Mega Mage vs. Shadow - Worth It? Advice?

[noneo]

I thought I'd chime in with some skill damage numbers since I have all the sets discussed on my mage.

This is based on a Level 55 pure int mage with level 6 in lightning and firestorm:

Mega Mage w/ Gemstone Wand and Bracer
Lightning: 257-388
Firestorm: 270-383

Shadow Set
Lightning: 218-349
Firestorm: 231-344

Keeper Set w/ Staff
Lightning: 262-390
Firestorm: 274-385

Mega Mage w/ Gemstone Staff
Lightning: 306-434
Firestorm: 318-429

Mega Mage w/ Gem Blast Staff
Lightning: 306-434
Firestorm: 318-429

This is great to have. I'm going to run my numbers again with all the information gathered in this thread and post the results.

EDIT: For the shadow set, did you use staff or wand?

Royce, after looking at this. Have you been using a staff or a wand? Because that would change everything. I based all of my calculations and assumptions off of a gemstone wand with bracer

[Shouja]

Well I should point out that the Shadow Set was with the Glow Stick and the Doll.

The values with the Crystal Staff of Shadows:
Lightning: 233-362
Firestorm: 246-357

[Royce]

I was considering the wand set (which I believe is what is shown above. The MM wand set is way better than the shadow wand set), the shadow staff set is not even worth discussing since it's worse than the keeper staff set
As for the skill damage, note that even a Lowman's set is only 6 points less per skill than MM, and most other BS sets are comperable, which is one reason the Shadow stuff can't stack up to BS gear.

Edit: And if you are going to run another calculation, don't forget the gemstone wand's drain proc that does additional damage agains mobs debuffed by weakness.

[noneo]

Dear good god in heaven, lol. If the skill damage differs between Shadows and Mega Mage by THAT MUCH, then Mega Mage wins, despite its crit value. If the skill damages were closer together, then crit would play a much bigger role - but the differences in skill damage is just enormous.

Mega Mage delivers nearly 5,000 more damage for this skill in 100 hits.

He did do numbers using a wand and doll, when comparing wands, stats are as follows:

Mega Mage w/ Gemstone Wand and Bracer
Lightning: 257-388
Firestorm: 270-383

Shadow Set
Lightning: 218-349
Firestorm: 231-344

In 100 hits (Shadows 25% crit, MM 8% crit):
Shadow = 35375 = 75*283+25*566
MM = 34784 = 92*322+8*645


Shadow still wins..

EDIT: just to clear things up, I have ONLY been discussing the use of a wand with both sets. I know the MM Staff is incredi-awesome in damage.

[noneo]

Edit: And if you are going to run another calculation, don't forget the gemstone wand's drain proc that does additional damage agains mobs debuffed by weakness.

it's on my list of "to do" calculations

[Royce]

Again you have not figured in armor. You need to subtract armor from damage and 2 X armor from Crit damage. Despite all of this, I would still say sustained hits of 40 more damage, multiplied by the many targets the skill hits, would serve you far better than the occasional blast that overkills and wastes it's own damage accompanied by a majority of much weaker hits. PvP the Crit is more important, but for PvE big sustained damage gets the job done faster.

Edit: Just looking at your numbers, I think any reasonable armor value, even as low as 50, would swing things in favor of MM.

Edit 2: In fact the Drained proc alone would give this one to MM. It's basically like an additional attack whenever weakness is active. Edit 3: okay this is skill damage but still if you add in weapon damage too

[Physiologic]

He did do numbers using a wand and doll, when comparing wands, stats are as follows:

Mega Mage w/ Gemstone Wand and Bracer
Lightning: 257-388
Firestorm: 270-383

Shadow Set
Lightning: 218-349
Firestorm: 231-344

In 100 hits (Shadows 25% crit, MM 8% crit):
Shadow = 35375 = 75*283+25*566
MM = 34784 = 92*322+8*645


Shadow still wins..

EDIT: just to clear things up, I have ONLY been discussing the use of a wand with both sets. I know the MM Staff is incredi-awesome in damage.

Again you have not figured in armor. You need to subtract armor from damage and 2 X armor from Crit damage. Despite all of this, I would still say sustained hits of 40 more damage, multiplied by the many targets the skill hits, would serve you far better than the occasional blast that overkills and wastes it's own damage accompanied by a majority of much weaker hits. PvP the Crit is more important, but for PvE big sustained damage gets the job done faster.

Edit: Just looking at your numbers, I think any reasonable armor value, even as low as 50, would swing things in favor of MM.

Hmm, alright I'll take that into account. Enemies in Alien Oasis 2 have an average armor value of 90. I haven't figured out AO3 and BS yet. But let's say it's around ~120 (my educated guess).

In 100 hits (Shadows 25% crit, MM 8% crit):
Shadow = 35375 = 75*(283-120) + 25*(2x(283-120)) = 20375
MM = 34784 = 92*(322-120)+8*(2x(322-120)) = 21816

~1500 damage difference, MM favored. I'd still consider this damage to be negligible on the battle field.

[Royce]

~1500 damage difference, MM favored. I'd still consider this damage to be negligible on the battle field.

The reason I believe the MM set in practice works so much better is, I believe, what I've been saying all along. Comparing damage over the long term has it's uses, but it doesn't account for overkill and things you only find in practice like the fact you can kill pretty much anything with your full rotation of skills even without a Crit with MM damage, and that maximizing sustained regular damage ends up being better in PvE since you waste less of that calculated damage output in overkill.

