1.7.5 Content Update (75561)

[elrond]

I still think they could of made more money by offering a choice. Unlimited access to WF for X to 1.5X(X = whatever they charged last year) Platinum, 2 hours access for 10 Platinum, 1 run through each map for 2 platinum. I started playing around the time of the winter festival last year, but never payed the entrance fee, so I do not know what it cost. This way the farmers, and those who just want to play the festival can buy unlimited access and play to there hearts content. Those who have some platinum and want to get a good taste of it and get a few winter items can buy a couple hours access and run as much as they can in that time. Those who just want a taste can get a couple free platinum and run the two maps and quests and see what it is and get the vanities and see what all the fuss is about. I bet they get more money this way than how they set it up and everyone gets to play the WF the way they want to.

[Rare]

why did STS, knowing that they had to pay their employees, make it free for people to play there game?

From a business perspective, it was a great move.

1. While some were alienated, the vast majority saw this is STS "giving back".
2. You open all the main content to new comers. Think about it this way... You log on and play in forest have to get a taste. Sure, game is cool, but you probably won't invest your money or time into it (I almost didn't). Now, open ALL the maps and allow these same people to get deep into the game, get an attachment to their characters, and make friends, and they WILL invest their money and time. I for one paid plat for all of my maps through AO3 and got the shield (which I still wear on my mage).

Don't fault them for opening the main spine. It was a prudent business decision.

and for the free 800 plat packs and chromebooks...they were nice to give out to promote your game but I would rather not be penalized for your advertising.

Then you my friend might not want to ever buy anything that has any advertising.

[adidaman]

I just wish justg would stop pretending that STS is justified. I've been playing this game since April 9th, 2010, and have loved it ever since. Back then, I gladly shelled out the 1.99$ per campaign (no plat back then), but I feel as if you guys have taken it too far. Sure, you made the main spine free; I give you that one, however you make it almost necessary to purchase an elixir to get the full game experience. I'm not one to skirt around the truth, and the truth is fairly obvious here. You guys need to step up your game, or you will lose many veteran players and prominent forum members. Also, stop deleting peoples critical posts. STS could use all the criticism they need right there.


Edit- On a side not, I do not believe the game should be completely free; you need to make money like any other business. I feel like we should go back to the 10plat per campaign days, and leave the extra stuff free. (just an opinion)

[Zenidal]

I've just started playing a few months ago, and after reading all the previous posts, I wonder if it's worth staying in PL. I mean, 2 plat per run in the Winter Festifal seems a little expensive.

[Pharcyde]

Don't fault them for opening the main spine. It was a prudent business decision.

It was a very good business move I agree. What I really dislike is they use that as a reason to justify high prices and a excuse to produce poor content.

• None of us asked for free content
• Even though they say it is 100% free (Which is is), there are still players who spend well over the maps worth to get a upper hand.
• If you don't spend money, you will always be a casual gamer with a major disadvantage.
• Other prices are so high because content is free, but lets be honest.. 95% of the content will be passed very rapidly, since everyone aims for end game. Dropping 15 platinum for a map that will last you a week is a pretty good deal on STS's end.
• A lot of purchases are considered "unnecessary extras", when really, if you don't purchase them. You will literally be playing for just fun and sightseeing. Not skill

Edit- On a side not, I do not believe the game should be completely free; you need to make money like any other business. I feel like we should go back to the 10plat per campaign days, and leave the extra stuff free. (just an opinion)

All I ask for is that they make content worth the price.. Like you said, it's almost a necessity to purchase elixirs to enjoy the game. 5 bucks for a 30 min elixir is a bit crazy.

[Rare]

I've just started playing a few months ago, and after reading all the previous posts, I wonder if it's worth staying in PL. I mean, 2 plat per run in the Winter Festifal seems a little expensive.

Well... Winter Fest is just an event. Future campaigns won't (I HOPE) charge per run.

All in all, PL is a great game. Some bumps in the road, but nothing that can't be fixed.

