Regarding Class Balance.

[Yumisa]

Another thing is that nearlly EVERYONE complains about ''ganging''...This is one of the most stupid dramas i hear about everyday...I think everyone should be meant to work as a team in pvp and gang whoever they can...If everyone is meant to do that, then no one can complain about 1vs1 rogue is OP or 1vs3 omg stop ganging me or i will call my friends and we will gang you.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Warriors often have higher damage than mages with VB active. This helps them tanking how?

[Bellaelda]

Mages need help in pvp and tanks need help in pve.



Kalizza posted some great ideas on tanks for pve which would seriously help them get back in the game in another post here. This would open up end game pve soo much for tanks and would seriously help the problem with end game tanks getting bored and leaving game or changing class...

The source of the issue is why Tanks aren't really welcomed in party. It all comes down to the fact that Warriors don't save much in the way of ankh (which is the real currency for elite, since pots are just the cost of doing business) because many mobs and bosses one-hit, tank or no tank, yet their presence slow down runs tremendously.

The solution in my mind is to have Warriors deal massive debuffs on armor, hit %, damage, etc. AND strong party buffs. If a Warrior can debuff mobs and bosses enough that there is no appreciable difference in overall run times, AND their presence can save you some pots/ankh, then the entire dynamic of tanking changes. If I can save some pots and ankh but still farm at the same rate, then my preference would be to have a tank. But, when I'm paying 30-40k or 12 plat for DMG, DMG Reduction and Reroll kits every 30 minutes, the Warrior penalty means I get in one or two fewer runs than with a full DPS party, so the cost per run increases by as much as 40%!

Here is an idea on skill upgrades:
VB: Extend buff to entire party
RC: Double the buff time
WM: Extend attack range, mobs/bosses hit get a -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
SS: 50% Damage reduction to affected mobs/boss for 6 seconds (10 if charged)
HoR: Panic mobs in range
AT: -30% armor debuff for 6 seconds
CS: 100% interruption of windup on bosses! 100% stun!
Jug: Damage taken while skill is active is also reflected back on the attacking mob/boss


Obviously, these added effects would only apply to PvE, but if these were added, why wouldn't DPS players want to run with tanks?

And basically mages need better stuns or our skills to work (as half of them don't work in pvp), stun immunity and some sort of shield extension as right now people just wait the cpl seconds our shield is up and then bam dead. Mage damage output is not high enough to kill anyone basically before our shield goes down and we dead. There's too many good ideas to fix this that I've seen to pick just one, but they've been promising to fix this for years and years now, and the problem is acknowledged, it just keeps getting postponed again and again...
Most end game pvp makes have just given up game or changed class as well.

Apparently other classes just don't matter enough for them to finally get either of these things addressed as the community has been addressing these problems for years.

Gg... Have fun enjoying both pve and pvp rogues of AL

The rest of the population will just sit on the sidelines and be bored

[Rx8]

Attachment 121268

I just cannot explain how this has made MY WEEKEND GO AL IZZ WELL!

[Schnitzel]

I've been playing BC lately (I know this is AL discussion, but let me explain)

What I've been doing in battles is sending Tanks first (They don't do very much damage, but can take a lot of damage, and can keep enemy defenses attacking them)
behind the Tanks, I send the Spies (not a lot of health/armor, but a lot of damage)
behind the Spies, I send my other troops (Medics, drones, cyborgs, etc.) more than 3/4 of the time, I win battles. (others are because i forgot the enemy anti-air defenses)

Why are you talking about BC?
What if the AL Warriors were like the BC Tanks (Not too much damage, but a lot of health so they could take the damage)
AL Rogues were like the BC Spies (very high damage, but low health/armor)
AL Sorcerers were like the other troops (Medium damage, a little more health/armor than rogues)

So whats the point?
This would mean that Warriors are required to take the damage from enemies, but because of their low damage, Rogues are required in the PT to deal damage, but because Rogues have low health/armor, they require Warriors to keep them alive; all while Sorcerers are helping deal damage as well as supporting warriors and rogues by killing a few enemies and adding health/mana to the warriors and rogues.

Your Thoughts?

[Kriticality]

Right now with max gear characters from high to low

Armor : tank, rogue, mage

Health : tank, mage, rogue

Damage : mage, rogue, tank

[Migzorille]

And the thing is, you rarely see 3 warriors on each time. People usually leave those games. Just like you said, if people played CTF the right way, this whole PVP thing would be fine.

I saw once a game of 5 warriors on one side and 2 warriors,2rougues and 1 mage on other side

[Caabatric]

Right now with max gear characters from high to low

Armor : tank, rogue, mage

Health : tank, mage, rogue

Damage : mage, rogue, tank

Going by stat screen yes, by actual damage output rogues do more damage.

Looking at the new gems caraspace is making and the expectancy of a new skill system, I would say mages don't really need the buff.

