Economic woes of inflation in the land of Arlor....

[Rare]

The problem is that we tried this in season 4 and it resulted in huge numbers of players getting bored after 2 months and everyone stopped farming elites.

Yeah... the solution isn't going to come from locked crates. I'm sorry. That's what caused the mess. Fast track to top gear. Oh... the best gear is Mythic Weapon, armor, helm, pendant, and ring? Why farm for this other crap that isn't worth anything (gameplay wise) when I can get these mythic items for relatively cheap? With the upgraded last season taking it to the pinnacle of futility. The most boring season in AL. Seriously, check out the video Ghost posted.

With so many players decked out in full mythic and a large divide between them and the players that couldn't afford them, it wasn't worth it to farm elites. And hardly anyone did.

[FluffNStuff]

The arcane ring cost 100m because an increasing number of players are now super rich and have more than 100m, and many of these players have so much gold that they don't know what to do with it, so they can offer gold cap for this item that they really want. Normally the price on an item like this would be high for a very short period of time, and then drop once those few super wealthy players have made their purchase. That is what happened with both the Kershal & Maul, and with Samael and Singe. But I don't see that happening this time around. I think the price will stay at 100m for the remainder of the season if no changes are made. There are enough super wealthy players who can afford that high price.

The reason for the increasing number of super wealthy players is the gold coming in locked crates. That is the only big change we have seen in gold being added to the game since its inception. Last summer some gold influx into the economy was needed to jump start things. Now farming is very healthy and I see tons of people running elites. The elite legendary items that the mid-level players use have a nice healthy price which encourages farming. The problem is only with these super high priced arcane and mythic items (like the razorbacks). So to solve the problem, you must cause these super rare items to drop in price without causing the elite legendary items to drop in price. That would be the goal.

How exactly would causing the price of super rare items that ... for the sake of argument some ~other player can't afford~ ... of course without effecting the price of those items that these random other players happen to be selling ... oh for .... sake I can't even pretend to take this seriously!!!!!

[Kakashis]

I agree to that whole list especially removing hammerjaw and glacian. Arcane pet at 6-7M is a JOKE and does those pets zero justice.

[Energizeric]

The way I see it is people are using locked crates as gold ATMs. They feed in enough cash either to loot what they want or loot enough to sell and buy what they want. Its not uncommon to hear stories of people spending 10k-20k plat. And I am sure there are plenty of people spending more. The other problem which most people don't seem to realize is crafting is inflating the price. To craft an arcane ring, people are spending 300 plat so they don't have to wait 5 days. Then spending plat on getting all exceptional gems. So these people are expecting a return on their plat investment.

I expect this is the same thing will happen on the next round of mythics. Because I expect that they will need to be crafted. Because it seems like STS wants you to pay 3 times on one item. Looting, crafting, upgrading. Because of this, the price on rare items will continue to rise.

It would be nice if they added some sort of gold sink to this crafting process. I'm sure Zeus would not have cared if he had to pay 5m to an NPC for some sort of crafting component as he would have passed that cost along to the customer, but it would have resulted in 5m leaving the game which would be a good thing.


Guys, I'm not trying to cause the price of anything to go down or up. What I am trying to do is create some stability. With the current trend, next season the best arcane item will cost 200m, and the season after it will cost 500m and it will never stop. Too much gold is being added to the game, and that will only increase when they release new mythics as more players will open locked crates to get those items, thus releasing more gold into the economy and creating even more inflation. I would not be surprised if the new mythic items coming end up costing 20m+ each, which is more than double what the level 30/31 mythics cost when they were first released, and more than triple what the level 26 mythic helms originally cost when they were new. We need to stop this inflation.

[octavos]

How exactly would causing the price of super rare items that ... for the sake of argument some ~other player can't afford~ ... of course without effecting the price of those items that these random other players happen to be selling ... oh for .... sake I can't even pretend to take this seriously!!!!!

couldn't help it XD.

[Energizeric]

I also don't see prices dropping so low on these items they need to be curbed.

