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Thread: Loki - The overlooked pet for Rogues

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    Senior Member GoodSyntax's Avatar
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    Default Loki - The overlooked pet for Rogues

    The past couple of weeks, I have been doing some testing with various pets for quickest Elite Forest runs.

    In my testing, I have used Malison, Wrathjaw, Kettle and Loki as my pets.

    Interestingly enough, I have determined that Loki, in this case is the superior pet for quickest SOLO Elite Forest runs.

    My best timed runs with Malison and Kettle are roughly similar, about 4:00 solo with no elixirs; however, the surprise came when, after numerous runs, my main pets were hungry, so on a whim I tried Loki. Much to my surprise, I easily completed the map in under 4:00, about 3:50 (give or take). Additional runs to confirm whether this was an anomaly (as I had though) proved that I came in consistently under 3:45....occasionally at 3:30.

    Now, I was intrigued and decided to do some number crunching.

    Kettle is generally my preferred pet for timed runs, mostly due to his +10% DMG bonus and speed boost.

    Loki however, provides a +15% DMG bonus, along with a +20 DEX arcane ability.

    Here are my base DMG stats fully equipped with my main three pets, Malison, Kettle and Loki (keep in mind, I don't own any mythic or arcane items):

    Malison: 285.3
    Kettle: 282.3
    Loki: 273.3

    Now, to calculate your potential maximum DMG given the arcane and happiness bonuses:

    Malison: 285.3 - No change, arcane ability provides +15% Dodge
    Kettle: 310.53 - +10% DMG from happiness bonus
    Loki: 326.37 - +20 DEX from arcane ability (yields +10.5 DMG = 283.8), +15% DMG from happiness bonus

    To keep the calculation simple, lets imagine that there is no armor reduction, no critical strikes, and that each hit is equal to your current DMG stat. Given this scenario, Loki provides an overall increase of 5.1% versus Kettle, and a 14.4% increase versus Malison.

    Over the course of 20 successful hits, Loki provides the equivalent damage output of 21 strikes when Kettle is equipped, and nearly 23 strikes when Malison is equipped! Extrapolating this out over the course of several hundred strikes to complete the map, Loki yields an obvious and very tangible benefit.

    Adding in the potential for critical strikes only magnifies this damage disparity and tilts the calculations further in favor of Loki, as the +250% Crit bonus on Aimed Shot winds up being generating DMG 12.5% higher on Loki versus Kettle and 37.5% higher versus Malison!

    Now, the obvious downsides, pot consumption with Loki is noticeably higher - both because he provides no dodge bonus (as is the case with Malison), and because his non-DMG stat boost is meager.

    The stat screen does not reflect percent increase in DMG bonus from pets, so most folks see a relatively low number on their stat screen with Loki and assume he is a mediocre pet. The reality is, when you run the calculations to determine actual DMG values, Loki is superior in many ways.

    Obviously, this is anecdotal evidence - I haven't created a spreadsheet which records the damage inflicted when running Elite Forest with each pet, which would provide more tangible evidence. I can only go by what is probably 100+ solo runs and what I "feel" is most effective, backed up by some basic number crunching.

    So, lesson of the story here is do not underestimate Loki.

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    I love Loki!! I always did
    IGN: Sariita/Sariibites - AL

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    Senior Member GoodSyntax's Avatar
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    I hate to bump my own thread, but I am curious if anyone else has had the same experience as I had with Loki versus Kettle/Malison and other "elite" pets on timed elite runs...

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Senior Member Zanpakuto's Avatar
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    yes, most recently have I noticed that loki is totally the underdog! I've started using him for some runs. Talon is still undoubtedly better though, but I love how loki does a mini heal.

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    Nice kal, thanks for sharing<3

    <Pride>

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    Exactly how did you go from 282 damage to 310 with Kettle? My damage with Kettle is 286 at max including the 10% damage it grants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drearivev View Post
    Exactly how did you go from 282 damage to 310 with Kettle? My damage with Kettle is 286 at max including the 10% damage it grants.
    282.3 is my DMG stat with Kettle. Because pet DMG bonus is not reflected in your stat screen, simply take 282.3 * 1.10 (to add in the 10% DMG bonus) and you get 310.53 as your "actual" DMG.

    This goes for all % DMG increase pets like Esteban, Wrathjaw, Loki and others.

    Now, I am taking a leap of faith in saying that Loki's Arcane bonus of +20 DEX (which yields +10.5 DMG) is applied to your DMG stat before the happiness DMG multiplier is added. If the DMG multiplier is added first, then the "actual" DMG with the Arcane and Happiness bonus is 324.795, not 326.37, so not a huge differential, but one that does make a difference (albeit a 1% difference between calculation methods is not much for purposes of comparison between pets).

