Every ELITE Vanity Items should be SAME.

[Livemau]

maybe sts should just let all the forumers and players vote on it and whatever wins stays not another word on the topic

[Dynastu]

I don't like how you displayed your opinion through this... Rant thread...

But I actually COMPLETELY agree with what you posted.

Here's my idea:

Perhaps make new elite cap stat rings, but what would peeps think about making these non-equippable with any stat giving vanities (dragon sets, COP set, not sure about founder's helm... I'd say rings could equipped with it, and I don't have one).

Basically, you have a choice. You can wear your old COP vanity set or dragon set with BETTER STATS than the elite rings and can actually customize the look of your character, or you can wear the new elite ring (with inferior stats), which is mostly to compensate for people who don't have any vanity sets, at least somewhat.

Eventually, the rings will have to become more powerful, or else persons wouldn't want to level to the elite cap. When that day comes (maybe like 2 caps from now?) the COP set WOULD BECOME a vanity set (with sparkles ). The vanity set could be stashed and used on any level of character.

This might make people without a vanity set happier and keep people with vanity sets happy.

--

I don't think you can just get rid of stats on these vanity sets (presently...) because of dragon sets and founder's helm, which, if you got rid of dragon set stats, that'd destroy their value, angering people, and founder's earned the founder's helm.

[Apasara]

Well if Whirlz is gonna keep saying that the elite vanity is only for appearance then might as well get rid of stats all together. Yes, I have heard the people (with CoP, SoH and MFA) say they'll quit but I bet in reality they won't. Just because of stats they quit the game? Thats uh.. Over reacting. Besides, the ones that already have the past elite vanities will never understand the others that don't until they step into their shoes. I got the MFA hoping to get a bonus too. But it's ok if the stats are gonna be put on rings.. Or something like that. And again, if people keep saying that the elite vamities are only for appearance then ok! Sts should get rid of the stats, put stats on rings and... Everyone should be happy then ._.

For me I don't really feel cheated even when I rushed to get the MFA but it is disappointing for me. I spent my last bit of allowence on plat. But thats ok... Uh.. I guess.

[Livemau]

i just think another chance should be given because we cant blame ourselves for not knowing about the game and we cant always let them have the advantage with these sets

[NECROREAPER]

As said before:

Rely on your skill, not your gear.


If you really were confident in your PvP ability, a minor set bonus wouldn't matter.
Not everyone gets this trophy, but those who DID earn this trophy should rightfully get to keep what they've earned.

[Rockxout]

While all the newer players get to suffer. It's funny how it isn't a big deal but the people that have the stats are the only ones really saying that. No one wants to take the vanities away just the stats. So u can still look like a special snowflake without having an upper hand from the start.

Look at it like this. Two players same skills build and rotation. Same gear other than the elite vanities. Stand there spam the skills in same order, who do you think would win? The person with advantage from the start.

There isn't anything else u can say about that do the math. 5 damage might not seem like a lot but look at it like this. They are doing a minimum of 30 more damage every 6 auto swings.

[CrimsonTider]

As a elite vanity holder on multiple toons, I could care less if the stats were taken away. In all honesty, 90% of PL cannot play their class anyway. A little extra dodge or health isn't going to change that.

People need to be less worried about these "amazing" bonuses and more focused on how to play their class without using Thrasher's.

[Zeus]

While all the newer players get to suffer. It's funny how it isn't a big deal but the people that have the stats are the only ones really saying that. No one wants to take the vanities away just the stats. So u can still look like a special snowflake without having an upper hand from the start.

Look at it like this. Two players same skills build and rotation. Same gear other than the elite vanities. Stand there spam the skills in same order, who do you think would win? The person with advantage from the start.

There isn't anything else u can say about that do the math. 5 damage might not seem like a lot but look at it like this. They are doing a minimum of 30 more damage every 6 auto swings.

There are no two alike PvPers.

You can't say that without fully understanding PvP. I face many PvPers who complain that the vanity set is OP, so I take it off & still beat them. Why? Because they make ROOKIE mistakes. In their mind, there is NOTHING that they could be doing wrong so the only possible explanation is the added bonus.

Quick tip: 12mm skills & your most powerful skills do not always mean those are the specific skills you use first. Weakening the opponent before the kill often produces MUCH better results.

[Rockxout]

There are no two alike PvPers.

You can't say that without fully understanding PvP. I face many PvPers who complain that the vanity set is OP, so I take it off & still beat them. Why? Because they make ROOKIE mistakes. In their mind, there is NOTHING that they could be doing wrong so the only possible explanation is the added bonus.

