, but you can't aruge with the math." Foghorn Leghorn, 20th Century American Philospher
Let's not start flames. Don't want to shoot out names or call people out, it's not cool...
Why must there be so much drama. Can't we just get rid of the GoA program and be done with all this kissing up to be a GoA and all the GoA drama that has been going around?
I do not even know what to say to this. I never truly did understand what this program is, nor did i ever look into it. I do not really see it as a big deal. Great, people get praised for helping people more. That does not make others as worthy just because their name is not listed or acknowledged. If people in the community see you as being an equivalent than I don't really get the difference. Maybe I don't fully understand seeing as I have never been active on the forums, nor will I ever be. It's just not my thing. Not everyone is going to make it publicly obvious what they are doing to help everyone. I for one, just do it because I do not think it's fair not to share the knowledge that you acquired to someone who asks. I'm not jealous, nor am I upset. I just want to say you don't need to call me a bad role model because I don't talk about things on here. My way of helping has been in game, and it always will be. Almost every day I am either giving advice to people who ask, answering questions, buying items or giving gold, teaching importance of certain skills and weapons, or helping out with basics. Did you know this? No and it is doubtful you ever would have if I didn't say that. Not everyone knows that this exists and not everyone wants to use it. I have seen some of the most generous people in game, who when i asked if they had ever gone on here, said no. One of the most giving people I know in this game, lucilulu/dopeydaddy does more for some people than some would even realize. Some of the things he does I would even find it difficult to do myself. I won't say what because that's private for him, he doesn't need the attention for that.
It seems like the lust for the title seems to be all that matters. You can still be the equivalent of a "GOA" without having the title. You don't need the recognition to be a hero or even just helpful. I know the "spotlight" has been hard on some and not everyone who is worthy is going to want that. Gosh, I am going to be super lame and use batman/spiderman/superman as an analogy. They're some of the greatest recognized superheroes in the media. I'm sure most have heard of them and know their accomplishments so I will not go into detail. Anyways, they each created an alter ego so that they would not be in the "spotlight." And yet, people continued to love them and look up to them. Basically I am trying to say that not every person who does good wants to be recognized by others. I do believe the lust for the fame, the title, and the ever exclusive shield has put a dent into the meaning of it. I won't go too far into detail as this is not a psychology lesson. However, for those who have studied it will have heard of Immanuel Kant. One of the most recognized points in his theory is that which talks about intention and a means to an end. This basically referred to when something you are doing is not as important to you as what you hope to achieve by doing it. Whoever agrees to this and abides by it does not really enjoy whatever it is in itself, to them it just something they are doing to get what they want. The action was good but the intention was not. I think this relates to what the program has become to some. Helping people is not very important to them, could perhaps even be bothersome, but they do it in hopes of the title they will achieve in the end. They don't truly enjoy helping people out of the good of their heart, it is just a job they are doing to earn the status. I'm not saying this applies to everyone. I am just saying that it seems like this has become a reality.
For me, the title above my avatar was merely a way to cover up the fact that I was a "junior member" while most others were senior members. I'll admit that. I started posting on forums more in hopes of finally achieving that senior status. Then they changed it and I believe I am a member now? I have to double check on that. I'm not saying it's dead, I just believe that it was never truly "thriving." Unlike AOA, they are not specific requirements that must be followed upon recognition besides abiding by the TOS. It is not a job, nor is it a necessity. Life moves on and sometimes it brings people with it. Sometimes it makes people so busy that it does not give them time to enjoy everything they want to. Eventually, people find other things which satisfy them and they tend to move on from the things they once enjoyed. Nothing is going to satisfy everyone forever and at some point we need to move on. Life never stops for anyone. I still don't know what to say to any of this. I just know that these are my thoughts which I have thought for a while. On a side note, I would like to say that as much as I never had much a passion, I still hurts to be called 'low-quality' or not a 'good-model.' I don't need to meet your expectations to prove my worthiness. I can do what I would like and that could be enough for me. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion on this matter. You cannot criticize someone for what they do or have done until you actually know what they to do contribute. Everyone is on their list for their own reason. I do not know these reasons but I am sure that the devs knew when they made the decision. They obviously looked into it and didn't make the decisions off the top of their heads in the moment. Everyone on there is worthy and always will be. Even if this list ever gets removed, they are still worthy. Whether it is life, or boredom it's bound to occur at some point. That's when you must make the choice of which road you want to take. I suppose that's my two cents and I do not think anyone's opinion will change it. I just felt a need to comment as I feel personally offended.
