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[JaytB]

Techno, personally I think you did a great job on those rings.

The only thing I don't completely get are the stats of the new crafted items. True, defensive/offensive stats have been boosted a bit but, for example, for mages they are actually worse than they were last lvl cap. Birds recurve sets have about the same protection of last campaign. With harder hitting enemies and bosses and higher level gear, aren't the latest sets supposed to offer at least some better protection compared to previous caps? It has almost become impossible to run a dungeon successful without any elix because of the weak defensive stats of this lvl cap. Dmg has been buffed up considerable though, although not so much if you compare the amount of dmg needed to kill of simple mobs.

Is there a reasoning behind the weak defensive upgrades? Or is it assumed everyone just pots up and run through dungeons that way?

[Techno Email]

Techno, personally I think you did a great job on those rings.

The only thing I don't completely get are the stats of the new crafted items. True, defensive/offensive stats have been boosted a bit but, for example, for mages they are actually worse than they were last lvl cap. Birds recurve sets have about the same protection of last campaign. With harder hitting enemies and bosses and higher level gear, aren't the latest sets supposed to offer at least some better protection compared to previous caps? It has almost become impossible to run a dungeon successful without any elix because of the weak defensive stats of this lvl cap. Dmg has been buffed up considerable though, although not so much if you compare the amount of dmg needed to kill of simple mobs.

Is there a reasoning behind the weak defensive upgrades? Or is it assumed everyone just pots up and run through dungeons that way?

Thanks! I'm definitely reading the various threads y'all have going about the set bonuses. I have to make small changes, a little bit at a time to address these changes, so that I can tune the knob back if it doesn't fix the problem or makes the problem worse. So, I appreciate the continued feedback on the high-end gear sets. The changes to the bonuses was the first small change in what I expect to be many (small changes) in an attempt to improve end-game balance. There are many moving parts, so I decided to start here.

The lack of significant Dodge stat's on Enchantresses and (less-so) Archers, was in reaction to feedback about balance issues caused by dodge on Enchantress gear. I tuned back dodge on those sets, so folks went after the Strength gear instead...to the get the Dodge. Well, I didn't see that coming.

With the recent crafted set bonus changes, I added a bit of dodge to the archer tank set bonus, and put significant chunks of points into pure damage and defense stat's like armor and damage.

The one-hitting/two-hitting in PVP is pretty painful. You have to be very aware of what each of your skills does, and pay close attention to their cool downs to counter that. This isn't exactly the first thing on your mind when an Archer comes around the corner and wipes 90% of your health - "Darn, forgot to use Evade," or "Here he comes! Run, till my Evade is done cooling down!" Yeah, no.

So, what's next? It looks like the Enchantresses and Archers are still feeling weak unless they spec. Strength and wear Strength armor. I'm going to continue to tweak this balance. I'm following your threads and taking constructive feedback into account. Just keep in mind, this balance process will involve little changes (for now) so I can get a good feel for which knobs need turning.

So far, I'm agreeing with this feedback with regards to the Underworld sets:
1. Extra HIT%? No thanks, I'd prefer extra damage on my Archer's DPS set.
2. Can I get some armor and health please?
3. DPS output is better than people think. FYI - here's why:

- Weapon DPS appears higher because of the weapon's attack speed, however, this doesn't factor in the DPS output of your abilities.

- Most likely my next change, will be #1.

- I'm still trying to figure out if there is a balanced way to add some armor or health to the other classes gear sets (#2).

-I'd consider tweaking the weapon attack speed to make the DPS on the damage sets look better, but I think the DPS is actually good, it just doesn't appear to be so due to #3.

[Energizeric]

-I'd consider tweaking the weapon attack speed to make the DPS on the damage sets look better, but I think the DPS is actually good, it just doesn't appear to be so due to #3.

The easiest way to see the problem here is just look at the 2h weapon prices in the CS. Other than the recurve for birds, nobody seems to want the staff or blade. I think the main reason no bears are using the blade is the DPS is so much lower than with the scythe. One would normally think the DPS would be higher on the damage set, but in this case there seems to be no advantage to using the blade since the scythe offers both better armor and better dps, with only slightly less dmg. And most other stats such as crit, dodge, and health regen are all better with the scythe. I know this is the way it has traditionally been in PL, but this is the reason why you rarely see anyone using a 2h weapon except birds who get the benefit of longer range for their attacks.

