***RAWR!!: A Comprehensive Analysis of Strength Sets: AO3 to Humania***

[CrimsonTider]

Crim, you can borrow my 2H Hate sword for your analysis if you like.

That would be awesome! I have to take some new pics anyway. I'll pm you later to work out a time.

[GoodSyntax]

Well written and informative. Great job Crimson!

If you intend to write one for mages, I would be happy to assist!

+1

[CrimsonTider]

Well written and informative. Great job Crimson!

If you intend to write one for mages, I would be happy to assist!

+1

Thank you. I probably won't do one for mages as I don't play that class often. This was more of a "final cry" to make hit% respectabke for bears.

@Necro - I actually found a Hate Battlesword for dirt cheap just now. Thanks for offering tho!

[JaytB]

No more like minded people about the hit% increase and dex skill-dmg decrease.

A full str bear should get at least 100% hit to finally be a valid option in game too.

[CrimsonTider]

No more like minded people about the hit% increase and dex skill-dmg decrease.

A full str bear should get at least 100% hit to finally be a valid option in game too.

Gonna log in tonight and get screenies for skill dmg.

[CrimsonTider]

Finally added a skill damage analysis. Please read so we can discuss further. Thanks to all for the kind words and pms!

[bramer]

Nice job! But, one thing I think you should is the elite lv 71 strength set, so we can see how it is.

[CrimsonTider]

Nice job! But, one thing I think you should is the elite lv 71 strength set, so we can see how it is.

Thank you! The Elite items are limited to weapons and do not contribute to the LvL 70 Crafted Set bonus. Thus, why they were excluded.

[Energizeric]

I'd say wait on the elite weapons. One of the developers said something about adding set bonus for crafted armor & helm with elite weapon. No point in doing analysis now if it needs to be redone in a week or two.

[Phoenixking]

And nice job with this thread

[Rauekat]

Roll Tide! Best guide ever!!

[JaytB]

Finally added a skill damage analysis. Please read so we can discuss further. Thanks to all for the kind words and pms!

First off, sorry for the lack of formatting, I'm posting this from my iPad using tapatalk :/

The first thing I wanted to do when I saw that last stomp dmg comparison vs bow set, was say something like 'but, you'll gain a lot of crit, so also skill dmg in the end'. But then I realized I couldn't point out how much you'd gain.

So, I did a very simple comparison, purely based on skill dmg. Since pure str isn't really an option because of lack of hit%, I compared vs the dual spec 2h sword set.

You got 31 crit with the 2hander, while sand skipper would give a dual spec (160str) bear a healthy 51 crit. That's a whole 20 crit more. But how much more dmg would that mean?

I took minimum and maximum stomp dmg for each set, and calculated the total average dmg your stomp would do. I based it off average dmg of stomp (min+max dmg)/2. I calculated the average dmg over 100 hits with stomp, while critical dmg is calculated as 2x average dmg.

Note that in Belgium a comma (,) is the decimal separator and a point (.) is the thousands separator.

Bow set:
Skill dmg: 369/386
average dmg: 377,5 dmg
Crit: 51%

So, theoretically, when you'd hit an enemy 100 times, that would be 49 X average dmg + 51 (crit) X 2xaverage dmg.

Or 49x377.5 = 18.497,5 dmg
+
51x(2x377.5) = 38.505 dmg

Would make a total of: 57.002,5 dmg


2h sword set:
Skill dmg: 376/398
Average dmg: 387 dmg
31 crit

Or total dmg (following same formula again):
(69x387) + (31X(387x2))= 50.697 dmg

So basically, when purely speaking about skill dmg, you'll gain roughly 12+% by using the bow set, that's on top of the additional range. That's a lot, if you'd ask me, even more so when you're using trashers in your pve grinding sessions.

Auto-attack dmg would more difficult to calculate because we don't know 'true' dps, but that 2H sword has some serious slowmo action against it. And of course again, that range...

So all in all, if you wanted to maximize dmg on a bear, the bow set would be the better choice IMO.

Now, IF STS would make it so that dex adds less skill dmg, and full str would have 100hit with more skill dmg, then I'd say a 2H sword would be more of an option for dmg focussed bears. Although, it's only fair to notice that you do gain 10% dodge and 10 armor with that set, so it does increase survivability. I guess the increase in survivability must come with some cost, in this case dmg.