Quick tip: 12mm skills & your most powerful skills do not always mean those are the specific skills you use first. Weakening the opponent before the kill often produces MUCH better results.

Wasn't talking about skill just numbers. I understand player skill comes into effect. Was just putting numbers out there. I honestly could care less about pvp in this game to be honest. Class/gear is greater than skill when u crunch the numbers. I understand how buffs rebuffs work this isn't my first rodeo. Was stating that same sequence in skills used same spec all those factors if u didn't have those extra stats you will lose every time. Taking into consideration there aren't any dodges that come into play.

I'm not saying that a non elite vanity player can never beat one. Just doing some math and noticing that with that 5 extra damage a swing on my Mage that's roughly 1/6 of my 400 health in 6 auto swings. I've been playing video games since 1985 I understand it takes skill.

[Apasara]

Take off stats from the ones who already have a set bonus on elite vanities. I'd really like to see if you all think the same as you do now. You don't seem to have any sympathy for the ones who don't even have it. And it's true that you're only thinking about what you got, and not what you don't got. Cause if it were me, I'd be happy to give up stats and keep the vanities just for appearance. And again like Whirlz said "its only meant for appearance". I like the looks more than the stats myself. I wanna be able to sparkle like that too.

[WhoIsThis]

Wasn't talking about skill just numbers. I understand player skill comes into effect. Was just putting numbers out there. I honestly could care less about pvp in this game to be honest. Class/gear is greater than skill when u crunch the numbers. I understand how buffs rebuffs work this isn't my first rodeo. Was stating that same sequence in skills used same spec all those factors if u didn't have those extra stats you will lose every time. Taking into consideration there aren't any dodges that come into play.

Totally incorrect.

Skill is dominant. Admittedly the Angel sets have hugely unbalanced PvP, but if we have 2 players with roughly similar gear, skill will be dominant, even if 1 had the vanity bonus. In such a case, gear is vastly secondary to skill. Vastly. Of course, with the Angel sets so potent, the difference that the vanity bonus makes is pretty much irrelevant.

As for losing every time, I am going to have to ask you right here how much PvP experience you have, particularly at endgame. Dodge plays a HUGE factor in PvP (and arguably right now THE dominant factor) as does crit. Taking into consideration dodges is a must. You won't lose or win every time, because dodges and crits are inconsistent. For mages especially, the damage they do is also inconsistent because of the wide variance in spell damage.

Edit: Finally, the optimal sequence of skills to use your words is not the same every time. It is very situational and depends on your opponent's build and class.

The other thing I want you to do is to state to me the vanity bonus. Link it. Explain to me why given how potent it is will it make the decisive difference that some people in this thread are saying.

[Rockxout]

You are missing my point. Idc about skill or how much endgame pl pvp I've done. It's about the numbers nothing else. U can have your engame pl pvp. I'll pvp in other games that are far more balanced. And as I stated before take factors like dodge out. Not skill but raw math says otherwise. There isn't anything u can tell me that my calculator hasn't already.

[WhoIsThis]

You are missing my point. Idc about skill or how much endgame pl pvp I've done. It's about the numbers nothing else. U can have your engame pl pvp. I'll pvp in other games that are far more balanced. And as I stated before take factors like dodge out. Not skill but raw math says otherwise. There isn't anything u can tell me that my calculator hasn't already.

On the contrary, I see your point perfectly.

I've got a pretty strong opinion on the matter. So do you. But the difference is, I've seen things in practice in endgame PvP. So has Apollo. You won't even try it and insist that you are correct.

You can't take factors like dodge out. Not in practice. For your theoretical exercise, yes. But you'll have to accept that your theoretical exercise won't produce any data usable for any real game. And you have to account for other factors, such as GCD, ping, player reaction time, and the possibility that the player will select the wrong skill. While I firmly agree that PvP is totally unbalanced right now, you're gonna find that there is some degree of imbalance (although generally not this extreme as in PL right now) in any MMO. Fundamentally, there will be classes that are stronger and weaker against other classes in any MMO. It's part of any game mechanic.

Skill is dominant. If skill was not dominant, then there'd be little point in playing PvE or PvP. If you don't believe me, take 2 players. One has 100,000 kills without an elixir. One has no kills or experience. Who will do better, assuming that they both had the same gear and build? Theoretically yes, their maximum potential damage and survivability is the same. In practice, you tell me who will vastly outperform the other.

[Whirlzap]

Thing I don't get is why these threads keep getting made?
At this rate, I wouldn't be so surprised to see a Founder's Helm Rant Thread from the Twink Population soon...

[Whirlzap]

On the contrary, I see your point perfectly.

