Changes to Mages!

[Alhuntrazeck]

Hey AL players and developers (I hope),

This season has seen mages being significantly more weak than the last due to the damage nerf. But that's not the entire reason...mages simply do not have enough survivability.

Disclaimer: These ideas are NOT entirely mine. They are from several community members and some from my own marvelously intelligent smurfish head.

Here we go...

I. An Armor Buff:
A mage has the lowest armor of all classes in the game, which partially explains why rogues always one-shot us. Instead of nerfing rogues, why not buff our armor? I'm sure most, if not all, mages would like to see their armor comparable to a rogues'.

II. An Armor Buffing Skill Addition:
This works as an and/or to 1. A neat option would be to merge the mana and heal regen upgrades in Lifegiver into one Regen upgrade, and making the last upgrade one that temporarily increases armor of all allies by, say 30%. So when the mage is about to die and casts Lifegiver which heals like 60% hp, the mage is also increasing armor so his death won't be quite so fast.

III. Reduce Stun Invulnerability for Mages' skills:
If STG could make the stun invulnerability FOR MAGES way lower than its current (I believe) 7 seconds it'd make mages much more a deadly foe in PvP. A decent time would be 3 seconds, which means all of our charged fireball (which, let's be honest, is the only skill other than gale force that stuns for mages - more on that later) attacks will stun! This wouldn't be too different from warriors stacking skyward smash's stun and arcane maul proc.

IV. Make Ice a Stunning Skill:
This isn't very probable but...If Ice could stun as well as freeze, it would be great to use in 5v5s and 1v1s. It would, of course, be subject to stun immunity so it wouldn't be OP but I think this would work great if worked correctly. It would also be tons more useful than Gale Force IMHO.

EDIT: I realize this would work better if Ice was made to ROOT instead of stun, similar to Crawly. The rooted player would still be able to fire skills but would be unable to move.

V. Buffing Arcane Staff:
The staff in itself is the best weapon a mage can have but honestly, it isn't quite comparable to mauls and hooks back in their day. IMHO, its partly due to its disgusting proc - compared to a maul's its pathetic. I propose making it:
+60 INT, +30 STR, +30 DEX, and a stun. Sure, it's OP, but isn't that what arcanes are supposed to be?

I realize most of these suggestions revolve around fixing the squishiness of mages, but that's what I intended for in the first place.

Constructive criticisms are welcome. Please voice what you have to say!

EDIT: I just thought I'll post some of the other interesting threads about mages and buffing (as per .Sorc.'s recommendation):


http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134933
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134319
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?t=134519

Too lazy to dig up more...

Anyway this has become quite a problem. I hope the Devs have a solution for us!

[Hoardseeker]

FULLY Agreed!!! Also check the thread Mages in general discussion and Quote it and add it to your thread

[Anarchist]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.

[Giuewek]

+1

Sent from my HTC Desire C using Tapatalk

[Bless]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.

Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this

[Instanthumor]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.

Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this

Well.. These are coming from rogue's point of views.. Pretty invalid to me.

[Andrew Ouye]

I agree. I am warrior, but I really do think that mages are way underpowered. I feel like a bully at times, because they literally can't do anything about it except leave the room.

[Bless]

Buff this, enhance those, buff that, add more of these, give us that.

The only buffs i would give to a mage are the arcane staff buff and slight reducement of the other 2 classes stun invulnerability.

Stop.

Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this

Well.. These are coming from rogue's point of views.. Pretty invalid to me.

how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

[Instanthumor]

how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

Well, I thought there was no need for an explanation. It's pretty obvious to me.

[Bless]

how are they invalid..? You just make bold statements opposing rogues when you have no evidence or reasoning, so stop being a hippocrit and learn to debate, or atleast say why..

Well, I thought there was no need for an explanation. It's pretty obvious to me.

What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!

[Kuragasi]

What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!

Alhunts points have nothing to do with gear, for one he's full mythic and probably one of the best PvP mages I've seen.


Now on another note, I believe mages should be squishy, kinda is the point of being a mage however I don't believe our damage reflects what it should truly be. Mages should be the damage leader its the trade off to being squishy. Hide in the back nuke and don't get hit is the life of a mage.

[Bless]

What is? That mages that arent geared want buffs because they can't keep up with full maxed people?

It's like:

Legendary Mage vs maul warrior = mage owned -> "We need buffs"

And what's wrong with a rogue commenting on a Mage thread? You've never played a rogue and yet you're on every Balancing thread...what's wrong with my opinions?

I swear sometimes I come in these threads just to get laughs!

Alhunts points have nothing to do with gear, for one he's full mythic and probably one of the best PvP mages I've seen.


Now on another note, I believe mages should be squishy, kinda is the point of being a mage however I don't believe our damage reflects what it should truly be. Mages should be the damage leader its the trade off to being squishy. Hide in the back nuke and don't get hit is the life of a mage.

