Stop Rogue Damage Nerf

[Zynzyn]

Endgame and High level rogues have no problem with their reduced damage but mid level and low level rogues are having a hard time. My suggestion to even out the dmg nerf would be ---

1. Make the damage nerf percentage for lvl 41 higher for example 15%, since some of us endgame rogues who differ with the OP here are posting they are having it too easy in the current situation. Then make the nerf % gradually SCALE DOWN according to level. This diminishing nerf would make rogues balanced out and distribute damage evenly unlike the current situation where the mandatory all enveloping damage-nerf put on endgame "killmachine" rogues is making twink rogues suffer. Twink rogues (lv 15 and below) do need their damage in pvp to put up a fight since tanks at twink levels are just unbelievably OP. Around lv 15 and downwards there should be no damage nerf so that at these low level twink brackets where rogues really "need" the damage for their defence in pvp are not having their already low damage further lowered.

[Kingofninjas]

Endgame and High level rogues have no problem with their reduced damage but mid level and low level rogues are having a hard time. My suggestion to even out the dmg nerf would be ---

1. Make the damage nerf percentage for lvl 41 higher for example 15%, since some of us endgame rogues who differ with the OP here are posting they are having it too easy in the current situation. Then make the nerf % gradually SCALE DOWN according to level. This diminishing nerf would make rogues balanced out and distribute damage evenly unlike the current situation where the mandatory all enveloping damage-nerf put on endgame "killmachine" rogues is making twink rogues suffer. Twink rogues (lv 15 and below) do need their damage in pvp to put up a fight since tanks at twink levels are just unbelievably OP. Around lv 15 and downwards there should be no damage nerf so that at these low level twink brackets where rogues really "need" the damage for their defence in pvp are not having their already low damage further lowered.

For many, twinking is attractive because of the lack of 1 hits. Removing rogue damage nerf would, to some extent, disturb this. I know that twink tanks are OP on low levels, but I am not sure whether their damage or armor is too high. From what I have heard, I am inclined to believe that the issue lies with their armor. What I suggest is a nerf on warriors as well, maybe 7-10% armor nerf that is indipendent of all all debuffs occurring during the fight, most notably, rogues aimed shot armor nerf. Basically, it should stack with the armor nerf that I suggest be applied to low level tanks (under lvl17? Idk where the imbalance ends).

[goodjuice]

Rouges still kill everyone all the Time... Rouges are always complaining, but your class rules! I will never run from a top geared war or sorc on my capped char but I cant fight a rouge. Rouges are the best class hands down in pvp I'm sure you would love to "get your power back " but that would just make the already unbalanced PvP aspect of this game absolutely unfair and totally frustrating.

[Kingofninjas]

Rouges still kill everyone all the Time... Rouges are always complaining, but your class rules! I will never run from a top geared war or sorc on my capped char but I cant fight a rouge. Rouges are the best class hands down in pvp I'm sure you would love to "get your power back " but that would just make the already unbalanced PvP aspect of this game absolutely unfair and totally frustrating.

Rogues are not the "best" class in general. In fact, a team of only rogues will lose to both a team of only mages and only tanks. However, 1 on 1 rogues will almost always win. You are complaining that rogues always destroy you 1 on 1, but all their skills are single target, so what do you expect?

[Iliketolol]

The damage nerf got replaced by para gems, and on top of that eye gems made them more deadly as critical is their primary stat..

Funny thing is that an average rogue can take down a maxed out rogue in just one combo, which takes about 1.5sec (atleast in twinking)

[Kingofninjas]

The damage nerf got replaced by para gems, and on top of that eye gems made them more deadly as critical is their primary stat..

Funny thing is that an average rogue can take down a maxed out rogue in just one combo, which takes about 1.5sec (atleast in twinking)

An average rogue cannot take down a maxed out rogue in 1 combo. Average is mythic bow and maxed out is imbued, rarcane ring, and new mytjuc amulet. I tested with a maxed out rogue and tried all my best pets but could not drop him even though I had elond bow.