I've got a pretty strong opinion on the matter. So do you. But the difference is, I've seen things in practice in endgame PvP. So has Apollo. You won't even try it and insist that you are correct.

You can't take factors like dodge out. Not in practice. For your theoretical exercise, yes. But you'll have to accept that your theoretical exercise won't produce any data usable for any real game. And you have to account for other factors, such as GCD, ping, player reaction time, and the possibility that the player will select the wrong skill. While I firmly agree that PvP is totally unbalanced right now, you're gonna find that there is some degree of imbalance (although generally not this extreme as in PL right now) in any MMO. Fundamentally, there will be classes that are stronger and weaker against other classes in any MMO. It's part of any game mechanic.

Skill is dominant. If skill was not dominant, then there'd be little point in playing PvE or PvP.

But Mr. 4x Combo Thrasher says he's better than skill.

[WhoIsThis]

But Mr. 4x Combo Thrasher says he's better than skill.

I agree ... the 4X has unbalanced the game and has caused a thorough de-skilling of PvE. But consider what the 4X is. It is the equal of upgrading like 30 levels of gear above you. At that point, it becomes so unbalanced that yes, gear would trump skill to some extent. That said, I once saw a player that played so poorly that I managed to out-dps them completely unbuffed while they were in 4X. =

A real in game PvP example of this is Angel gear vs Mega Mage/Enchanted, Custom/Raid Roach, or Fury/Fortified. Totally unbalanced for PvP. Sadly there are players out there farming kills and ruining the experience of others with the Angel sets.


But I'll leave you with this question - who does more damage, if gear and build are the same - a skilled player using the 4X or an unskilled player using that same 4X?

[Rockxout]

Math says there is a clear disadvantage from the start. New scenario. Two players equal skill same ping same rotation no crits or dodge. One elite vanities one without. Who wins? It's alright though I hear what you are saying too I understand where you are coming from. Like I said since 85 I been playing video games so there isn't anything new in pl pvp endgame from any other video games. So u trying to puff ur chest up and say because u play pl pvp endgame more you are right? It's cool I hear you I'm a noob that can't play so my point is invalid. Cool I'll move along sorry to have taken up ur time. Peace.

[WhoIsThis]

Math says there is a clear disadvantage from the start. New scenario. Two players equal skill same ping same rotation no crits or dodge. One elite vanities one without. Who wins? It's alright though I hear what you are saying too I understand where you are coming from. Like I said since 85 I been playing video games so there isn't anything new in pl pvp endgame from any other video games. So u trying to puff ur chest up and say because u play pl pvp endgame more you are right? It's cool I hear you I'm a noob that can't play so my point is invalid. Cool I'll move along sorry to have taken up ur time. Peace.

Who wins? I'd say around 48-52% to at most 45%-55% (probably not and closer to the 48/52) for the vanity player, if your hypothetical scenario was correct. I recommend that you research how big a buff the vanity sets give. Then compare it to how much stats the Angel sets or crafted 70 sets give. The vanity sets you're going to find do not offer a significant advantage.

But the thing is, you say same rotation, and same ping. Does that ever happen? No crit or dodge? These are basic game mechanics that you are assuming don't exist.

And if I am puffing my chest as you would say about pvp, you are telling me that you never playing this game's endgame PvP, but playing other games since 1985 gives you superior credibility. I have played other MMOs. In fact, I am an active progression raider in WoW. No 2 MMOs are the same. While individual concepts may be similar, such as hp being the amount of life available, crits are usually (but not always) double base damage, no 2 MMOs have exactly the same mechanics. And in every MMO, if you put an unskilled opponent against an opponent with the same or slightly better gear, but much better skill, that better skilled opponent is going to dominate, regardless of whether you take away the gear advantage or not.

On that note, I suppose that you could argue that in this respect, it doesn't matter if the vanity bonus was taken away or not.

[WhoIsThis]

Lol - a bit of tunnel vision on my part. I didn't respond to the OP's original complaint. Let's examine these.

Many people insists that the past elite vanities' bonus on stats is ok cuz they earned em. Listen. What about people who did same thing like in past vanity set to earn the new elite vanitiy set? They even spent more platinum, more time and effort.

In order to get from level 70 to 71, you're looking at perhaps 12 hours of farming Sandbar Lagoon on the 4x. Assuming about 8.3k of xp per hour, that worked out to around 12 hours. Lets just say 13 for the sake of conservatism. That works out to 13 x 36 plat (30 if you buy on sale) = 468 plat over 12 or 13 hours. Less if you go into a group with all elixir users (not hard to find these days).

