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[JaytB]

Ok honestly, the way this game is going, does pve stats make a difference when everyone uses an elixir? I think not. Removing points out of dodge won't effect pve whether you use elixir or not anyway. I can tank with my mage and he has only 11 dodge(without str set). So this is a invalid argument. Just my two cents.

First of all, not everyone uses elixers. Join some random pugs if you have doubt. Assuming everyone uses elixers and base your gears' stats on that? If that's what you're saying, then I utterly disagree.

Second, what's the point of leveling to a new cap if its items aren't way better in every aspect than previous capped items? Especially with mobs/bosses hitting harder and harder. The only reason me and many others look forward to new caps is so we can make our characters stronger and stronger. Isn't that how an MMO should be? The higher you level, the stronger you get?

You might be able to tank a tiny group of mobs unpotted while your magic shield is up, but did u ever try and run as a staff mage? Or have you tried running unpotted as a bird with recurve? If an enemy as much as looks at you, you'd drop dead. And then I'm not even talking about boss fights. Fact is, mages and birds are the same or even weaker as compared to previous caps, if speaking about defence. Enemies and bosses hit way harder. So, please explain me what, according to you, makes my argument for better protection invalid?

Maybe STS should make separate stats for PvP and PvE. This way, us PvE'ers would be happy and the PvP'ers could stop complaining as they do with every new cap.

[Seminole]

First of all, not everyone uses elixers. Join some random pugs if you have doubt. Assuming everyone uses elixers and base your gears' stats on that? If that's what you're saying, then I utterly disagree.

Second, what's the point of leveling to a new cap if its items aren't way better in every aspect than previous capped items? Especially with mobs/bosses hitting harder and harder. The only reason me and many others look forward to new caps is so we can make our characters stronger and stronger. Isn't that how an MMO should be? The higher you level, the stronger you get?

You might be able to tank a tiny group of mobs unpotted while your magic shield is up, but did u ever try and run as a staff mage? Or have you tried running unpotted as a bird with recurve? If an enemy as much as looks at you, you'd drop dead. And then I'm not even talking about boss fights. Fact is, mages and birds are the same or even weaker as compared to previous caps, if speaking about defence. Enemies and bosses hit way harder. So, please explain me what, according to you, makes my argument for better protection invalid?

Maybe STS should make separate stats for PvP and PvE. This way, us PvE'ers would be happy and the PvP'ers could stop complaining as they do with every new cap.

Elixirs is the new era. everyone uses them. Pve is not what it used to be.

The problem with getting stronger every new cap is that their is no cap to dodge, crit. Once you hit more then 80 dodge, it becomes completely ludacris. Never in history of any popular mmorpg has any class been able to go over 80 dodge. If your telling me that you can't survive unless you have 80 dodge I'll tell you that your either a bad player, or have a real bad team. On top of that, your crit is also getting stronger and stronger making you not only a dodge machine but also a damage machine.

Now I'm telling you fully buffed, even as a staff Mage, I can tank pretty good with a great team. That's only with 8 dodge. We are talking about only removing maybe 10 dodge out of the 80+ dodge a bear has, or the 50 dodge a mage has in a str set. In my opinion this would in no way effect pve the way it is now. One has to be reasonable when considering stats. Having 75-81 darn dodge is unreasonable by far, especially considering the fact we are in an elixir era.

[Seminole]

Just joined 10 random games. in each game at least 3/4 players was running with some sort of elixir. Thus further proving my point.

[JaytB]

Elixirs is the new era. everyone uses them. Pve is not what it used to be.

The problem with getting stronger every new cap is that their is no cap to dodge, crit. Once you hit more then 80 dodge, it becomes completely ludacris. Never in history of any popular mmorpg has any class been able to go over 80 dodge. If your telling me that you can't survive unless you have 80 dodge I'll tell you that your either a bad player, or have a real bad team. On top of that, your crit is also getting stronger and stronger making you not only a dodge machine but also a damage machine.

Now I'm telling you fully buffed, even as a staff Mage, I can tank pretty good with a great team. That's only with 8 dodge. We are talking about only removing maybe 10 dodge out of the 80+ dodge a bear has, or the 50 dodge a mage has in a str set. In my opinion this would in no way effect pve the way it is now. One has to be reasonable when considering stats. Having so much darn dodge is unreasonable by far.