[Energizeric]

As for your comments about the dragon rings, I was a little disappointed about not being able to use a dragon ring with my ring of valiance. As you said, those who previously used a plat ring are covered by the increased stats of the dragon bonus which is better than most plat rings. And those with ring of valiant glory can combine their rings. So it's only those with ring of valiance who have lost out. But at least it's not a permanent loss, as I can regain my dragon bonus when I reach 81. I just wish their was some way to have it now. I did post a few suggestions in the general forum (here is the thread -- read #1 & #2), and the one about crafting with ring of valiance seems rather easy to implement (about having the fallen prince upgrade the combo ring later on). Please do take a look at that.

Also, please consider making some kind of achievement based title for those who craft all the dragon sets on one toon (i.e. "Dragon Master" or something similar). I think this will further help to keep demand there for dragon items, and will give an even more exclusive title than "true legend" -- something for us end-gamers to work towards. Because with the current system there really doesn't seem to be any reason to craft more than one dragon set with the same toon.

[JaytB]

Thanks! I'm definitely reading the various threads y'all have going about the set bonuses. I have to make small changes, a little bit at a time to address these changes, so that I can tune the knob back if it doesn't fix the problem or makes the problem worse. So, I appreciate the continued feedback on the high-end gear sets. The changes to the bonuses was the first small change in what I expect to be many (small changes) in an attempt to improve end-game balance. There are many moving parts, so I decided to start here.

The lack of significant Dodge stat's on Enchantresses and (less-so) Archers, was in reaction to feedback about balance issues caused by dodge on Enchantress gear. I tuned back dodge on those sets, so folks went after the Strength gear instead...to the get the Dodge. Well, I didn't see that coming.

With the recent crafted set bonus changes, I added a bit of dodge to the archer tank set bonus, and put significant chunks of points into pure damage and defense stat's like armor and damage.

The one-hitting/two-hitting in PVP is pretty painful. You have to be very aware of what each of your skills does, and pay close attention to their cool downs to counter that. This isn't exactly the first thing on your mind when an Archer comes around the corner and wipes 90% of your health - "Darn, forgot to use Evade," or "Here he comes! Run, till my Evade is done cooling down!" Yeah, no.

So, what's next? It looks like the Enchantresses and Archers are still feeling weak unless they spec. Strength and wear Strength armor. I'm going to continue to tweak this balance. I'm following your threads and taking constructive feedback into account. Just keep in mind, this balance process will involve little changes (for now) so I can get a good feel for which knobs need turning.

So far, I'm agreeing with this feedback with regards to the Underworld sets:
1. Extra HIT%? No thanks, I'd prefer extra damage on my Archer's DPS set.
2. Can I get some armor and health please?
3. DPS output is better than people think. FYI - here's why:

- Weapon DPS appears higher because of the weapon's attack speed, however, this doesn't factor in the DPS output of your abilities.

- Most likely my next change, will be #1.

- I'm still trying to figure out if there is a balanced way to add some armor or health to the other classes gear sets (#2).

-I'd consider tweaking the weapon attack speed to make the DPS on the damage sets look better, but I think the DPS is actually good, it just doesn't appear to be so due to #3.

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

I can understand that it must be a really difficult task to try and balance sets for both PvE and PvP and am happy to hear that you're reading the feedback that is given on this forums.

Maybe it's time for more drastic measures, like class specific gear for example (as suggested by Crimsontider in another thread). Or maybe some work needs to be done on the impact of hit% vs dodge (higher hit negating part of that dodge). Armor and/or health also seem like a viable option to play around with. Or maybe even separate the PvP and PvE stats. Maybe take a look at sewer gear, somehow every class stood their chance even with the high variety of different usable gear (even oranges, greens and purples had their use and still it felt balanced somewhat). But yeah, I agree it doesn't seem like there'll be an easy solution that would just balance things out. Especially when trying to keep both PvE'ers and PvP'ers happy.