[Pharcyde]

Well it seems split 50/50.

Theres the half that think skill and base are more important.
Theres the other half that thinks crit and hit are more important.

So instead of arguing each of the points into the ground, lets be productive and test it! Or else this will turn into a filibuster.

Phys - How did you go about testing it? Did you use any buffs/debuffs or did you isolate the firestorm?
Also, do we know how much percent 1 crit equals? So would 25 crit = 25/100 chance to hit a critical hit?
Also, each skill is different, going about testing each skill twice would be 2,400 recorded hits. Why not just make a simpler experiment that would determine which set actually preforms better out on the field, instead of running tests on each skill individually?

[Physiologic]

The reason I believe the MM set in practice works so much better is, I believe, what I've been saying all along. Comparing damage over the long term has it's uses, but it doesn't account for overkill and things you only find in practice like the fact you can kill pretty much anything with your full rotation of skills even without a Crit with MM damage, and that maximizing sustained regular damage ends up being better in PvE since you waste less of that calculated damage output in overkill.

How often are you overkilling, though? Overkill happens just as well as underkill, and that relatively depends on enemy's health as well. I don't know how often a mage overkills compared to how often they underkill in Sewers, but I'll believe you when you say MM is more effective, since you're the mage and I'm an archer

Phys - How did you go about testing it? Did you use any buffs/debuffs or did you isolate the firestorm?

Nope - just simple calculations from the info provided

[Pharcyde]

How often are you overkilling, though? Overkill happens just as well as underkill, and that relatively depends on enemy's health as well. I don't know how often a mage overkills compared to how often they underkill in Sewers, but I'll believe you when you say MM is more effective, since you're the mage and I'm an archer

I think he is referring to 1v1 overkill. I only get overkill when I am hitting enemies close enough for the gem blast splash damage and then when I cast drain life and frost bite on a single enemy.

[Tiliana]

My question is... say you are lvl 51 int mage like me. Do you keep shadow gear until you reach 55 before you drop the massive amount of gold to purchase MM gear and hope you gets some drops on the way? It would be crazy to upgrade at 51, 53, and then 55. Do you buy pieces and lose the set bonus that came with full shadow set? Do you go with cheaper green/orange gear to get you to lvl 55 and then buy in hopes that the prices drop?

I feel like I am a pretty seasoned player and have held my own in the sewers with my shadow set, but I know my armor is lacking and so is my damage in BS.

[bravemenrun]

I would wait to hit 55 to buy the mega mage set. Only because by then prices will most likely drop. I got to 55 with shadow and xp pots. And I still don't want to spend the money on mega. Using bs greens for damage and shadow set for bs grates. keeps it interesting.

[Fatpigwarrior]

id go for mega mage because slight higher armor but all i can say is new sets arent that great

[Royce]

If you're looking at pure damage output alone, a point that shouldn't be missed is that Shadows is really not in the picture at all past level 50. Personally I think the MM damage works better than the shadow Crit, but if you want Crit, Shadows is still not the answer. Once you get to level 51 Flushers oranges are readily avaialble, cheap, and have the damage of MM (minus set bonus damage) with more Crit than Shadows, and Mastermind purps have lower damage than MM but also higher Crit than Shadows and don't entirely sacrifice regen like Flushers does. So the question really becomes do you value damage output and Crit (Flusher/Mastermind) enough to sacrifice the regen, armor and set bonus of MM for it. Personally I don't

[noneo]

Well, I appreciate all of everyone's input and expertise on this subject. I happen to agree with Phar, and think that a test will be the best way of determining exactly how well the sets perform (I'm sure MM will be better, in fact, I would expect it since it is a lvl 55 gear). If anyone wants to help me out, I will probably be on around 11:00 a.m. to 1:00p.m. ish tomorrow (Central Time), let me know. Add featherliker and pm me that you want to do some studies.

Thanks!

[Pharcyde]

Well we already know MM preforms better in every other category. Were just unsure about mob clearing.

So even if MM isn't the best for mob clearing, it still has all the other sets outnumbered 2 to 1 for advantages. I just stress the crit and hit percent point, since I am literally obsessed with max possible damage.

[Yvonnel]

I have a set of flusher and mastermind (both level 53) that I use depending on what I am doing. I use the mastermind when I am in a group that has a couple of mages. I use the flushers when I am the only mage. I plan of farming and buying the MM set when I get to 55. And remember unless you are using a lvl 55 MM set there is no reason not the mix and match sets to get what you are looking for.

Edit: Although like Pharcyde I like seeing those big damage numbers. It is cool to damage pot and see 1000+ crit hit.

[Ayrilana]

Here is a level 56 build with mega mage. I was planning on doing some similar calculations, but you beat me to the punch:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_q...Build%2056.png

Give me a day or so - I will see if I can get the shadow (wand) set pic for posting. I have both; I just lended shadow to a buddy.

Here it is with gem blast and gemstone staff:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_q...Build%2056.png

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_q...Build%2056.png

Thanks! I was about to bother someone about this. Do you notice any significant difference between gem blast and gemstone staffs?

[Pharcyde]

Gem blast is area of damage.

Gem stone is single damage.