If you actually read my previous posts in this topic, you'd know I never even talked about dodge lol. I mentioned armor and/or health, so I'm not sure how you try and make my comments all about dodge O.o

And you can 'tank' blacksmoke levels as an unpotted staff mage? This just made me LOL really hard. Don't get me wrong, there's always the chance that you're just infinitely better than me in PvE. If that's the case, I'd be the first to admit it. Maybe we could meet in game, so I could record a video about it. This way we could all learn from you on how to successfully tank as an unpotted staff mage, because I haven't met one in game yet and am always up to learn new things. Let me know if and when you're up for it (:

[Seminole]

If you actually read my previous posts in this topic, you'd know I never even talked about dodge lol. I mentioned armor and/or health, so I'm not sure how you try and make my comments all about dodge O.o

And you can 'tank' blacksmoke levels as an unpotted staff mage? This just made me LOL really hard. Don't get me wrong, there's always the chance that you're just infinitely better than me in PvE. If that's the case, I'd be the first to admit it. Maybe we could meet in game, so I could record a video about it. This way we could all learn from you on how to successfully tank as an unpotted staff mage, because I haven't met one in game yet and am always up to learn new things. Let me know if and when you're up for it (:

The issue at hand here is the massive dodge, crit and maybe damage. We are talking about a matter of 10-12 dodge nerf that in my honest opinion will not effect pve.

As for tanking as staff Mage once again, like I said, when I am fully buffed, and a great team, I can tank a group of mobs no problems.

[JaytB]

As for tanking as staff Mage once again, like I said, when I am fully buffed, and a great team, I can tank a group of mobs no problems.

I think you and I have a very different understanding about tanking. Maybe your understanding of tanking is like those bears that beckon/stomp everything all over the place? Tanking to me means staying ahead of the group in order to group enemies together so they a. Stay focussed on you and b. Allow your group to finish them off quickly. It's definitely possible as a mage but, as said, I find it hard to believe you can pull that off as an unpotted staff mage. If I'm wrong (not saying I'm not), and you actually do understand tanking, I'm still up to record that video about it

[Seminole]

I think you and I have a very different understanding about tanking. Maybe your understanding of tanking is like those bears that beckon/stomp everything all over the place? Tanking to me means staying ahead of the group in order to group enemies together so they a. Stay focussed on you and b. Allow your group to finish them off quickly. It's definitely possible as a mage but, as said, I find it hard to believe you can pull that off as an unpotted staff mage. If I'm wrong (not saying I'm not), and you actually do understand tanking, I'm still up to record that video about it

I agree 100% but unfortunately those great tanking days are way behind us. Today the norm is just blasting through maps with elixirs. Anytime I farm is with elixirs and elixir teams. When I'm poor I just leech off people. I don't know anyone who plays without a elixir team where at least one have a elixir on. Especially in the plat dungeons where time is money. I also don't know anyone who would want to go through the slow process of completing a stage at a snail pace aka no elixir team. Hmm that's just my experience ya know? I def feel where your coming from tho.

As for the staff Mage, no in no way can I tank like a bear. But in the instance our tank is behind I take charge, go full buffs into the mobs and try my best to gather them to one corner and deal as much as possible damage. Now like I said maybe I can't do this mob after mob because my buffs run out, but I can do every other group of mobs no problem at all. Also keep in mind that usually two members are elixered up, therefore helping me kill mobs a lot faster thus easier tanking. Remember pvpers pve best. No dought at all in this

[JaytB]

I agree 100% but unfortunately those great tanking days are way behind us. Today the norm is just blasting through maps with elixirs. Anytime I farm is with elixirs and elixir teams. When I'm poor I just leech off people. I don't know anyone who plays without a elixir team where at least one have a elixir on. Especially in the plat dungeons where time is money. I also don't know anyone who would want to go through the slow process of completing a stage at a snail pace aka no elixir. Hmm that's just my experience ya know? I def feel where your coming from tho.

As for the staff Mage, no in no way can I tank like a bear. But in the instance our tank is behind I take charge, go full buffs into the mobs and try my best to gather them to one corner and deal as much as possible damage. Now like I said maybe I can't do this mob after mob because my buffs run out, but I can do every other group of mobs no problem at all. Also keep in mind that usually two members are elixered up, therefore helping me kill mobs a lot faster thus easier tanking

I also totally agree with the elix-generation thing. Heck, I'm potted up most of the time myself. The point I was trying to make is that STS shouldn't design so called 'top' PvE gear that's barely usable without at least some players on an elix. That's why I'm rather for buffing defensive (armor/health) stats of INT and DEX sets as opposed to simply make STR sets weaker.