[raw]

An average rogue cannot take down a maxed out rogue in 1 combo. Average is mythic bow and maxed out is imbued, rarcane ring, and new mytjuc amulet. I tested with a maxed out rogue and tried all my best pets but could not drop him even though I had elond bow.

Truth. A maxed rogue with 1800-ish armor and 5k health is very difficult for a mythic ring, fang rogue to KO. It is possible if charged aim, nox and pierce all crit. Add a nekro in there and it is impossible.

[cami]

The rogue is so powerfull. but I think the mage can kill a rogue with many stun and practice.

1) mage can to use the new mythic frost charged it and cause slow and freeze.
2) mage can to use fireball ( stun )
3) mage can to use fireball ( stun ) - Wind ( stun ) - lighting death blow
4) mage can to use pet for stun like slag.

Now imagine all this in pvp.

[Visiting]

The rogue is so powerfull. but I think the mage can kill a rogue with many stun and practice.

1) mage can to use the new mythic frost charged it and cause slow and freeze.
2) mage can to use fireball ( stun )
3) mage can to use fireball ( stun ) - Wind ( stun ) - lighting death blow
4) mage can to use pet for stun like slag.

Now imagine all this in pvp.

While all this is true, Mages are generally dead before they get more than one or two skills done

[davidvilla]

The major problem here is class balance Below 21. Warrior class is clearly dominating the entire old seasons 1/2 zone level (1-21) which is clearly seen as a market price on the gears.
Rogue damage nerf is not the problem here. The real problem is the ARMOR presence on Gears and pets.
Like I said at many of the threads now the level 13 warriors can enjoy the 1000 armor base and that's simply ridiculous. Imagine yourself how much damage do we actually need to penetrate that armor?
Even a level 7/8 warrior can have around 600 armor if gears set up properly. And none of the class can penetrate the armor neither deal more damage.
So how can we solve this problem??

Answer is simple:
- limit armor. (pet armor and gear armor not stacking together below 21) one has to make a choice either a pet or gear for armor.
- limit the 5 skill set to just 4 below 21
(let the old school zone remain old and classy. DO NOT LET somebody enjoy juggernaut, vengence and heal horn as 3 powerful heal) warriors already have heal horn so powerful along with vengence 50 strength.
- new skill set has to be set so that juggernaut gets merged into somewhere in vengence but lowering down the damage reduction to 10 percent rather than 20 percent.

[Kingofninjas]

Truth. A maxed rogue with 1800-ish armor and 5k health is very difficult for a mythic ring, fang rogue to KO. It is possible if charged aim, nox and pierce all crit. Add a nekro in there and it is impossible.

With nekro in there I'm not entirely sure if even maxed out rogue could combo kill another one.

Also for a lower geared rogue to kill a maxed out one, even if all 3 crit its not an assured kill. I tried using gyrm on a maxed out rogue and I cudnt combo kill even with elond. I only got kills when my aimed got a high end crit. It also affects the maxed out rogues play style. In tdm, I see way too many maxed out rogues just closing their eyes and rushing the lower geared one with absolutely no fear of dying. They know they can tank 1 combo and if either aimed or pierce crits the low geared rogue will die, so skill is becoming less and less of a factor in deciding the outcome of a game.

[Danisafi]

The major problem here is class balance Below 21. Warrior class is clearly dominating the entire old seasons 1/2 zone level (1-21) which is clearly seen as a market price on the gears.
Rogue damage nerf is not the problem here. The real problem is the ARMOR presence on Gears and pets.
Like I said at many of the threads now the level 13 warriors can enjoy the 1000 armor base and that's simply ridiculous. Imagine yourself how much damage do we actually need to penetrate that armor?
Even a level 7/8 warrior can have around 600 armor if gears set up properly. And none of the class can penetrate the armor neither deal more damage.
So how can we solve this problem??

