Faking offers for manipulating the prices

[QuaseT]

"The mail he wrote had no effect on the price of loons"
- what a huge claim on top of another claim that "he did nothing wrong". Mind to elaborate further how it had ABSOLUTELY no effect?

Let's insist that "he did nothing wrong", are you at the same time implying that we are allowed to do the same(sending as many mails to as many people we can) as well so long as all the recipients don't follow what we suggest them to do?

The claim "it had no effect on the price" relates to the price change that did not happen as a result of his mail. The attempt was so weak that at the point he sent that mail the price did not change at all. I explained that already, he sent the mail to 10 people out of 150 and not even all of those followed his advice. If you still decline this you are free to filter the traders market at that date and check the price and sellers.
"He did nothing wrong" was meant according to the ToS and the post the devs provided us. I said that I believe the attempt itself is not banable, therefore he technically did nothing wrong in this case. I can only use information visible for me here, if theres more/other info that makes the case more severe or shows that it wasnt only an unserious attempt my opinion changes instantly. The attempt alone is wrong, makes him look bad and is not considered as right imo. Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough. Banning for the attempt alone seems like an overreaction to me.
I dont wanna trigger anyone. This is my opinion and I understand yours aswell. I am trying to be realistic and some of you try to be accurate. Price manipulation is banable, but in this case is so unserious that I wouldnt ban anyone.

[Analytical]

Murder and stealing candy are two completely different things... both have different consequences. But I understand your analogy.

People price manipulate all the time.. with either “Fake C/O” or saying an item is “X price” when in reality it’s “Y price”. It’s nothing new.

You’re right we don’t know if he’s going to do it again. What he did happened at a very bad time.


He bought balloons a few days before inflation hit, then when inflation did hit, he decided to resell them. Then out of no where a screen shot of him trying to manipulate the price of balloons just so happen to be “exposed” at the right time. To make him look bad. Since he bought 3 balloons for 60m and resold them for 100m, it looked like he was price manipulating. When it was just inflation.

Did he make the mistake a few years ago of trying to manipulate the price? Yes

Did he learn from it? I would think so.

Will he do it again? Probably not.

Just like in the real world there are consequences but there are second chances as-well. correct?

It’s up to Devs to decide. Not the communities choice.

Everything just lined up at a bad time, and the people who envy him just so happened to have their pitch forks sharpened and torches lit.

But if you’re asking if he should be banned. My answer is: No, people learn from their mistakes. Just my own opinion, I don’t care if you agree or disagree with me.

In the end it’s the devs decision, not mine.


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Agreed with you its such as bad timing to be exposed here while we were discussing on why prices of many items are rising, it was a healthy and pretty constructive discussion until the image came out.

Frankly, I'm not interested in commenting more on the person that's has been exposed. Like what you said, this is up to the devs, we can't do anything except providing our views on it for dev to take more wholesome measures as to make future attempts to manipulate the market to be much much harder.

Personally I enjoy having a matured discussion instead of pointing fingers at one another.

Cheers.

[Bundlos]

Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough.

Just want to clear out the misunderstanding that the few tactics Remiem hand-picked while writing her response are not the only ones she is referring to as being bannable. When she says "to clear things up, this is bannable", it refers to the entirety of the opening post (since the response was in context to the OP), of which the following is a part:



That does make what the guilty party did/attempted to do a bannable offense

[Titanium]

This is 2 years ago when I came back. I had a balloon banner and I was told if I message people to rise the price it would work. Little did I know it doesn't work, it won't work like that and I cringe now for what I said. I wanted my 30m item to go to 50m hence I only had 36m at the time. So 15m profit is huge to me, I sent the message and all things went down hill.
I got death threats by multiple people, I got tted constantly by multiple people. It doesn't stop there, people spamming me, leaving my maps after tting me.
You want proof it didn't work. At the time when balloons went to 50m is the same time kersh bb and ollerus goes up in price too. I didn't own any of those yet I was accused of them rising too.
Right now, balloon goes up and guess what else goes up? Ollerus kersh bb and many other items. I got none of them on me.
I don't get it, why keep bringing back the past on 1 mistake I did when I have done over 100000 good deeds? No one talks about what I have done that is good, just my mistake and tt hah. There are people out there doing way worse yet no one says a word about them?

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Why do you feel we care lmao? nobody going to read that.