I can only speak from a PvE point of view when saying that any latest-top-of-the-bill gear should at least be stronger in both defensive and offensive stats as compared to gear from 1 or 2 caps ago. Especially with enemies hitting harder and being tougher to kill.

All in all, personally I think you did a great job so far. You brought us Elite weapons with those wacky procs, a (really tough) quest as preview for Blacksmoke, new craftable rings and also already tweaked the stats of crafted gear in the latest campaign.

I'm sure you'll tackle the age old 'this and that is OP' eventually

[FluffNStuff]

- Most likely my next change, will be #1.

- I'm still trying to figure out if there is a balanced way to add some armor or health to the other classes gear sets (#2).

-I'd consider tweaking the weapon attack speed to make the DPS on the damage sets look better, but I think the DPS is actually good, it just doesn't appear to be so due to #3.

Couple thoughts from PvE/historian perspective. You mentioned crit being overpowered previously requiring a massive nerf, but that was because it was at 91% for a Level 45. We are 30 levels further, so I think it is safe to let us go up a little. As to survivability, the bow bird is having a lot of trouble with that without the dodge. I know you love keeping the hot side hot and the cold side cold, so perhaps some of the hit on the equip could be converted to dodge when crafted. This way it would not have to be a bonus. The lowered hit percentage on the equipment would also make it less desirable for other classes who are not pure dex.

[wvhills]

techno, I love that ur listening. Maybe u should try out pvp a lot more? Honestly, forseeing players switching to str to get dodge was a no brainer, lol.
I agree with jay and crim and absolutepally, the only way to balance things in pvp is class specific gear.

you said, "The one-hitting/two-hitting in PVP is pretty painful. You have to be very aware of what each of your skills does, and pay close attention to their cool downs to counter that. This isn't exactly the first thing on your mind when an Archer comes around the corner and wipes 90% of your health - "Darn, forgot to use Evade," or "Here he comes! Run, till my Evade is done cooling down!"

actually, stuff like this IS in the front of 90% of pvpers. We are well aware of what our skills do. Also, why would we want extra hit%? Once again, I appreciate that u care and are trying but how is 200% hit any better than 190%?

As far as:
"So far, I'm agreeing with this feedback with regards to the Underworld sets:
1. Extra HIT%? No thanks, I'd prefer extra damage on my Archer's DPS set.
2. Can I get some armor and health please?
3. DPS output is better than people think. FYI - here's why:"

Well, as a level 75 bird I can tell you that I don't want more damage. I want dodge, we all want dodge. My blast shot damage is 600 as it is. Lol. Adding damage will only increase the one and two shot fights.

Honestly, what u have now isn't that bad if u gear were class specific. I think everything would be pretty even. It just becomes unbalanced when a mage or bird goes str.

[wvhills]

techno, I love that ur listening. Maybe u should try out pvp a lot more? Honestly, forseeing players switching to str to get dodge was a no brainer, lol.
I agree with jay and crim and absolutepally, the only way to balance things in pvp is class specific gear.

you said, "The one-hitting/two-hitting in PVP is pretty painful. You have to be very aware of what each of your skills does, and pay close attention to their cool downs to counter that. This isn't exactly the first thing on your mind when an Archer comes around the corner and wipes 90% of your health - "Darn, forgot to use Evade," or "Here he comes! Run, till my Evade is done cooling down!"

actually, stuff like this IS in the front of 90% of pvpers. We are well aware of what our skills do. Also, why would we want extra hit%? Once again, I appreciate that u care and are trying but how is 200% hit any better than 190%?

As far as:
"So far, I'm agreeing with this feedback with regards to the Underworld sets:
1. Extra HIT%? No thanks, I'd prefer extra damage on my Archer's DPS set.
2. Can I get some armor and health please?
3. DPS output is better than people think. FYI - here's why:"

Well, as a level 75 bird I can tell you that I don't want more damage. I want dodge, we all want dodge. My blast shot damage is 600 as it is. Lol. Adding damage will only increase the one and two shot fights.