@Aikei, If he meant the same thing as I did, then I don't believe he was saying that all the newer generations of GoAs don't deserve it, but rather the standards set have lowered. It started off with players like: Royce, whom is still remembered as a true legend that helped the entire community at the time to understand mechanics (his knowledge is still being spread through the game from other players as well), Yanis with his tireless work on creating lists of every pink in game, Phys with all of his bird info and charts/graphs that helped people comprehend puzzling game mechanics, and more. Now, I think most of the newer generations definitely deserve it, such as Crim, Jay, Petrichor, etc. However, people like Phys, Yanis, and Royce, as stated above, really made people think those were some of the "requirements" to become a GoA. It made the program look like something that would be extremely difficult to achieve, that'd require tireless work to post guides, and help others, and basically discover things no one has in the game before. Now, clearly not everyone on that list has done such. I was in the "4th gen", and I personally don't think I posted threads nearly as glamorous as theirs.
Maybe my/our expectations are too high, and we are looking for another Yanis to be named GoA. I think those that saw the program launch from the start have a different idea of what it represented as opposed to people who haven't, who may have a different opinion on what it representsIt's a very controversial discussion on what to do with it at the time being, but if it continues the path it has led these past few months, then it looks like it will die out.
Last edited by KingFu; 12-17-2011 at 03:27 PM.
I understand what you are saying. Problem is, it doesn't apply. Why? Because there ARE NO low-quality people on that list. That was a rhetorical question. There are no low-quality people on that list.
How does one even determine who is low-quality and who is high quality? If I'm on a public bus with 20 other people. How can I figure out who is low or high quality?
The flaming is constantly rudely suggesting that the recent GoAs are low-quality. That's an insult. Not, to mention, incorrect.
Ok, so, I'll put it this way instead.
Instead of the op stating WHO he think GoAs are "low quality", tell me what are the things a "low-quality" person does. But be exact and accurate. To keep stating a rude opinon without backing it up at all is awful.
NONE of those people are low-quality anythings.
Again: Mysticaldream, ellyidol, Apollo, Redbrdige, petriclior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, Stompartist, Conradin, NavyGreen, Darkfader
"How Wude! Mesa your humble Servant."
"You can argue with me, but you can't aruge with the math." Foghorn Leghorn, 20th Century American Philospher
Just want to mention I am still quite active in game, for now.
Now as to why so many guardians are on break, let me toss out a few explanations:
1) The number of guardians not playing right now is no lower then the percentage of players from their generation still active. It is only being noticed because it something people can 'chart'.
2) Guardians play hard, so they tend to burn out faster then more casual players.
3) While the game is constantly changing, there is much less to discover then there was before. A lot of the Guardians were players that loved to investigate the different mechanics of the game and share what they learned with others. Take a look at the guide section and you will see so much that is based on the testing the Guardians did.
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Mystical, I hope that he didn't mean "low-quality", "quality has declined", etc. I truly hope that. In real life there are words that describe people who go around looking down their nose at others and fabricating "reasons" why they think they are better than others. So, I hope you are right.
But he has said that about 8 times in this thread and about 6 or 8 times in others threads as well. I mean, these exact same insults, over and over again. Hopefully, you are right. That is was just a poor choice of wording that once said, kinda just got repeated without really thinking it through.