One other point, higher hit% is supposed to negate dodge to some (small?) extend. That also seems the reason why STS buffed hit% to such ridiculous high numbers. If INT/DEX gear would get better armor and maybe the hit% vs dodge equation would be tweaked, couldn't that make things more balanced for PvP while also benefiting PvE?

[Seminole]

I also totally agree with the elix-generation thing. Heck, I'm potted up most of the time myself. The point I was trying to make is that STS shouldn't design so called 'top' PvE gear that's barely usable without at least some players on an elix. That's why I'm rather for buffing defensive (armor/health) stats of INT and DEX sets as opposed to simply make STR sets weaker.

One other point, higher hit% is supposed to negate dodge to some (small?) extend. That also seems the reason why STS buffed hit% to such ridiculous high numbers. If INT/DEX gear would get better armor and maybe the hit% vs dodge equation would be tweaked, couldn't that make things more balanced for PvP while also benefiting PvE?

Hmmm as I was taught, hit percent does not matter towards dodge. Could be wrong tho.

[JaytB]

Hmmm as I was taught, hit percent does not matter towards dodge. Could be wrong tho.

That's what I always thought too, but several very knowledgeable people convinced me otherwise. I did some limited tests about this in the past, cause I didn't believe it at first. I don't have exact numbers, but there's definitely a link between hit% and dodge.

Think about it, why does a bird seem to land a hit more often on a fully buffed bear as compared to mages? At least that's what I clearly noticed when I still PvP'ed myself.

[Riccits]

its not even about the hard hitting of the mobs, this would just encourage to have a bear in group, wich is good. really annoing is the big amount of hp and dogde the mobs have.
try to enter a BSM map with a 75 bird with best gear and try to kill 1 mob. after take a 55 bird with custom set and kill 1 mob in a Sewers map. u will c its way easier in Sewers to kill. BUT also if u use a lvl 50 bird with f.e. a void-set and use in Sewers, its pretty underpowered.
What i wanna say is we really dont have the right equip to play smoothly in BSM (and previous 2 caps). Elixiers should be there only to rush through blind, and not to fill up the gap in the equip..

[CrimsonTider]

Class specific gear. Only STS game without it and the reason why most of these arguments only occur in PL.

[MightyMicah]

Class specific gear. Only STS game without it and the reason why most of these arguments only occur in PL.

Amen and amen.

I wish class specific gear would have existed from the start. Seems that they can't do that now, though, without serious problems.

[Ephesius]

Just joined 10 random games. in each game at least 3/4 players was running with some sort of elixir. Thus further proving my point.

Do you mean daily elixer I don't use elix because I don't have the plat for to buy it. Devs should make the drop rates higher so newcomers can atleast afford the.uncrafted gear so they dont get complelty owned by a rich people. I seen a 76 in humania and 65 gear in pvp and people rushed him cause of that and obviously i killed the rushers no prob

[FluffNStuff]

I think part of the problem is the move toward offensive/defensive sets. I have pretty much given up on the bow set for PVE because even WITH elixirs I am getting shot to hell. Birds really need dodge on that set as 3X the measly armor it provides is still below the average damage of BSM boss shots. I am currently wearing a combo of Angel Talon/ Shield and other gear while working toward the full defensive crafted set ~just~ to try to stay alive for an entire Thrasher Eruption run.

[JaytB]

I think part of the problem is the move toward offensive/defensive sets. I have pretty much given up on the bow set for PVE because even WITH elixirs I am getting shot to hell. Birds really need dodge on that set as 3X the measly armor it provides is still below the average damage of BSM boss shots. I am currently wearing a combo of Angel Talon/ Shield and other gear while working toward the full defensive crafted set ~just~ to try to stay alive for an entire Thrasher Eruption run.

Exactly as I was saying in my previous posts. Birds especially need some sort of defensive buff for their recurve set. If a bird needs to switch to a talon to survive, even on elixirs, there's something seriously wrong. It kind of defeats the purpose of being a bird if you'd have to run around in defensive gear just to be able to stay alive IMO.

As also said in previous posts, what doesn't make sense to me is that mages (especially staff mages) and (bow) birds, didn't get a defensive buff as compared to previous level caps. How are they supposed to survive when enemies hit harder, but with almost identical (or even less!) defensive stats?

[XghostzX]

Solution: let our brilliant players fix the stats so they're suitable/balanced for PvE and PvP...

[Everyone'sFavMage]

^^^