It pretty much is the top damage, with curse mage is inarguably the highest dmg dealing class against mages or rogues, maybe wars.

[falmear]

If devs believe that mages are underpowered they would have done something months ago and not at end of the season....

Actually this is wrong. In the past most class changes have been near the end of the season. This is probably why you are seeing these threads now because all buffs/class/skill changes have been near the end of the season. You can go back to the announcement threads and verify this. My guess though is that any changes will be towards rogues even though they don't need any. Season 3 had changes to warriors and season 4 had changes for mages. So following this trend, one would assume rogues are next.

[Bless]

If devs believe that mages are underpowered they would have done something months ago and not at end of the season....

Actually this is wrong. In the past most class changes have been near the end of the season. This is probably why you are seeing these threads now because all buffs/class/skill changes have been near the end of the season. You can go back to the announcement threads and verify this. My guess though is that any changes will be towards rogues even though they don't need any. Season 3 had changes to warriors and season 4 had changes for mages. So following this trend, one would assume rogues are next.

Thanks for the clarification falm!

I still think they should do the balancing at start of each season so all bugs etc can be fixed instead of us waiting a long time whilst they work on expansiin

[Striderevil]

I agree to all accept Ice. ice has slow and freeze. Though slow is present Freeze should be as well instead of stun. Its kinda the same thing anyways. Also would help by bypass their stun 7 sec invulnerability like panic.

[Nesox]

I would be fine with armour/health that makes us more than a one/two combo without our shield up, and a heal that actually heals fully. Either way damage needs to go way up to make up for being so easy to kill; or Health/armour needs a buff to help keep us alive longer at a lesser damage rate; or stuns need to return and we rely on stun locks to stay alive. The skills are pretty good as is if I only lived long enough to use them.

[Jig]

I would be fine with armour/health that makes us more than a one/two combo without our shield up, and a heal that actually heals fully. Either way damage needs to go way up to make up for being so easy to kill; or Health/armour needs a buff to help keep us alive longer at a lesser damage rate; or stuns need to return and we rely on stun locks to stay alive. The skills are pretty good as is if I only lived long enough to use them.

I agree on this, Heal skill needs to charge faster, and give wayyyy more health, well if we are to give mages more health then give the heal skill much more healing. I'm a mage player, in all games, in pl, they made int mage crappy, just as they release 36 now they make mages crappy in this game.. y u hate wizzies so much sts!

[Alhuntrazeck]

Exactly. When rogues stop asking for buffs and nerfs, mages somewhat feel the need to go on and on about getting buffs when they are infact flawed - wether in the sense that they are ungeared appropriately vs full mythic players or that they want to be able to kill both other classes easily in 4 seconds...

Alhunt my friend, its not that mages are weak, its maybe your gear :/ I have crap gear and I accept that fact and therefore dont complain when I get killed by somebody better geared because I know that they have an advantage over gear. I've had to gear up with mythics 3 times which cost me 50m easily, and thats the reason I have just mythic helm and armor now.

5 buffs on mages? Thats more buffs than the rogue has ever gotten (significant buffs) since pvp started. It would be silly to implement even 2 of those as your and my definition of balanced is when yours or my class is OP.

Lets just say that in a fair 5v5 all classes are balanced, because in fact they are balanced, try a 5v5 with two warriors, two/one mage and two/one rogue and you'll see my point.


Now lets just stop with all this

I get your point. However, the armor buff upgrade on Lifegiver benefits not just the mage but his party members - wouldn't that be a great upgrade to have?

Just FYI I know I'm not the best mage, I know I can never get gear some people have but by the end of the day its all the same; mages are (usually) the first to die in a 5v5. An armor boost would work marvels - our armor is laughable at this stage. Buffing it would just prevent us from being 1 hit as often, it wouldn't significantly tip the scales towards mages IMHO.

The reason why rogues haven't got many buffs is, IMO, they were already very strong to begin with. But mages were nerfed to the point of them being pretty much useless.

Half of my suggestions don't need to b implemented. Just the armor buff (either in heals upgrade or base stats) and possibly an arcane staff buff would be good because lets be frank, an arcane staff is
pretty much nothing but a pretty stick with a purple Tinkerbell floating around you.

Peace

[Limsi]

For the love of the game, there's no such thing as one hit skill from aimed shot unless the one on the receiving end is totally under-geared.

@Alhunt: I do agree on the buffing of the mage's heal. I believe that they should be the one with the best heal in game which is a compensation to their low armor. Also a little boost on armor would be a good way to buff them up!

[Bless]

For the love of the game, there's no such thing as one hit skill from aimed shot unless the one on the receiving end is totally under-geared.

@Alhunt: I do agree on the buffing of the mage's heal. I believe that they should be the one with the best heal in game which is a compensation to their low armor. Also a little boost on armor would be a good way to buff them up!

Yep. No one hits.