And I know exactly what it is like to look back at a game's origins and lament sadly about the changes. But the people aren't different. People can't write the flagship guids today. Why? Cuz they already written. Things change in a game. All kinds of things. STS games are no longer the tiny community that it was in the begging. These changes happen in all games.
In the beginning everyone knows everyone cuz so few playing. But, when there 2 million people playing, you can't know everyone.
"How Wude! Mesa your humble Servant."
"You can argue with me, but you can't aruge with the math." Foghorn Leghorn, 20th Century American Philospher
He is entitled to his opinion, just like you are, and if he wants to repeat that opinion ad-nauseum that is his right, just like you have repeated certain things in the past ad-nauseum which is your right. To sit and call someone's opinions "insults" is the very thing you have repeatedly railed about in the past, and is not open-minded in the least.
Last edited by Moogerfooger; 12-17-2011 at 04:02 PM.
Hey! Yeah, I agree with you, he is entitled to his opinion just like anyone else. But, if you, idk, actually read what I wrote, you will see that I didn't tell him he wasn't entitled to voice his opion. In fact, just the oposite: I asked him to clarify his position - not delete it.
Yes, he is entitled to go through life catagorizing people as "low-quality" and others as "high-quality".
He is entitled to come to the forum and say, "I think the GoA Program should be abolished because the more recent generations are "low-quality" and their "quality has declined". But, if he does, other people are going to say, "hmm... I don't think these people are low-quality". That's ok for people to do.
I think that if someone is going to make such a statement, they should be prepared to back it up. Especially when said about 15 times in the last week and especially when suggesting such a large/dramatic change. But, if he can't or don't want to back it up, that's ok too. He is entitled to share his opinion even if he can't/won't back it up.
As far as the "insult" thing goes. Saying someone is "low-quality" is an insult. Like saying someone is ignorant. It's an insult. Now, maybe it is your opinion that someone is ignorant, mabe you're even right, but it is still an insult. But this list of GoA are not low-quality.
But, if someone is really going to insist that the GoA program should end and state the primary reason for that is because they are low-quality, I think they should back that up. But, you're right, they don't have to, lol.
Again: Mysticaldream, Ellyidol, Apollo, Redbridge, petrichior, woundedeagle, Otukura, Jaytb, CrimsonTider, StompArtist, Conradin, NavyGreen, and Darkfader
"How Wude! Mesa your humble Servant."
"You can argue with me, but you can't aruge with the math." Foghorn Leghorn, 20th Century American Philospher
I still have interest in learning more about goa and what it may take to join morgaan haha
Lolz thank you
Pm me ill give ya a list of charecters so when you are in game we can find you and say hello, of course we love to have fun and laugh when at all possible
See you soon
IF YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL ACHIEVE.....
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Mooofooooooooo!!! You are right on target well stated and you are another old school player I know is a good example for others
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I don't think that GoA necessarily has to be taken so serious. I think it's a way to promote the people that are very good to this community, contribute, and have been a long help to us all. One that gives back to the community. As petrichor said, there are way too many people out there that fit this role, but it would simply defeat the purpose of GoA by having tons of them. To me, it should be an honor for this game to be a GoA: it's just promoting the fact that you're one of those players that will always have PL's back.
My recommendations anyway for GoA are probably whoisthis (attackelf), dopeydaddy (lucilulu), and Cloakker. Not all of them are dedicated to these forums, but it's the in game action that counts and they're always there to help others in game.