You don't see prices dropping? Runic gun was 10m when first released, then went down to 5m for a while, then down to 2-3m where it was until last month, and now 1.5m. Level 30 mythic amulets were 6-8m when first released, then dropped to 2-4m where they were until the end of season 4, then dropped to around 600k-1m last season, and now you can get one for 250k.

Soon when new mythic items are released there is going to be a flood of the older mythics on the market as no end game players are going to need them, and the price on some of those items like the amulets that still come in locked crates are going to go under 100k. If I were a crate opener and I finally managed to loot a mythic item and I found out it was the one that cost 50k instead of the new one that cost 20m, I'm going to be very upset.

There is already enough of those older mythics in circulation to satisfy the twink population. You can safely lower the drop rate or remove them from locked crates all together. Remember that they still will come in elite golden chests. Once the end game legendary gear has better stats than these older mythics, it is time to discontinue those older items from locked crates IMO.

[Kellhus]

Yea so you complain bc items don't cost 10 m now but on other hand ppl complain only the rich are holding gold and prices are inflated. So which problem you want to fix? Sorry but if 85% of people can't afford these items what do you think will happen? Someone said last season was the most boring, well I've never heard so many complain the same so early after an update this seaon or about the crap stats on new gear and ridiculous prices. To me, not being one of those ppl with the highest possible gear in every category, trying to get a number of runs n new elites that would provide fruitful is difficult. And if i happened to get something other than a common item for my reward, the new gear just isn't that great and only ppl with expendable cash might buy them. So what's left to do, farm teeth. Zzzz. Going back to last season, it was pretty boring which is why i hid out in twinks, most notably the reason for not having stacks of cash, but ik many who did the same and are only just now buying their myths and upgrading. So ok, maybe the are alot out there, but what happens when their price increases again, those middle class players can't afford, again, and the money and items sit there getting dusty. Isn't part of the solution to get the gold circulating? Not only amongst the rich but to others as well. Idk im sure my opinion counts as naught bc after all I'm not one of the elite wealthy.

Edit: and item prices always drop as time goes by so shouldnt be a suprise things aren't as expensive as they use to be.

Sorry, one more thing. How do you know there won't be another upgrade to current myth gear? Are you hoarding secrets? :-P
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[falmear]

It would be nice if they added some sort of gold sink to this crafting process. I'm sure Zeus would not have cared if he had to pay 5m to an NPC for some sort of crafting component as he would have passed that cost along to the customer, but it would have resulted in 5m leaving the game which would be a good thing.

My issue is you should be able to craft the ring right away at no cost. Costing 300 plat to buy off the timer is a bad idea. And buying off the timer on upgrades is also a bad idea. This is part of the price inflation problem. In one of the original threads I stated this would be a problem where people could spend plat to turn over a profit upgrading items. Right now there are many avenues for people to convert plat to gold. Buy vanities, weapons or elixirs from the store and sell them for gold. Open crates and the sell loot for gold. Crafting & upgrades to buy off timer to sell items for gold. I have done well this season so I don't have a lot to complain about. I could buy a ring if I wanted to, but I don't feel the price is justified. So I'll wait and see what happens.

[Energizeric]

My issue is you should be able to craft the ring right away at no cost. Costing 300 plat to buy off the timer is a bad idea. And buying off the timer on upgrades is also a bad idea. This is part of the price inflation problem. In one of the original threads I stated this would be a problem where people could spend plat to turn over a profit upgrading items. Right now there are many avenues for people to convert plat to gold. Buy vanities, weapons or elixirs from the store and sell them for gold. Open crates and the sell loot for gold. Crafting & upgrades to buy off timer to sell items for gold. I have done well this season so I don't have a lot to complain about. I could buy a ring if I wanted to, but I don't feel the price is justified. So I'll wait and see what happens.

That's because people have no patience. If I had the money I'd just buy the shard and craft my own ring and I'd wait the 5 days, and then I'd take to time to gem it even if it takes a few weeks to get perfect. I would not spend any plat to do it.