Honestly, what u have now isn't that bad if u gear were class specific. I think everything would be pretty even. It just becomes unbalanced when a mage or bird goes str.

[Chopper]

I also give props and kudos to you Techno for listening to the comments raised!!

I will be most pleased when the bird set hit% bumps go to more useful stats like dodge, damage, health or armour. Anything is better than wasting them on hit%.
Yes, dodge is probably the most useful, but i'd be happy with some significant bump in damage instead of hit% too. Being able to deliver massive damage can offset somewhat how weak the bird is in defending itself.

[Energizeric]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does a hit % of 200% really do for you? I thought it meant that it is unaffected by a dodge% of up to 50%. I'm not sure if it works like that, but it SHOULD work like that. They should multiply, so 200% x 50% = 100%, 200% - 100% = 100%. And for example, if dodge is 60%, then 200% x 60% = 120%, 200% - 120% = 80% (your chance of landing a hit). If higher hit % does not reduce the dodge %, then what exactly does it do?

[Chopper]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does a hit % of 200% really do for you? I thought it meant that it is unaffected by a dodge% of up to 50%. I'm not sure if it works like that, but it SHOULD work like that. They should multiply, so 200% x 50% = 100%, 200% - 100% = 100%. If higher hit % does not reduce the dodge %, then what exactly does it do?

as far as i know, NADA, which is why people (like me) are seeing any bump to hit % as useless. With a hit % of 200%, I should be able to fire off TWO arrows at once LOL

[FluffNStuff]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does a hit % of 200% really do for you? I thought it meant that it is unaffected by a dodge% of up to 50%. I'm not sure if it works like that, but it SHOULD work like that. They should multiply, so 200% x 50% = 100%, 200% - 100% = 100%. And for example, if dodge is 60%, then 200% x 60% = 120%, 200% - 120% = 80% (your chance of landing a hit). If higher hit % does not reduce the dodge %, then what exactly does it do?

Hit percent does not reduce dodge, but there is a reason to go over a 100 which is to counter debuffs. But 200 is crazy. Heck, over 140 is over kill, and I already have 130 Naked. Add to that the built in hit from dex on the equipment and birds really don't need ~any~ hit on their items.

[Energizeric]

Hit % should directly counter dodge. It's just plain old logic. Someone who has better aim (hit %) has a better chance of hitting the target that is trying to dodge the hit. If it doesn't already work that way, they should change it.

[JaytB]

Hit percent does not reduce dodge, but there is a reason to go over a 100 which is to counter debuffs. But 200 is crazy. Heck, over 140 is over kill, and I already have 130 Naked. Add to that the built in hit from dex on the equipment and birds really don't need ~any~ hit on their items.

Actually it supposedly does reduce dodge, just not by a lot. I had this same discussion in the past because I didn't believe hit had any effect on dodge. But it turned out I was wrong. Can't give you exact numbers though, but can try and find that discussion somewhere if I have some more time.

[Techno Email]

As for your comments about the dragon rings, I was a little disappointed about not being able to use a dragon ring with my ring of valiance. As you said, those who previously used a plat ring are covered by the increased stats of the dragon bonus which is better than most plat rings. And those with ring of valiant glory can combine their rings. So it's only those with ring of valiance who have lost out. But at least it's not a permanent loss, as I can regain my dragon bonus when I reach 81. I just wish their was some way to have it now. I did post a few suggestions in the general forum (here is the thread -- read #1 & #2), and the one about crafting with ring of valiance seems rather easy to implement (about having the fallen prince upgrade the combo ring later on). Please do take a look at that.

Also, please consider making some kind of achievement based title for those who craft all the dragon sets on one toon (i.e. "Dragon Master" or something similar). I think this will further help to keep demand there for dragon items, and will give an even more exclusive title than "true legend" -- something for us end-gamers to work towards. Because with the current system there really doesn't seem to be any reason to craft more than one dragon set with the same toon.

Ooh, I like the achievement/title idea! I'll check out your posts. Thanks!

[Techno Email]

Thanks for the detailed feedback!

