STS inadvertently causing ingame 'Classism' in PVE and

[Madnex]

Rogues are not any closer than they used to be in terms of armor, that point is moot. If you compare armor sums (body and helmet) from previous expansions you will see that if anything, the new L46 mythic set is perfectly in line with the L36 mythic set in terms of warrior-rogue armor difference (19-21% less armor for rogue).

The only thing that can be blamed for the unequal survivability growth is the all-class items (Planar Pendant, Arcane Ring). So yeah, 170 armor is less of an increase for warriors, more for rogues and even more for mages. Plus both items offer stats in the form of equal INT, DEX, STR which due to the stat distribution system gives an overall smaller survivability bonus for warriors in terms of HP. In return, they get more out of % armor buffs and also heal from STR skill buffs (which are not scaled <- that is what you should be focusing on).

[Midievalmodel]

Rogues are not any closer than they used to be in terms of armor, that point is moot. If you compare armor sums (body and helmet) from previous expansions you will see that if anything, the new L46 mythic set is perfectly in line with the L36 mythic set in terms of warrior-rogue armor difference (19-21% less armor for rogue).

The only thing that can be blamed for the unequal survivability growth is the all-class items (Planar Pendant, Arcane Ring). So yeah, 170 armor is less of an increase for warriors, more for rogues and even more for mages. Plus both items offer stats in the form of equal INT, DEX, STR which due to the stat distribution system gives an overall smaller survivability bonus for warriors in terms of HP. In return, they get more out of % armor buffs and also heal from STR skill buffs (which are not scaled <- that is what you should be focusing on).

Thanks Madnex for pointing that out. That is a very valid point. I guess you mentioned that there use to be class specific rings and amulets that offered differences in armor for a warrior compared to a rogue. Now that most use planar pendant and arcane ring this in essence does create a decrease in the gap of total armor between warrior and rogue correct?

Another point I wanted to make. My post was referring to the nordr expansion and why it was successful due to mob and boss difficulties and rogues survivability was lower back then (which is multifactorial due to pets, etc, etc, as mentioned above my madnex). Well if you look at the nordr expansion this level 36 mythic gear was not as common as the upgraded 41 mythic gear....in other words not alot of people had them. So if you look at the overall picture, most were running around with legendary gear. I just seem to remember a bigger gap in armor between legendary gears. I could be wrong. Don't have any proof of that.

But regardless the gap in total armor between a warrior and rogue/mage has decreased compared to nordr expansion due to the now widely available arcane ring and pendant that are not class specific.

[Tatman]

Rogue (and mage btw) survivability has increased more when compared to the survivability of tanks. We are talking in relative terms here.

And I don't know why some of you focus on armor only. Health, dodge, the now widely available pets like Nekro and Maridos, the buffed mage shield, the fixed razor if you wish. All of this is increased survivability.

[Midievalmodel]

Rogue (and mage btw) survivability has increased more when compared to the survivability of tanks. We are talking in relative terms here.

And I don't know why some of you focus on armor only. Health, dodge, the now widely available pets like Nekro and Maridos, the buffed mage shield, the fixed razor if you wish. All of this is increased survivability.

You are absolutely correct should look at it as survivability instead of just armor. I guess armor seems to be the easiest thing to fix. Can't really take away nekro.....can't really take away rogues already high dodge/razor shield. HP would be somewhat tough to fix since its so tied to stats like strength, dexterity, and intelligence which when you take away certain stats for hp you also affect Crit, damage, etc. One way to fix HP is to add just straight HP bonus to the amor/helm gear. Just seems like armor is easiest to target. I am not saying thats the only fix we need. There is gonna have to be tons of other moving parts and changes for warriors to come close to be needed or wanted in PVE.

Tata I agree with you if all we did was increase the map difficulties and fix nothing else then yes the need or want for warriors will be worse. What I am proposing is that many changes which includes this increase in boss/mob difficulty needs to happen together. There is a reason why nordr expansion was so successful. the reasons are multifactorial. I think it would be helpful to look at all of the aspects of Nordr expansion such as gear, mob/boss difficulty, survivability of different classes, ankhs, pets, etc and figure out what we can do to come back to that style of gameplay. Is it possible? I dunno. But the problem is everyone is all fixated on just buffing warriors with out changing anything else to the game. That just wont work. Buffing warriors will not be enough. STG needs to change so many things.