[falmear]

That's because people have no patience. If I had the money I'd just buy the shard and craft my own ring and I'd wait the 5 days, and then I'd take to time to gem it even if it takes a few weeks to get perfect. I would not spend any plat to do it.

I don't think its about patience. Its about being first to market and trying to command whatever price you desire. Most of these rings are being resold, so to have them fully gemmed means someone spent a bunch of plat to make that happen. I believe going forward this is the model STS wants to charge us for looting an item (locked), crafting an item (shard), upgrading an item (exceptional gems). If you see how much plat is extracted on just one item, then this makes total sense. Basically this is a tax on the crafting/upgrade system. And in my eyes this is why arcane & mythics cost so much now. You have a tiered system, shard is worth X, crafted clean ring is worth X+Y, an upgraded ring is worth X+Y+Z. People were saying this would help the casual player, but it doesn't. It only helps the people who are spending plat to upgrade these items and turn them around for a profit. And this isn't just on the arcane ring but its on legendary and mythic items too.

[Hectororius]

This would explain why they have made elixirs tradable. They were no longer drawing the plat they used to command and the upgrade system has become the new plat sink for plat spenders, so they give it a last hurrah via kit sales and move on to creating other ways for players to spend their money on the game.

Unfortunately this has created the divide between plat and not plat spenders that no amount of hard work will allow the casual/dedicated farmer to ever reach the lofty goals of obtaining New mythic and arcane items.

The economy is failing because there is no interest in the new elite items and worse, farming them isn't even all that exciting or its overly difficult. Or maybe I'm just burnt out. Or maybe I've spent too much time in these forums and its numbed any joy the game used to bring.

[Kellhus]

This would explain why they have made elixirs tradable. They were no longer drawing the plat they used to command and the upgrade system has become the new plat sink for plat spenders, so they give it a last hurrah via kit sales and move on to creating other ways for players to spend their money on the game.

Unfortunately this has created the divide between plat and not plat spenders that no amount of hard work will allow the casual/dedicated farmer to ever reach the lofty goals of obtaining New mythic and arcane items.

The economy is failing because there is no interest in the new elite items and worse, farming them isn't even all that exciting or its overly difficult. Or maybe I'm just burnt out. Or maybe I've spent too much time in these forums and its numbed any joy the game used to bring.

+1

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[Energizeric]

I don't think its about patience. Its about being first to market and trying to command whatever price you desire. Most of these rings are being resold, so to have them fully gemmed means someone spent a bunch of plat to make that happen. I believe going forward this is the model STS wants to charge us for looting an item (locked), crafting an item (shard), upgrading an item (exceptional gems). If you see how much plat is extracted on just one item, then this makes total sense. Basically this is a tax on the crafting/upgrade system. And in my eyes this is why arcane & mythics cost so much now. You have a tiered system, shard is worth X, crafted clean ring is worth X+Y, an upgraded ring is worth X+Y+Z. People were saying this would help the casual player, but it doesn't. It only helps the people who are spending plat to upgrade these items and turn them around for a profit. And this isn't just on the arcane ring but its on legendary and mythic items too.

Unfortunately if we start making suggestions that will result in less plat being spent, STS is not going to listen. In order for our suggestions to be considered, we have to make suggestions that won't hurt their business model. So while I do not disagree with your analysis, I think it would be a waste of our effort to discuss that here. Instead we have to suggest other changes that can be made to make things improve. It is never going to be perfect with a "free to play" model.

[Energizeric]

This would explain why they have made elixirs tradable. They were no longer drawing the plat they used to command and the upgrade system has become the new plat sink for plat spenders, so they give it a last hurrah via kit sales and move on to creating other ways for players to spend their money on the game.

Unfortunately this has created the divide between plat and not plat spenders that no amount of hard work will allow the casual/dedicated farmer to ever reach the lofty goals of obtaining New mythic and arcane items.