I can understand that it must be a really difficult task to try and balance sets for both PvE and PvP and am happy to hear that you're reading the feedback that is given on this forums.

Maybe it's time for more drastic measures, like class specific gear for example (as suggested by Crimsontider in another thread). Or maybe some work needs to be done on the impact of hit% vs dodge (higher hit negating part of that dodge). Armor and/or health also seem like a viable option to play around with. Or maybe even separate the PvP and PvE stats. Maybe take a look at sewer gear, somehow every class stood their chance even with the high variety of different usable gear (even oranges, greens and purples had their use and still it felt balanced somewhat). But yeah, I agree it doesn't seem like there'll be an easy solution that would just balance things out. Especially when trying to keep both PvE'ers and PvP'ers happy.

I can only speak from a PvE point of view when saying that any latest-top-of-the-bill gear should at least be stronger in both defensive and offensive stats as compared to gear from 1 or 2 caps ago. Especially with enemies hitting harder and being tougher to kill.

All in all, personally I think you did a great job so far. You brought us Elite weapons with those wacky procs, a (really tough) quest as preview for Blacksmoke, new craftable rings and also already tweaked the stats of crafted gear in the latest campaign.

I'm sure you'll tackle the age old 'this and that is OP' eventually

We are considering some drastic changes...MUAHAHAHAHAHA - oh, goodness...and I think you guys will LOVE IT!!! In the meantime, I think there is a way to move the needle a little closer to the middle. Thanks for the awesome feedback!

[Techno Email]

AAhhhh!!! This is a great discussion!! I'm a stat nerd, so it's interesting to dig into this stuff. I have some top secret nobs that I can turn...I won't do it yet, because they are very big nobs, and as I said before, I'm going to make little tweaks for now. However, all of this info is great. As you must assume, I put all these stat's on the gear, so I can change them too. I'd like to make some other tweaks to the bonuses, put those out, and if I can find some time, I can try to reduce some of the hit on the Dex gear and distribute it elsewhere.

We have some really exciting stuff planned for the holidays, that will A. be awesome, B. blow your minds, and C. be totally crazy. I'll be focused on that until it comes out, but I'd like to make get these tweaks in in the meantime so you guys can continue to enjoy yourselves in PVP. WOOT!!!

[FluffNStuff]

AAhhhh!!! This is a great discussion!! I'm a stat nerd, so it's interesting to dig into this stuff. I have some top secret nobs that I can turn...I won't do it yet, because they are very big nobs, and as I said before, I'm going to make little tweaks for now. However, all of this info is great. As you must assume, I put all these stat's on the gear, so I can change them too. I'd like to make some other tweaks to the bonuses, put those out, and if I can find some time, I can try to reduce some of the hit on the Dex gear and distribute it elsewhere.

We have some really exciting stuff planned for the holidays, that will A. be awesome, B. blow your minds, and C. be totally crazy. I'll be focused on that until it comes out, but I'd like to make get these tweaks in in the meantime so you guys can continue to enjoy yourselves in PVP. WOOT!!!

Saweeet! We know we can trust you to A. Keep us on our toes and B. Keep raising the bar! So this holiday stuff ... hmmm ... *peers into crystal ball, sees totally twisted warped mind of Techno Email* ... BSM Elite Level with Demon Santa defended by Dragon Reindeer?

[octavos]

We have some really exciting stuff planned for the holidays, that will A. be awesome, B. blow your minds, and C. be totally crazy. I'll be focused on that until it comes out, but I'd like to make get these tweaks in in the meantime so you guys can continue to enjoy yourselves in PVP. WOOT!!!

Will this new content be only for end-game, as it has been for a few updates? (Humania and Mountain) or can the not so-pro-elite with all the nice rings get to play also....I love holiday events :P thats kinda why I was only on for PL...for the events XD

[angeldawn]

Please don't make things class specific. I like dressing up my toon way to much for that!!

But if u have to do something similar, maybe make the set, in this case the crafted str, not have the same stats if worn by a Mage or Bird. Maybe to get the full benefit of a set it has to be worn by that class.