[Titanium]

And you guys see why the devs did not put 30k a run in pirate booty. I am sure that event alone added 50+ billion gold to the game even though it had "low" drops.
No one is manipulating any thing, its inflation. I paid 60m each for 3 red balloons and I go to buy more this week and they are 100m+ now so I just decide to screw buying more and sell mine.
Omg I could only imagine the prices if people did 30k a run, adding around 1.2 trillion gold into game. But do becareful because I am sure some items are fake, just ask your guild or a few friends about the price of the item you are buying or selling.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ight=Time+line

this is so cute.

[Redjellydonut]

Exposed


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Oh dear thats embarrassing


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[Redjellydonut]

I can give you 2 good gold sinks.

1.)Adding Awakening event 3-4 times a year for 2 weeks

2.) adding (untradable)
-50m gold vanity set
-75m gold vanity set
-100m gold vanity set
- 200m gold vanity set
-250m gold vanity set
-500m vanity set
-750m vanity set
-999m vanity set.

:NEW 50k gold chest, chance to loot (tradable)
-5m gold vanity weapon
-10m gold vanity weapon
-25m gold vanity weapon
-50m vanity weapon
-100m vanity weapon


: ADD purchasable vanity weapons too(untradable)
- 150m gold vanity weapon
- 250m gold vanity weapon
- 500m gold vanity weapon
- 999m gold vanity weapon.


STS can do so much with sirspendsalot, SO MUCH!! I really hope they have something planned for him. Because I would like all these things I’ve mentioned to be implemented!


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I LIKE! Some epic vanities too! Hopefully they aren’t just gold coin themed vanities and super cool badass vanities


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[Titanium]

Past is past and nobody should care about old things?

As far as i know, if u ever break the law and get caught few years later.. U will face consequences whatsoever.

Not saying that he should get banned or not but the 2 years ago excuse isn't a good one

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Lmao, are you and him in the same boat?

Weren't you the one who actually selling cryo daggers from 20m initial price to 55m?

I can go on and on, cause i've seen the auction tricks which you have pulled, making people believe it you sold ur stuff when you never did, u just cancelled the trade yoo.

[Tackled]

lol someone just listed 20m for a bonesaw in cs aka “ninjers” bro it’s best just to play like a hard core toon and don’t even associate or trade lol


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[gigi]

Yes the attempt is poor. I am not sure if he knew that its banable bc it happened long ago. I believe he sent the mail to all the people mentioned, not more, not less. He would have put them into the list otherwise. In this particular case I would not ban anybody for it. I agree that no good reputation goes within this message and so does he know. I just feel like people are a bit overreacting because this attempt didnt change anything and it looks very weak, just as some new player trying to buy an ign. I believe devs should look into each case and decide if its worth a lifetime ban, a temporary ban or a warning. Just as they do with makro users since theres no protection in form of an "automatic security". If you believe this attempt deserves a ban I can understand why and I'm ok with that choice. But I personally dont think it deserves one no matter if he is a friend or not.

In my opinion he did nothing wrong. The mail he wrote had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didnt manipulate anything. I would not ban somebody for the attempt alone. Same as I would not ban a new player who writes "selling ign" and doesnt know its banable aslong as he didnt actually do it. Thats my point of few, if u think he should get banned for this thats up to you.

Legally, ignorance to the terms of services proffers no excuse to escape criminal liability. Express consent to the rules governing the game is given every time you log in. Thus, your argument of not knowing whether a conduct is bannable falls short.

Moreover, whether or not the intended consequence eventuated (i.e. ‘your claim that he had no affect on the price of loons and the result is he didn’t manipulate anything’) is irrelevant.
What is of relevance is that he had the requisite intention to commit the act. Legally, an offender attempting to commit a crime is just as liable to criminal prosecution.

Given that he in fact wrote penned mails to more than one individual, the offence of conspiracy to commit an offence is also relevant, and will likely be satisfied. Just so you know, in most cases, prosecutors often prefer charges of conspiracy for two main reasons: easier to achieve a conviction, whilst also allowing the defendant to be subject to the same, if not a harsher penalty (relative to the foundational offence).

[emc_al]

Lmao, are you and him in the same boat?

Weren't you the one who actually selling cryo daggers from 20m initial price to 55m?

I can go on and on, cause i've seen the auction tricks which you have pulled, making people believe it you sold ur stuff when you never did, u just cancelled the trade yoo.