[Migzorille]

Right now with max gear characters from high to low

Armor : tank, rogue, mage

Health : tank, mage, rogue

Damage : mage, rogue, tank

In paper mages have higher damage but with crit counted rougues can do bigger damage

[Kriticality]

Lightning has 250% crit damage too. The point of the post was to focus balance in skills. I lose 120 damage from my screen 657 damage to 537 in pvp. I also have 1734 armor and for Mages that think an armor buff will help them, they are wrong. I still get 1 shot sometimes. Again, extend shield invulnerability to 3 secs and give 4-5 secs stun immunity to mage shield and take away knockback. Easy buff, doesn't sound like much but it would be significant for sure. 50% crit Mages can easily fireball lightning me in one combo. I also have 4400 health. Some of the issue is that I think more rogues are max geared than Mages too. They are by no means weak. Mages complaining about being one shot is very prominent in rogue on rogue violence as well. Rogue and mage generally target opposing rogue first. The I get one shot when my shield goes down doesn't hold much weight imo. I can get one shot almost anytime unless I have a tank or hide behind a mage with shield up.

[nevercan]

Right now with max gear characters from high to low

Armor : tank, rogue, mage

Health : tank, mage, rogue

Damage : mage, rogue, tank

Mages have les hp then rouges same as dmg just letting you know.

[Hispie]

Warriors are too op at low levels.

[Hispie]

Also they got more damage than rogues as well as hp and armor.

[Kriticality]

Mages have les hp then rouges same as dmg just letting you know.

As my post says with max geared characters you are incorrect. Rogues sit around 5k hp whereas Mages reach closer to 5.5k hp. Rogues can just break 800 damage with full paragem and 3 eye setup in pve. Mages can reach 900+ in pve AND pvp. Of course if the pets carry 10% dmg bonus then in pvp rogues sit ~20% lower damage in pvp as what you see in town. You have any non elixir pics you can share?

[nevercan]

As my post says with max geared characters you are incorrect. Rogues sit around 5k hp whereas Mages reach closer to 5.5k hp. Rogues can just break 800 damage with full paragem and 3 eye setup in pve. Mages can reach 900+ in pve AND pvp. Of course if the pets carry 10% dmg bonus then in pvp rogues sit ~20% lower damage in pvp as what you see in town. You have any non elixir pics you can share?

Try a max geared rouge 1 aimed at a tank without crit and let the maz geared mage do a lightning, rouge wil definitely do more dmg
And rouges dmg nerf is 15% not 20%

[Kriticality]

My damage nerf is 657 to 537. ~18%. You are talking about skills, not raw damage. If you're saying aimed is better than lightning all things included, I agree.
My mage has 540 dmg. Light is 995-1244
My rogue has 537 in pvp. Aimed is 947-1183.
With armor debuff aimed is better skill.

[nevercan]

My damage nerf is 657 to 537. ~18%. You are talking about skills, not raw damage. If you're saying aimed is better than lightning all things included, I agree.
My mage has 540 dmg. Light is 995-1244
My rogue has 537 in pvp. Aimed is 947-1183.
With armor debuff aimed is better skill.

Even without armor debuf.

[Murveil]

I have played both mage and rogue in pvp. I sometimes find playing as a mage is easier then being a rogue. As a rogue I get oneshoted by other rogues as well as stunned and killed by mages instantly. As a rogue I don't feel as safe as when I play with my mage with the shield. I don't care about OP gears. If you want to kill a better geared player just spend the same amount of time or money the other person spent playing this game. Don't compare op geared player to a normal geared player. Thats just plain stupid and shows how ignorant you are. As a player who played all 3 class at 41 lvl (PvP), and al of them had myth/arcane weap and myth sets \, I think there really is no need for any debuffs or buffs for any class in PvP aspect. As a mage I could kill wars with myth gear and weap as well as win in a 1v1 against rogues.

[Kriticality]

Even without armor debuf.

I'm not sure your point. Rogues are supposed to deal most damage to single targets. Mages have more hp and damage as I said before. You refuted and I see no evidence. Aimed shot is better than light. It's silly that all these numbers are thrown out without proof. Show me a rogue max gear end game that has more hp and damage than arry or voorg or seven. Who are you referring to when you correct me? Mages pvp situation is not nearly as dire as some Mages here would have you believe. Tanks pve situation at end game is a lot worse imo. Geared mages at end game are op. 50% crit on mage? They have more crit, damage, health, and close armor as mythic set/arcane ring rogues. They have more crit, damage, health and less armor than imbued/arcane ring rogues. There are no rogues in pvp that have more in all categories than Mages.
There should be some adjustments to be made in skills I agree, but stats are not the answer. Pics or it didn't happen. I'm happy to retract my opinion if there is proof otherwise. Maybe there is a rogue I haven't seen before.

[Zynzyn]

We dont need one class to do what another class does or get the abilities and stats of other classes. Our skills and stats are designed according to our classic roles and we have our strengths and weaknesses. What we need is a chance to play together and be an effective team. Talking about pvp, we must not forget that tdm and ctf are team oriented games which require the classes to play together. But for the 3 classes to have a will to play together instead of doing class vs class matches and comparing one class with another, we need an incentive to play together.

That being said, I believe sts should give us team wins and losses score for ctf and tdm (since they are obviously team games) instead of a personal kill/death record. And secondly, give us a same class-same level dueling arena and a personal kill death score for that dueling arena so that mage can vs mage and rogue can vs rogue and tank can vs tank only.