    For purposes of reproduction, here is my build:

    Lv31 Rogue

    Attribute points: All Dex

    Weapon: lv31 Bonechill Bow of Potency
    Helm: lv31 Noble Mask of Will (DEX)
    Armor: lv31 Noble Double of Will (DEX)
    Ring: lv30 Cobalt Ring (DEX version with the higher DMG stat)
    Amulet: lv31 Swirling Amulet of Potency

    Below is my stat screen with absolutely nothing equipped:

    Name:  Me.png
Views: 1943
Size:  1.25 MB

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Senior Member Alrisaia's Avatar
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    Flap Jack is a sleeper in the same way and stuns too

    <Elite Runners>

    IGNs: Alrisaia | Alrisio | Gallinar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    282.3 is my DMG stat with Kettle. Because pet DMG bonus is not reflected in your stat screen, simply take 282.3 * 1.10 (to add in the 10% DMG bonus) and you get 310.53 as your "actual" DMG.

    This goes for all % DMG increase pets like Esteban, Wrathjaw, Loki and others.

    Now, I am taking a leap of faith in saying that Loki's Arcane bonus of +20 DEX (which yields +10.5 DMG) is applied to your DMG stat before the happiness DMG multiplier is added. If the DMG multiplier is added first, then the "actual" DMG with the Arcane and Happiness bonus is 324.795, not 326.37, so not a huge differential, but one that does make a difference (albeit a 1% difference between calculation methods is not much for purposes of comparison between pets).

    For purposes of reproduction, here is my build:

    Lv31 Rogue

    Attribute points: All Dex

    Weapon: lv31 Bonechill Bow of Potency
    Helm: lv31 Noble Mask of Will (DEX)
    Armor: lv31 Noble Double of Will (DEX)
    Ring: lv30 Cobalt Ring (DEX version with the higher DMG stat)
    Amulet: lv31 Swirling Amulet of Potency

    Below is my stat screen with absolutely nothing equipped:

    Name:  Me.png
Views: 1943
Size:  1.25 MB
    But why *1.1?

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    Senior Member GoodSyntax's Avatar
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    1.1 because 1 accounts for your current DMG, 0.1 for the 10% boost from Kettle.

    Its the same as saying 110%, or +10%

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrisaia View Post
    Flap Jack is a sleeper in the same way and stuns too
    True, but Lokis +20 DEX is an important part of the formula, a part which many people overlook!

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    1.1 because 1 accounts for your current DMG, 0.1 for the 10% boost from Kettle.

    Its the same as saying 110%, or +10%
    Ohhhh I thought it meant it just adds 10 damage.
    Thanks.

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    I even use Loki in pvp. I'm a Mage so 15% dmg happiness bonus is huge, str happiness bonus helps me survive longer and makes shield absorb more dmg. Also when his arcane is used my hp and my dmg output gets higher and let's not forget a bit of healing isn't bad, right? Also 20 dex increases party rogues' dmg output. A very good party pet overall

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    Glad i lvled up my Loki to 30

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    True, but Lokis +20 DEX is an important part of the formula, a part which many people overlook!
    How long it will last? The +20 dex.

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    I believe it lasts for 8 seconds, and his arcane cools off after 15.

    Keep in mind that Loki's +20 DEX arcane has an area of affect, so it can affect all party members in range, and can be successfully used in a rotation to maintain the +20 DEX through an entire run.

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    I believe it lasts for 8 seconds, and his arcane cools off after 15.

    Keep in mind that Loki's +20 DEX arcane has an area of affect, so it can affect all party members in range, and can be successfully used in a rotation to maintain the +20 DEX through an entire run.
    I will make sure to noted it.
    Then it will be another alternative for ribbit rotation party

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    Senior Member Alrisaia's Avatar
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    Loki is now in my rotation He'll be levelled during my grind to 36

    <Elite Runners>

    IGNs: Alrisaia | Alrisio | Gallinar
    Guides: Glossary of Terms | Twisting Ribbit | The Blender

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    Senior Member GoodSyntax's Avatar
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    Hate to necro my own thread, but case in point on the power of Loki - the below two screenshots were me running solo with my hybrid build (because I PvP) and getting some pretty good times in Elite Forest and Elite Brackenridge. After running hundreds of Elite Forest and Elite Jarls, Loki consistently produces the best overall times due to his +15% DMG and +20 DEX Arcane.

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    Name:  Forest.png
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    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by GoodSyntax; 08-26-2013 at 04:57 PM.

    AL: Kalizzaa
    Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
    Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained

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    Senior Member Alrisaia's Avatar
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    good doggie

    <Elite Runners>

    IGNs: Alrisaia | Alrisio | Gallinar
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