First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



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[Analytical]

First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



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Regardless of whether you are involved in price manipulations or not, you remain as one of the beficiaries of such action (provided that it did happen) rather than an offender yourself. This is not a reply directed specifically at you as they are many sellers or beneficiaries of such action.

Agreed with you, nothing wrong to ride on the current and sell for profit. The problem that's raised here is that being a beneficiary, there's often little to negligible incentive for one to speak up for those who are at the mercy of price manipulators because it very likely conflicts with their interest to sell for a good profit.

So what happens when everyone just sell their items and ride on the flow and don't give a damn to whoever manipulated the market supply or demand?

You start seeing people becoming toxic to one another in game or in forum because of the conflict of interests (sellers wanna ride on the flow, buyers complain about the possible price manipulations), people trolling in threads, insulting etc the list goes on, which sadly is exactly not what any player in AL would love to experience while buying and selling.

[Titanium]

First off my response to the Newdose guy i didn't mention anything about encryptions' whole situation. I just had a comment on his quote about the past.

And before saying that i did change the price of cryo Daggers check all these fourm threads selling cryoster daggs for 40-45m even before i auctioned mine.

Obviously after seeing that im not gonna list my daggs for 20m (initial price as u say) even if i bought them for that price.

Same thing with current red banners owners. They don't have to sell thier red banners for 60m cause it's somebody else manipulated the price.



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Didn't you try to manipulate the twinkrazor blades aswell from 5m to double?

Greed actually dictates these nab attempts.

Even if there will be bans in this matter, this will not stop because gold is above community, friends, guildmates, etc.

I rather stay in my own bubble to avoid any bad karma whatsoever.

You need to take the encryptions dude and sail away in a ship called "Cancelled".

[emc_al]

Didn't you try to manipulate the twinkrazor blades aswell from 5m to double?

Greed actually dictates these nab attempts.

Even if there will be bans in this matter, this will not stop because gold is above community, friends, guildmates, etc.

I rather stay in my own bubble to avoid any bad karma whatsoever.

You need to take the encryptions dude and sail away in a ship called "Cancelled".

You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

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[Titanium]

You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

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Have you ever wondered why your names appears in all manipulation topics doe?

[arcanefid]

The claim "it had no effect on the price" relates to the price change that did not happen as a result of his mail. The attempt was so weak that at the point he sent that mail the price did not change at all. I explained that already, he sent the mail to 10 people out of 150 and not even all of those followed his advice. If you still decline this you are free to filter the traders market at that date and check the price and sellers.
"He did nothing wrong" was meant according to the ToS and the post the devs provided us. I said that I believe the attempt itself is not banable, therefore he technically did nothing wrong in this case. I can only use information visible for me here, if theres more/other info that makes the case more severe or shows that it wasnt only an unserious attempt my opinion changes instantly. The attempt alone is wrong, makes him look bad and is not considered as right imo. Still if u compare it to remiems post he technically did not do that. No price change, no multiple chars, just a mail to 10 people is not enough. Banning for the attempt alone seems like an overreaction to me.
I dont wanna trigger anyone. This is my opinion and I understand yours aswell. I am trying to be realistic and some of you try to be accurate. Price manipulation is banable, but in this case is so unserious that I wouldnt ban anyone.

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.

[Analytical]

Have you ever wondered why your names appears in all manipulation topics doe?

He/she actually made sense in your example. It's not manipulation. It was decently explained.

To add, setting a personal price with the attempt to change the price of the market is a childish thought alone. The market doesn't just consist of one seller and one buyer. The fact that the item is listed in auction for such a price means that he or she is taking a risk that within the listed period, no one else other than him/her is selling it, hence a chance for the buyer to overpay for an item (this is imperfect knowledge of the buyers, no one knows the price of everything, if the buyer did not check prices before making a purchase, there's no one to blame.)

Maybe you are able to provide another example or continue with a more constructive take on market manipulations.

[Giant bench]

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

[Analytical]

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

Be careful when you use the word "all", I would not be so righteous about it. That said, I agreed with you to not boil more drama but look at the possible solutions to reduce or even possibly prevent market manipulations by guilty people who are still behind the curtains reading at these comments.

[arcanefid]

Killing someone and stealing a bag of chips is two different things... all of you making more dramatical than it really is.

I said that based on Remiem's post related to price manipulation. I'm not going to dig in forums and find the post because I'm sure you've already seen it. Remiem doesn't mention any value so that means it includes all sorts of price manipulation.