The economy is failing because there is no interest in the new elite items and worse, farming them isn't even all that exciting or its overly difficult. Or maybe I'm just burnt out. Or maybe I've spent too much time in these forums and its numbed any joy the game used to bring.

I'd love to hear what your suggestions are to fix these problems. Again, making suggestions that result in less plat sales is not going to happen, so please keep the scope of your suggestions to things that does not involve plat. There are plenty of games that use the subscription model instead of the "free to play" model, and suggesting that STS change their game to that is like saying you don't like baseball and to fix it they should make it more like football. That is not going to happen.

[Kellhus]

Dont think anyone is suggesting less plat ideas rather something needs to be done to even they playing field or at least make it viable for non plat users while still encouraging play people to spend. Difficult one.

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[Energizeric]

Dont think anyone is suggesting less plat ideas rather something needs to be done to even they playing field or at least make it viable for non plat users while still encouraging play people to spend. Difficult one.

Problem is nobody is going to spend unless it gives them a noticeable advantage by doing so.

FYI, I am NOT a big plat spender, but I do spend some plat. I do not open locked crates, and only spend plat on elixirs and an occasional vanity item or pet. Somehow I have managed to save up lots of gold and buy some of the elite mythic & arcane items. I don't have every item I would like to have, nor would I ever want to have everything or else the game would quickly become boring. But I will admit that I have some skill as a merchant and also spend tons of time farming, probably more than the average casual player can spend.

As with any game, those who spend more time are going to have an advantage. Plat basically saves you time. It makes everything happen faster. So if you cannot spend plat AND you cannot spend lots of time, then you can't really be successful. And that goes for everything in life, not just this game. If you don't have money, you better be prepared to work very hard.

[Kellhus]

Ofc they will always be an advantage to spending real money and anyone who begrudges that is silly. I'm like you i dont spend heaps of plats but i do spend some. Tbh idk what should be done other than something needs to be because i see alot of disheartened people now days which is not good for the game either.

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[Hectororius]

I'm not going to suggest anything to fix the game since that appears to have gotten us in the current predicament we are in now.

As with any game, those who spend more time are going to have an advantage. Plat basically saves you time. It makes everything happen faster. So if you cannot spend plat AND you cannot spend lots of time, then you can't really be successful. And that goes for everything in life, not just this game. If you don't have money, you better be prepared to work very hard.

And just like in real life, you can work as hard as you want, but if you don't catch a lucky break sometimes, your hard work will be fruitless and for nothing.

[faefaefae]

Last year we had a big discussion about the economic woes of Arlor in this thread:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...y-in-Recession


As a result of this discussion, and based partly on my recommendation in this post....

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...=1#post1150294

....the dynamics of locked crates were changed to be what they currently are.


This change solved many of the problems the economy was suffering from last year and added a much needed influx of gold into the economy to help boost prices of legendary and mythic items at a time when prices on everything were dropping fast.

As you may remember, prices on mythic weapons had dropped to under 1.5m at a time when they were still the best weapons, and the best legendary weapons were selling for under 200k. The influx of gold helped to stabilize these prices and boost the economy.

Now these changes have caused a new unwanted problem....inflation. As a result of the continued influx of gold, prices on the very high end arcane items and the best mythic weapons have continued to increase. I was wondering why the same did not happen to legendary items as well, and then I realized the answer.... The influx of gold is from locked crates, and therefore mostly goes to wealthy players who open large amounts of locked crates. Since these players are only in the market for the best gear, those items are the only ones that have seen this huge price increase. We have now reached a point where single items are selling for 100m, and I think we can all agree that this is a bit ridiculous. When STS originally increased gold cap up to 100m, I don't think anyone anticipated this.

So what is the solution? How do you lower the prices on these very high end items without lowering the prices on lower end items? Remember that any solution that STS agrees to implement cannot discourage plat spending or the opening of locked crates. Expecting them to agree to any such solution would not be reasonable.

What we really need is a gold sink to remove extra gold from circulation, but the problem is that most middle class players cannot afford to have another gold sink. So unless we implement a new Arlor progressive income tax on the rich, this is not a viable solution....