Answer is simple:
- limit armor. (pet armor and gear armor not stacking together below 21) one has to make a choice either a pet or gear for armor.
- limit the 5 skill set to just 4 below 21
(let the old school zone remain old and classy. DO NOT LET somebody enjoy juggernaut, vengence and heal horn as 3 powerful heal) warriors already have heal horn so powerful along with vengence 50 strength.
- new skill set has to be set so that juggernaut gets merged into somewhere in vengence but lowering down the damage reduction to 10 percent rather than 20 percent.

You are wrong with the stats you are sharing . A maxed armor tank lv7 for example can not reach 600 armor.Going with this warrior pvp on lv7-9 is impossible with VB in case rogues can still farm you easily as i need to say

[davidvilla]

You are wrong with the stats you are sharing . A maxed armor tank lv7 for example can not reach 600 armor.Going with this warrior pvp on lv7-9 is impossible with VB in case rogues can still farm you easily as i need to say

R u living under the rock?
Use armor pet, armor set, armor/shield weapon, goblin ring, sacred will amulet on a level 7 and tell me u won't reach 600 armor.

I've gone through all tests mate. If u can't handle the truth then u need to test out yourself

[UndeadJudge]

I believe the reason for all of the scaling issues is the calculation for damage reduction (derived from armor). If Madnex or someone else knows the numbers on it, it would be helpful. I'm assuming, graphed, it would be an exponential function. Because of this, the higher your level, the more armor you need to acquire the same amount of damage reduction.

This is why warriors are considered OP at lower levels - their defensive skills combined with their high % damage reduction makes them very difficult to kill, while they still are able to do a good amount of damage. They are also able to damage rogues and sorcerers a lot harder, due to their lower armor.

At higher levels (21~), armor reaches a point where it isn't as effective. The damage reduction provided is much lower than the lower levels, resulting in higher damage output from all 3 classes, but more specifically rogues. This is because the damage reduction gap between rogues and warriors becomes much lower, while rogues abilities scale damage much better with the armor Debuff and the stackable damage buff from aimed shot. Sorcerers are left in the dust, since their only ability that is really able to scale with any stat other than raw damage is their shield. And due to the damage reduction being much lower, sorcerer's shield breaks much quicker.

It's just the way the classes are designed that gives improper scaling to all three. This is just a theory, however from my personal experience, all of the following stated above was observed. Building 1.6k armor on my level 26 tank hardly gave a noticeable change to my incoming damage compared to a normal set that gives 60 more damage.

I also remember GoodSyntax posting a very interesting thread about how armor may plateau at certain points. It was very old, however a Dev responded with how armor should be observed. Not to mention, Ravager made a thread about how aimed shot may actually provide a larger armor debuff than it should.

Thoughts on this would be very appreciated.


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[Castellann]

Ok no more dmg for rogues. Then pls give us dodge, bc it sux now.

[Danisafi]

A rogue now has up to 55% Dodge , lets say you get more Dodge , what for should we even hit rogues anymore?

[nevercan]

An average rogue cannot take down a maxed out rogue in 1 combo. Average is mythic bow and maxed out is imbued, rarcane ring, and new mytjuc amulet. I tested with a maxed out rogue and tried all my best pets but could not drop him even though I had elond bow.

Truth. A maxed rogue with 1800-ish armor and 5k health is very difficult for a mythic ring, fang rogue to KO. It is possible if charged aim, nox and pierce all crit. Add a nekro in there and it is impossible.

Do you read his post wel?
he says atleast on twink lvl.

[Iliketolol]

An average rogue cannot take down a maxed out rogue in 1 combo. Average is mythic bow and maxed out is imbued, rarcane ring, and new mytjuc amulet. I tested with a maxed out rogue and tried all my best pets but could not drop him even though I had elond bow.

It was not directed towards endgame, of course theres a huge difference between an average and a maxed out rogue @@ but in twink levels theres not much difference.

[Kingofninjas]

Do you read his post wel?
he says atleast on twink lvl.

This thread is about rogue damage Nerf, which applies to all levels. Please read the title of the thread before asking others to read.

[nevercan]

This thread is about rogue damage Nerf, which applies to all levels. Please read the title of the thread before asking others to read.

Dont blame me i just asked if you readed wel.