Beautiful post. +1I do not even know what to say to this. I never truly did understand what this program is, nor did i ever look into it. I do not really see it as a big deal. Great, people get praised for helping people more. That does not make others as worthy just because their name is not listed or acknowledged. If people in the community see you as being an equivalent than I don't really get the difference. Maybe I don't fully understand seeing as I have never been active on the forums, nor will I ever be. It's just not my thing. Not everyone is going to make it publicly obvious what they are doing to help everyone. I for one, just do it because I do not think it's fair not to share the knowledge that you acquired to someone who asks. I'm not jealous, nor am I upset. I just want to say you don't need to call me a bad role model because I don't talk about things on here. My way of helping has been in game, and it always will be. Almost every day I am either giving advice to people who ask, answering questions, buying items or giving gold, teaching importance of certain skills and weapons, or helping out with basics. Did you know this? No and it is doubtful you ever would have if I didn't say that. Not everyone knows that this exists and not everyone wants to use it. I have seen some of the most generous people in game, who when i asked if they had ever gone on here, said no. One of the most giving people I know in this game, lucilulu/dopeydaddy does more for some people than some would even realize. Some of the things he does I would even find it difficult to do myself. I won't say what because that's private for him, he doesn't need the attention for that.
It seems like the lust for the title seems to be all that matters. You can still be the equivalent of a "GOA" without having the title. You don't need the recognition to be a hero or even just helpful. I know the "spotlight" has been hard on some and not everyone who is worthy is going to want that. Gosh, I am going to be super lame and use batman/spiderman/superman as an analogy. They're some of the greatest recognized superheroes in the media. I'm sure most have heard of them and know their accomplishments so I will not go into detail. Anyways, they each created an alter ego so that they would not be in the "spotlight." And yet, people continued to love them and look up to them. Basically I am trying to say that not every person who does good wants to be recognized by others. I do believe the lust for the fame, the title, and the ever exclusive shield has put a dent into the meaning of it. I won't go too far into detail as this is not a psychology lesson. However, for those who have studied it will have heard of Immanuel Kant. One of the most recognized points in his theory is that which talks about intention and a means to an end. This basically referred to when something you are doing is not as important to you as what you hope to achieve by doing it. Whoever agrees to this and abides by it does not really enjoy whatever it is in itself, to them it just something they are doing to get what they want. The action was good but the intention was not. I think this relates to what the program has become to some. Helping people is not very important to them, could perhaps even be bothersome, but they do it in hopes of the title they will achieve in the end. They don't truly enjoy helping people out of the good of their heart, it is just a job they are doing to earn the status. I'm not saying this applies to everyone. I am just saying that it seems like this has become a reality.
For me, the title above my avatar was merely a way to cover up the fact that I was a "junior member" while most others were senior members. I'll admit that. I started posting on forums more in hopes of finally achieving that senior status. Then they changed it and I believe I am a member now? I have to double check on that. I'm not saying it's dead, I just believe that it was never truly "thriving." Unlike AOA, they are not specific requirements that must be followed upon recognition besides abiding by the TOS. It is not a job, nor is it a necessity. Life moves on and sometimes it brings people with it. Sometimes it makes people so busy that it does not give them time to enjoy everything they want to. Eventually, people find other things which satisfy them and they tend to move on from the things they once enjoyed. Nothing is going to satisfy everyone forever and at some point we need to move on. Life never stops for anyone. I still don't know what to say to any of this. I just know that these are my thoughts which I have thought for a while. On a side note, I would like to say that as much as I never had much a passion, I still hurts to be called 'low-quality' or not a 'good-model.' I don't need to meet your expectations to prove my worthiness. I can do what I would like and that could be enough for me. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion on this matter. You cannot criticize someone for what they do or have done until you actually know what they to do contribute. Everyone is on their list for their own reason. I do not know these reasons but I am sure that the devs knew when they made the decision. They obviously looked into it and didn't make the decisions off the top of their heads in the moment. Everyone on there is worthy and always will be. Even if this list ever gets removed, they are still worthy. Whether it is life, or boredom it's bound to occur at some point. That's when you must make the choice of which road you want to take. I suppose that's my two cents and I do not think anyone's opinion will change it. I just felt a need to comment as I feel personally offended.
I wish people would read this and not be intimidated by the big wall of text. It has MANY useful points.
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I kinda see GoA's like a good Samaritan. They are usually not recognized for good deeds or acts of heroism, but they do it because they believed in it and did what they thought was right.
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