[Rare]

It was a very good business move I agree. What I really dislike is they use that as a reason to justify high prices and a excuse to produce poor content.

• None of us asked for free content
• Even though they say it is 100% free (Which is is), there are still players who spend well over the maps worth to get a upper hand.
• If you don't spend money, you will always be a casual gamer with a major disadvantage.
• Other prices are so high because content is free, but lets be honest.. 95% of the content will be passed very rapidly, since everyone aims for end game. Dropping 15 platinum for a map that will last you a week is a pretty good deal on STS's end.
• A lot of purchases are considered "unnecessary extras", when really, if you don't purchase them. You will literally be playing for just fun and sightseeing. Not skill

All I ask for is that they make content worth the price.. Like you said, it's almost a necessity to purchase elixirs to enjoy the game. 5 bucks for a 30 min elixir is a bit crazy.

I pretty much agree with all your points. Especially regarding elixirs.

[Snakespeare]

It was a very good business move I agree. What I really dislike is they use that as a reason to justify high prices and a excuse to produce poor content.

• None of us asked for free content
• Even though they say it is 100% free (Which is is), there are still players who spend well over the maps worth to get a upper hand.
• If you don't spend money, you will always be a casual gamer with a major disadvantage.
• Other prices are so high because content is free, but lets be honest.. 95% of the content will be passed very rapidly, since everyone aims for end game. Dropping 15 platinum for a map that will last you a week is a pretty good deal on STS's end.
• A lot of purchases are considered "unnecessary extras", when really, if you don't purchase them. You will literally be playing for just fun and sightseeing. Not skill

All I ask for is that they make content worth the price.. Like you said, it's almost a necessity to purchase elixirs to enjoy the game. 5 bucks for a 30 min elixir is a bit crazy.

So, I pretty much disagree, unlike the person above me.

Yes, they ARE asking for MORE free stuff. For instance, asking that the free antlers be diffferent from last year. And they want to buy an unlimited pass to WF for several weeks, then loot the daylights out of it, and sell at absurdly high prices. And that is because greed is actually quite normal. People want to be greedy themselves, but don't want to pay more then a dollar at most. A dollar? If that's what constitutes "not free", then I say it's a very thin line.

People who spend money are paying for the game. People who do not spend money are reaping the benefits of those who do. The game would not exist if nobody spent money on it. So when you say the people who do not spend money are at a major disadvantage, I respond, "you say that like it's a bad thing." It's not that they are at a DIS advantage, it's that the ones who pay for the game GET an advantage. I think that's a big difference. The 95%, as you say, content that will be passed over quickly... is free. One may choose to play more slowly and enjoy it a bit more.

And the part about skill is confusing to me. Skill means choosing your targets, not over-pulling, not setting off traps. To play without elixirs takes MORE skill, so how do the unnecessary extras help that? This idea evades me.

Finally, you mention 15 platinum, last year's price, but in PL I only paid for it once. I got the free antlers, paid and entered, did the quest and got my wings. 4 plat. Then I went to CS and spent 100K on other people's drops. I got exactly what I wanted and spent less. While in SL I ran the map 20 times, spending 40 plat. I got two pinks and a smooch-me vanity. I ran it that many times because I took characters of various levels to get some nice xmas bling for them all.

You ask that they make it worth the price. To me, it has been worth the price. After seven or eight runs, it's the same price as last year. I bet most people are happy to make a half dozen runs, which is cheaper than last year.

While those who are greedy and want to hoard treasures to sell at outlandish prices during the summer are now expected to pay their own way.

I don't know why I am the only one pointing it out, but STS is writing two new games as we speak. They have tripled their staff since last WF. They have to pay the people TODAY who are writing the new games that are coming out. Unlike the core four, those people can't work without pay to get something launched. When we are playing Dark Legends and Western Legends, just remember that all the plat buyers paid for it, and not one non-plat buyer did. So if we get advantages, it's only right! They should be thanking us plat buyers, not howling about how they can't get 5 dollars to spend on something they like! I don't believe them anyways.