In order to get to from level 55 to 56, it took 83,840 xp and this was before platinum elixirs ever existed. In those days, you could buy a 1,500 gold elixir 2x elixir, a cheaper 1.5x elixir, or a 6,000 gold 3x elixir and if you died, you lost your elixir. I recall that it cost well over a million gold using the 2x elixir and even that took dozens of hours. Even if you bought the 3x, you're looking at quite a bit of time.

More effort in terms of time spent? Definitely not. And 1,500 gold in those days was a lot harder to get than it is today. More plat? Only if you choose to buy plat.

But now, what dev is saying is that we dont get the bonus in stats lol. LOL. Access to ELITE dungeon?? ha.. We cant even join parties in elite dungeon if we dont have elixir or good equipments. And obviously, we dont earn gold in elite dungeon much, but other maps like sandbar lagoon.

STS did not impose any gear limits. It's other players that are booting you not STS. If you want to run an elite dungeon without proper gear, then run with friends who won't boot. Mind you, we probably would see the OP in such a case complaining about the difficulty level of that dungeon.

Also, another discussion. I feel cheated in MFA lol. Do u know how many people expected stat bonus on equipping mfa and monarch helm? If they are not supposed to give any bonus in stats, STS should have announced it. It is very rude and bizzare to say "they are not for set. 71,76,81 vanity item is set". So what was the platinum we spent for mfa? lol Appearance? I would not spend like 400 plat for that cool appearance lol. Angel gears? We can just spend $50 bucks and save 800 plat for new thrasher parties in humania. No need to farm for MFA. I feel cautious why people do not fight with STS on this issue. But I think monarch and MFA should also give bonus in stats, or else, it means STS fooled us.

There was never an announcement made that any vanity set bonus was guaranteed 100% if you leveled to 71. You made the decision to do so on the assumption (which proved incorrect and which you are now venting about) and spent the plat.

Plus, dear to the players who already have past elite vanity set, why are u guys behaving so cheap and dirty in letting new elite players get bonus in stats with new elite vanity set? I cant believe u guys want that special bonus only on u. People must be able to earn those bonus by farming for elite vanities. How can u guys insist that new vanity set should not give bonus in stats? Lol. Thats very SELFISH thing to do as a old, elite, player.
(Sorry to players who insists that new elite vanity set should have bonus in stats or bonus in stats in past vanity set should be removed even though already have past vanity set)

STS made that decision. Not us. Although they did say that when the vanity for the 56 would be truly special (and form a set) when the Sewers was endgame content, and in that respect, I do believe that they have an obligation to honor that promise. In that respect, the do have some obligation to keep the vanity sets for the 56, 61, and 66 the way that they are. There are no posts regarding that for the 71. If you find one, link it to me.

If you want a quote from the devs say that they will keep the 56 bonus indefintely, btw:

• Added new crafted legendary Demonic Glyph items
• Streamlined game play user interface
• Added the Spacetime Nexus, for all things Spacetime!
• The Continue button in the lobby will now take you to whatever PvE dungeon you were in last.
• Completing the last dungeon of the previous campaign will put you in the first dungeon of the following campaign.
• The Fallen Prince in Nuri's will now swap an old Crown of Persistence for a vanity Crown of Persistence.
• Wearing the vanity Crown of Persistence with the Shield of the Hallows grants an item set bonus.
• The Crown of Persistence and Shield of the Hallows will also be used for future set bonuses when worn with elite items from future campaigns. The more items collected the better the set bonuses.
• Beckon skill description will now display damage values for different ranks.
• The name generator should now attempt to generate shorter names and no longer generates names that fail the content filter
• Renamed a few of the items that are crafting components with their level until the next client update where they can be part of the UI
• Updated Deal of the Day screens
• IMPORTANT NOTICE regarding the Forest Haven Forge: Burke the Blacksmith's DAILY crafting quests are currently undergoing maintenance and are temporarily unavailable. This means that the following repeatable quests given through NPC Burke the Blacksmith in Forest Haven Towne are currently DISABLED and scheduled to return in a few weeks:

• "Dead Threads"
• "Da Craftin' Code"
• "Lucky Leather"
• "Obvious Troll"
• "Weak Links"
• "My Plate is Empty"
• "Crystal Skull"

On that note, none of the oldies that you so accuse have "insisted' that the level 71 set not give any vanity bonuses.

That said, as another poster has pointed out, this game wouldn't be here if it weren't for the oldies that you hold in such contempt and it certainly would never have become the revenue stream for STS it is without their support.

[Arsenal]

"Why is he a lawyer and im a (insert inferior job here)? Well thats not fair. God give me more money." thats basically the kinda story im getting from this.