[Energizeric]

The problem with the bow set on a bear is you cannot effectively use your skills. Yes you can use beckon and stomp, but bears cause the most damage when using the melee skills, and they cannot be used with a bow.

I do have a Tiki Bow set, and while it is fun to use when I'm in a big group, if I have to cause max damage, it is not the way to go.


Edit: Actually the best damage set for a bear is the one not discussed here but is the shanks. With the Shanks set I can tear apart just about any boss (or mobs) much faster than any of the STR gear can. The shanks has the same 51 crit as the bow, but you can use your melee skills with it, plus it's fast and has very high dps. With Rage, your crit jumps to 91, and just about every hit is a double (x2) hit, so you end up hitting harder than when using the STR weapons.

[JaytB]

The problem with the bow set on a bear is you cannot effectively use your skills. Yes you can use beckon and stomp, but bears cause the most damage when using the melee skills, and they cannot be used with a bow.

I'm sorry, but that's not correct. Melee skills (slashes) also work with a bow.

[FluffNStuff]

I'm sorry, but that's not correct. Melee skills (slashes) also work with a bow.

I really hope he means he prefers to not get that close when equipping a bow.

(I hope).

[Energizeric]

I know they work, but just not well. You can't use them when you are at a distance (which is where you are when you are using a bow), and if you are up close, then there is no advantage to having the bow.

I have all 5 non-crafted weapon sets, 1H scimitar/bongo, 2h scimitar, spear, shanks and bow. The STR gear is Humanian & Humanity (depending on which weapon) and the DEX gear is Tiki. I've compared all of these, and without a doubt (it's not even close), I can cause by far the most damage with the shanks whether I am farming low level mobs or boss, or whether I am fighting Tiki God or the Humania mobs. The only reason I usually don't use the shanks is because the armor and dodge is too low and I get killed a lot.

[JaytB]

I know they work, but just not well. You can't use them when you are at a distance (which is where you are when you are using a bow), and if you are up close, then there is no advantage to having the bow.

I have all 5 non-crafted weapon sets, 1H scimitar/bongo, 2h scimitar, spear, shanks and bow. The STR gear is Humanian and the DEX gear is Tiki. I've compared all of these, and without a doubt (it's not even close), I can cause by far the most damage with the shanks whether I am farming low level mobs or boss, or whether I am fighting Tiki God or the Humania mobs. The only reason I usually don't use the shanks is because the armor and dodge is too low and I get killed a lot.

Whether or not range is useful, in the end it's all about dmg and skill dmg when you're talking about an attack bear. As shown in the calculations above, bow set is superior to 2H sword set. Range is just a simple extra, and allows you to grab agro from stray enemies (13m range).

I wonder how the shanks match up vs a bow set though. Maybe you could do the same calculation as I did a couple of posts back. I'd be really curious to see the results. I have tried all (crafted and uncrafted) sets on my bear, except for the shanks set, and bow set did not only seem the most destructive, the numbers confirmed it.

If you want, you can post screenshots of stats (crit) and skill dmg for stomp (without rings or vanities), then I'll calculate it myself. I somehow doubt the numbers are going to be better for shanks as compared to the bow set, but I hope I'm proven wrong so I could finally find a reason to get me some crafted shanks

[Brave Sir Robin]

Great effort.

One thing that I would like to point out is that at levels 60 - 65 there is actually decent equipment that allows you to to put some more points to STR. E.g.

• L.60: Glyph Big Top, +3% hit / piece. This set gives no set bonus, but offers high dodge (an amazing +6% / piece) which makes it pretty decent.
• L.61, 63, 65: Uncrafted Orlok set, again +3% hit / piece and this time you get a set bonus as well.
• L.65: Angelic set , which is amazing actually, +3% hit / piece.

I use those sets on my second bear, which is more STR oriented. At L.65 you can go 220 str / 109 dex and 95% hit without Mecha head (it would give a further +2% hit).

L.65 Uncrafted Orlok was extensively tested with huge mob pulls in Fang (solo-ing 1st Floor - no elixirs used). You can tank comfortably with it. At 61 PVP Orlok is very good too, but not sure about the optimal build.