[mafiainc42]

@snake well written agree 100%..

[Aikiebo]

I don't know why I am the only one pointing it out, but STS is writing two new games as we speak. They have tripled their staff since last WF. They have to pay the people TODAY who are writing the new games that are coming out. Unlike the core four, those people can't work without pay to get something launched. When we are playing Dark Legends and Western Legends, just remember that all the plat buyers paid for it, and not one non-plat buyer did. So if we get advantages, it's only right! They should be thanking us plat buyers, not howling about how they can't get 5 dollars to spend on something they like! I don't believe them anyways.

Wow!! A very excellent post, the entire post, thank you.

[Rare]

I don't know why I am the only one pointing it out, but STS is writing two new games as we speak. They have tripled their staff since last WF. They have to pay the people TODAY who are writing the new games that are coming out. Unlike the core four, those people can't work without pay to get something launched. When we are playing Dark Legends and Western Legends, just remember that all the plat buyers paid for it, and not one non-plat buyer did. So if we get advantages, it's only right! They should be thanking us plat buyers, not howling about how they can't get 5 dollars to spend on something they like! I don't believe them anyways.

I missunderstood Pharcyde's last point. I do not agree with that. I agree, without the "extra purchases" (e.g. elixirs), MUCH more skill is required.

However, I do agree with the final point. I have no problem paying for content. I would like to see STS take more time to create better content as opposed to rushing things out to appease the minority that are elixir fiends and get to end game in two days.

I personally maintain three characters and try to level them all to the cap. Unfortunately with the pace it is increasingly difficult (and expensive) to do. Better content that is more sustainable will allow the game to grow larger and have more positive results. I keep saying it... releasing new campaigns and maps is not the only way to keep people interested. I hope in the future STS takes advantage of a lot of the suggestions that have been made available from various people.

[Snakespeare]

Well, that's another thing I see people repeating, that there is some sort of better content or superior creativity or something. This particular trope is grounded in the concept of cynicism. It is easy to be cynical and find things to not like, because there's no risk. There's no risk to finding fault. But there is a risk to stating that you like something. When you like something, you are put upon to defend your taste. I find this in the arts all the time. There are people who pay scads of money to go to concerts just so they can say what they didn't like. And this seems to give them an air of knowledge. But it's a sham. They can't say what they do like. They can't create it better themselves. In the grand scheme, they contribute nothing, only take a lot of personal ego boost from thinking that others think them smart for poo-poo-ing everything.

So, when someone says this vague term about "lacking creativity" or "inferior content" they are saying nothing to me. They have made no mental effort to say what they do like in comparison... except maybe to throw the past in someone's face. Like George Harrison's second album had inferior content to his first, they say, to throw the past in George's face. But they themselves couldn't do a bit of it, and they don't even know what they would have done differently.

So I basically see these "inferior content" posts as mere cynicism by people who find it easy and safe to shoot others down, when they themselves never dare to poke their own heads up.

[Snakespeare]

Bull, if you pay for a product and get less the next time
Like what happens in pl people get unhappy. Got nothing to do with sticking your head out.

Case in point. There is no actual material here, just a person being cynical. It's easy to write these words. There's no risk. There's nothing to defend. It sounds true and therefore the person seems smart, but only on the surface. Other than repeating an unsubstantiated gripe, there is no content in the post.

[Weak_Sauce]

I have basically quit. I can tell you one thing, sts isn't getting another dime out of me.

[FluffNStuff]

Well, that's another thing I see people repeating, that there is some sort of better content or superior creativity or something. This particular trope is grounded in the concept of cynicism. It is easy to be cynical and find things to not like, because there's no risk. There's no risk to finding fault. But there is a risk to stating that you like something. When you like something, you are put upon to defend your taste. I find this in the arts all the time. There are people who pay scads of money to go to concerts just so they can say what they didn't like. And this seems to give them an air of knowledge. But it's a sham. They can't say what they do like. They can't create it better themselves. In the grand scheme, they contribute nothing, only take a lot of personal ego boost from thinking that others think them smart for poo-poo-ing everything.