So here is my proposed solution:

Once again we must adjust the dynamics of locked crates....

1) Lower the amount of gold rewards in locked crates... do not lower the smaller 2k gold rewards, but lower the chances of getting the larger gold rewards, and perhaps even eliminate the largest of those rewards from the drop table.

2) Boost the drop rates of the newest and highest priced Arcane items. I'm not talking a huge increase in drop rate here, but enough to cause an increase in supply of these items which will help to lower their prices a bit.

3) Lower the drop rates of older Mythic and Arcane items. There is no need for items no longer used at end game to still be dropping from locked crates at high frequency. All this does is create a surplus of these items, and with not very much demand out there, these items will continue to drop in price. Someone who finally loots a mythic item from a locked crate only to find out that it is worth 200k is NOT going to be very happy. Lowering the drop rates on these older items will help keep the prices higher. That, in combination with the boost in drop rates on the more popular newer items will make more players happy with the drops they get from locked crates.

4) Remove the oldest Arcane Pets, Hammerjaw and Glacian, from locked crates. Their mythic counterparts Ripmaw and Slag have long been discontinued from the plat store, so no reason the arcane versions should still be dropping from locked crates. Nobody opening a locked crate is happy when they loot an arcane item only to find out it is the one worth 6m and not the one worth 20-50m.

5) Remove scaling of legendary items from locked crates. Because legendary items scale to the level of the user, we are left with a situation where there are too many end game legendary crate items dropping, causing the prices of even the best ones to drop to less than 1k. Today you can buy a level 41 expedition rifle of brutality for 500 gold -- this is currently the best sorcerer gun. Then you have players who have created twinks to open locked crates and get items at popular twink pvp levels. I suggest every legendary item should be random as to which level it is, and then crate items for both end game and popular twink levels cannot be farmed in the same way, and will then be more rare and will be worth more money, and this will make them more of a reward when they are looted. I would suggest making the odds lean more towards end game items since there is obviously more demand for those, but still make it random so that even an end game player can loot that popular level 18 expedition bow. And just as a level 10 player can loot a level 36 Ker'Shal Scepter, they can also loot a level 41 expedition rifle.

I think these adjustments should help stabilize and lower prices on the most expensive stuff, while at the same time making locked crates more desired.

Any thoughts?

Your ideas are always brilliant. I agree with each of your suggestions.

To immediately alleviate the problem of inflation, a 'gold sink' has to be created so that 'extra gold' can be taken out from the economy. As you have said, we need to take into account the interest of STS when making any suggestion of this kind. Here is my suggestion:

We all know new mythics are coming. There may be new lv 41 mythic weapons, mythic armor, mythic helm and mythic amulet. Why not make one of them directly purchasable in AL store for a large amount of gold? For example, a new mythic amulet can be purchased from store for $15m gold (not plat) and this amulet cannot be looted from lock. This will absorb a large amount of gold from the economy and can alleviate the inflation problem immediately. As other mythic gear can only be looted from locks or other elite chests, implementing this suggestion will not affect STS's income as plat spenders will keep popping locks to loot those items.

[Kellhus]

Your ideas are always brilliant. I agree with each of your suggestions.

To immediately alleviate the problem of inflation, a 'gold sink' has to be created so that 'extra gold' can be taken out from the economy. As you have said, we need to take into account the interest of STS when making any suggestion of this kind. Here is my suggestion:

We all know new mythics are coming. There may be new lv 41 mythic weapons, mythic armor, mythic helm and mythic amulet. Why not make one of them directly purchasable in AL store for a large amount of gold? For example, a new mythic amulet can be purchased from store for $15m gold (not plat) and this amulet cannot be looted from lock. This will absorb a large amount of gold from the economy and can alleviate the inflation problem immediately. As other mythic gear can only be looted from locks or other elite chests, implementing this suggestion will not affect STS's income as plat spenders will keep popping locks to loot those items.

Thats not a bad idea.

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