Of course, you can't really play full str atm. Some say that the reason behind this is that bears would be OP if there wasn't a hit% penalty for pure STR (however, this is just an assumption).

IMO, not being able to go full str makes things a bit trickier, which adds to the fun factor of the game. You have to experiment with gear /attribute distribution to find the combination of str / hit% that suits you. Then, knowing that you have reduced hit%, you might want to adjust your style, e.g. you want to make sure that you enter the room a lot earlier than the rest of the team to make sure you get all aggro in case taunt doesn't hit properly. In which case, you need enough time to aggro some mobs 'manually' lol. Also, when that bird constantly steals aggro , maybe it's time to draw your dagger?

All that jazz makes the bear class more challenging to master and more fun to play (at least, this is how I see it. or choose to see it lol ).

[CrimsonTider]

I know they work, but just not well. You can't use them when you are at a distance (which is where you are when you are using a bow), and if you are up close, then there is no advantage to having the bow.

I have all 5 non-crafted weapon sets, 1H scimitar/bongo, 2h scimitar, spear, shanks and bow. The STR gear is Humanian & Humanity (depending on which weapon) and the DEX gear is Tiki. I've compared all of these, and without a doubt (it's not even close), I can cause by far the most damage wi
th the shanks whether I am farming low level mobs or boss, or whether I am fighting Tiki God or the Humania mobs. The only
reason I usually don't use the shanks is because the armor and dodge is too low and I get killed a lot.

And now we are getting to where I wanted to go: bears becoming less like bears and more like "bird-wannabes". You mention not being able to use your skills when equipping a bow, this should only occur if you're NOT tanking. I maybe wrong but if the Humania bows are like all other xbows in PL, they have a range of 12-13m. Bears have one attack (beckon) which reach this distace. This leads to why we see more and more bears auto-attacking vs. "getting bloodied up."

Bears are misinformed on the facts of dps and even less informed on what their role is. I am not calling you out, this is a general observation. To many, bows = distance.

@Jay - Thank you for picking up the dirty work. I have a question: Isn't crit a percentage or "luck" stat like dodge? I mention this because I have cleared maps before with one or two crits. Then turned around and crit evrything on the next map. I understand where you are coming from but, unlike you and I and other more respected bears, it is another "stat" bears look at when deciding gear. If the majority of bow bears auto mobs and bosses (which most do), then the extra crit for skill damage is null. Make sense?

No matter the discussion, it does prove that once again either strength gear needs a revamp or attribute points do. As said before, only bears use other sets to maximize their skills. If a mage or bird equip sets outside of their class, their skill damage suffers greatly.

[JaytB]

@Jay - Thank you for picking up the dirty work. I have a question: Isn't crit a percentage or "luck" stat like dodge? I mention this because I have cleared maps before with one or two crits. Then turned around and crit evrything on the next map. I understand where you are coming from but, unlike you and I and other more respected bears, it is another "stat" bears look at when deciding gear. If the majority of bow bears auto mobs and bosses (which most do), then the extra crit for skill damage is null. Make sense?

I understand what you're saying, although I wasnt talking about a bear that just auto's mobs and bosses. It wouldn't matter what gear they would use, or what stat would be important, if they just hang back and don't use their skills. I do see a reason for that though, bow set is simply much harder to keep alive. It's ideal with trashers or a simple tank pot, if you want to maximize (potential) dmg, but it's far from ideal to do what a bear is meant to do best AKA crowd control.

And yes, I agree with you that crit is lucked based. It's just like dodge for a bear... Higher dodge means higher survivability, but that doesn't mean you could have an unlucky run and don't dodge much. Does that make dodge less important as a survivability factor? It's the same with crit, it simply means more total dmg in the long run. Even if it's luck based, higher crit means higher dmg output. I'm talking about the total dmg you'll have dealt after many runs and, again, for bears that know how to maximize this dmg output.

Don't get me wrong though, personally I wouldn't go on a bear if I wanted to deal dmg. I'd rather run with a 1H sword/shield set any time of the day. But since we were discussing pure dmg, I tried to point out that the bow set offers more (potential) dmg as compared to the 2H sword set.