So, when someone says this vague term about "lacking creativity" or "inferior content" they are saying nothing to me. They have made no mental effort to say what they do like in comparison... except maybe to throw the past in someone's face. Like George Harrison's second album had inferior content to his first, they say, to throw the past in George's face. But they themselves couldn't do a bit of it, and they don't even know what they would have done differently.

So I basically see these "inferior content" posts as mere cynicism by people who find it easy and safe to shoot others down, when they themselves never dare to poke their own heads up.

Case in point. There is no actual material here, just a person being cynical. It's easy to write these words. There's no risk. There's nothing to defend. It sounds true and therefore the person seems smart, but only on the surface. Other than repeating an unsubstantiated gripe, there is no content in the post.

[mackjack]

@FluffNStuff

Lol. Love it.

[Rare]

Well, that's another thing I see people repeating, that there is some sort of better content or superior creativity or something. This particular trope is grounded in the concept of cynicism. It is easy to be cynical and find things to not like, because there's no risk. There's no risk to finding fault. But there is a risk to stating that you like something. When you like something, you are put upon to defend your taste. I find this in the arts all the time. There are people who pay scads of money to go to concerts just so they can say what they didn't like. And this seems to give them an air of knowledge. But it's a sham. They can't say what they do like. They can't create it better themselves. In the grand scheme, they contribute nothing, only take a lot of personal ego boost from thinking that others think them smart for poo-poo-ing everything.

So, when someone says this vague term about "lacking creativity" or "inferior content" they are saying nothing to me. They have made no mental effort to say what they do like in comparison... except maybe to throw the past in someone's face. Like George Harrison's second album had inferior content to his first, they say, to throw the past in George's face. But they themselves couldn't do a bit of it, and they don't even know what they would have done differently.

So I basically see these "inferior content" posts as mere cynicism by people who find it easy and safe to shoot others down, when they themselves never dare to poke their own heads up.

As I mentioned, I've posted on numerous occasions ideas that I think will make for better content. Creativity is in the eye of the beholder.

The concept of critiquing requires that you identify the underlying problem as well as provide a possible solution. MANY people on these forums have done this on a number of occasions.

To make a generalization like you have done isn't any different than people making generic statements like it "lacks creativity".

[Snakespeare]

In that case u must be the only one that may write something here and solo the forum with or without pots.
Since there is. 1 thruth yours.
U did a managers workshop?

I am not saying that I own the truth, I am saying that people who do nothing but crap on other people's work only SOUND like they are smart. When you look inside and try to find any real content, it's not there. And I am certain that these people who just put down others are incapable of creating anything themselves.

And as for quitting... suit yourself. It's just a game.

[Rare]

I am not saying that I own the truth, I am saying that people who do nothing but crap on other people's work only SOUND like they are smart. When you look inside and try to find any real content, it's not there. And I am certain that these people who just put down others are incapable of creating anything themselves.

And as for quitting... suit yourself. It's just a game.

I'm curious as to your use of "these people." I'm not sure if you are referring to me or if you are generalizing.

[Snakespeare]

Oh Atlannie, I think you are right! How dumb of me.

Yeah, I am talking about the general wave of cynicism that has hit the boards. I am definitely not saying you do this. I'm saying that human beings find it easy to trash things, but it takes a lot more effort to suggest improvements.

And you are right, there are many good suggestions for improvement. And that IS the purpose of feedback.

I hope I haven't stepped on anyone's toes accidentally.

Generally, the "nattering naysayers of negativity" aren't helping, and I was just saying that, just because there are a lot of them right now and it's cool to be down on others, that doesn't mean that they are contributing anything worthwhile.