Venom Guild Post (LONG POST)

[Banned]

I get what your saying. I personally don't mind the price, but I just feel bad for the casual players that just wanna start a guild to have easier communication with their farming buddies. Maybe have something where you pay 5 million to get a guild hall, 500 guild member slots, guild bank, and a guild chat channel to go along with your guild. And the casual guys can pay 1 million to get 30 guild member slots and a guild chat channel.

[Furrawn]

Well, I disagree 5 million is really not that much, also think about what would happen if making a guild was easy, players would make them just to make them, and there would be no prestige of making a guild or no work to get one going and keep it going. IT IS A LOT OF WORK!!!!!!




Well, I thank you for rephrasing your statement, however you were wrong about saying that my guild was large, currently we are at 8 members, with a few applicants. It doesnt take a large guild to pay that price.

Lol I think that your guild plays differently than some of us though. I play a lot. An hour to three hours a day but I couldn't come up with $500K on my own as my share. I'd feel like I was just playing for gold every second. I don't make anywhere near the money your guild members make I could sell things but that's not something I enjoy. I already have a leader for auctions/selling when I make a guild because that's not my strength

I agree that it should not be TOO easy... But nor do I think it should be near impossible. Why not half a million to start a guild and dues of 25K for each guild member? And maybe a required minimum percentage of lvl 35s for each guild charter?

Just ideas...


Mobdropper-
Thx

As for password games, couldn't the devs maybe make an extra button under password on the create game that says invited so only invited can join that game. Whereas the mere password game is simply restricted to known friends?

[Xanthia]

I get what your saying. I personally don't mind the price, but I just feel bad for the casual players that just wanna start a guild to have easier communication with their farming buddies. Maybe have something where you pay 5 million to get a guild hall, 500 guild member slots, guild bank, and a guild chat channel to go along with your guild. And the casual guys can pay 1 million to get 30 guild member slots and a guild chat channel.

Honestly, guilds are not for just players who want an easier communication. There has to be some anterior motive. I guess if they want to shell out the cash they can have that, but making a guild and being a guild leader is a privilege not a right. This is something that I hope ST will make something worth while and benefit the members, so that the price tag will be able to reflect the worth.

[Justg]

We've all read this post, it offers a lot of great ideas, some controversial ones, and some strong opinions.

Great (if lengthy) communication ;-)

We take everyone's opinions and feedback into consideration, and balance it with our own vision, bandwidth, and priorities.

I'll tell you this though, the sky is the limit for what this game can grow into!

[Xanthia]

We've all read this post, it offers a lot of great ideas, some controversial ones, and some strong opinions.

Great (if lengthy) communication ;-)

We take everyone's opinions and feedback into consideration, and balance it with our own vision, bandwidth, and priorities.

I'll tell you this though, the sky is the limit for what this game can grow into!

THE SKY IS THE LIMIT.......BEST thing I have heard!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kirei]

THE SKY IS THE LIMIT.......BEST thing I have heard!!!!!!!!!!!

you mean since sliced bread of course? right? RIGHT??

[Rebel]

I think that it would be more catchy if you said that Space was the limit considering that you are Spacetime. Just saying

[Justg]

lol okay... SPACE is the limit. (Blackstar, anyone?)

[Mobdropper]

Honestly, guilds are not for just players who want an easier communication. There has to be some anterior motive. I guess if they want to shell out the cash they can have that, but making a guild and being a guild leader is a privilege not a right. This is something that I hope ST will make something worth while and benefit the members, so that the price tag will be able to reflect the worth.

As to your first point, I have to strongly strongly disagree. Guilds can be anything to anyone. You can not strike down the hammer and say, 'guilds must be this, guilds must be that.'. That is the same type of language that furrawn was talking about earlier, with Venom thinking that they make the rules. Maybe to YOU guilds are as you stated, but not to everyone. And should people not be allowed to make a guild if they don't conform to your guild creation standards? I think not.

Guilds should not cost cash, never ever. Not unless it's some meager sum like 1,000 gold. Being 'privileged' enough to make and/or lead a guild should not be about how much cash you have, once again - never ever. Some of us should come down off our high horses and consider the casual players and/or people that do not horde gold because they give all their spare items to friends.

I would much rather see a scenario where a group of people has to EARN the ability to make a guild, NOT buy it. Like a set of five maps where a group has to start from the first map and work their way through to the last map, with no skipping allowed, and the last four maps always locked. With different challenges along the way. For example, pots can be used on first two maps but not last three, or can only res at entrance for the first four, and death on the last map requires a revive, etc. Some sort of challenge that will put players skills to the test, NOT their bankrolls. With the final map having a very difficult end boss that drops an item, say a 'totem' that can only be used to make a guild.

Disclaimer:
I do not apologize if my wording was strong.

[Xanthia]

As to your first point, I have to strongly strongly disagree. Guilds can be anything to anyone. You can not strike down the hammer and say, 'guilds must be this, guilds must be that.'. That is the same type of language that furrawn was talking about earlier, with Venom thinking that they make the rules. Maybe to YOU guilds are as you stated, but not to everyone. And should people not be allowed to make a guild if they don't conform to your guild creation standards? I think not.

Guilds should not cost cash, never ever. Not unless it's some meager sum like 1,000 gold. Being 'privileged' enough to make and/or lead a guild should not be about how much cash you have, once again - never ever. Some of us should come down off our high horses and consider the casual players and/or people that do not horde gold because they give all their spare items to friends.

I would much rather see a scenario where a group of people has to EARN the ability to make a guild, NOT buy it. Like a set of five maps where a group has to start from the first map and work their way through to the last map, with no skipping allowed, and the last four maps always locked. With different challenges along the way. For example, pots can be used on first two maps but not last three, or can only res at entrance for the first four, and death on the last map requires a revive, etc. Some sort of challenge that will put players skills to the test, NOT their bankrolls. With the final map having a very difficult end boss that drops an item, say a 'totem' that can only be used to make a guild.

Disclaimer:
I do not apologize if my wording was strong.

Ok, again I am not saying that I make the rules, I am posting my opinion. I don't why there are a few players here who either don't understand what a suggestion forum is for, or don't understand that this is where you voice your opinion the way you want it to be!!!! Honestly, I hate it when games allow TON's of guilds to made because it floods the guild market, and takes away the prestige of being in a guild. I know this is a video game (MMORPG) however if you relate it to life, there is nothing free in life and why should it be that way in the game. Players should not be given every "Privilege" just because they play the game, if players really want to become that Liberal what incentive do hardcore guilds have to want to be the best or have a great guild, if everyone else can have one with VERY MINIMAL effort. Obviously we have two extremely different opinions! Next, guild halls are the target "suggestion" of our post, and why should they be easily obtainable. I know you think you have to account for the casual player, however replay ability is the biggest thing lacking in the game right now, so making things easier does not help that fact. If what your proposing about guilds is that they should be practically free and easily obtainable. This would just lead to everyone have everything again, and everyone would be bored because the casual players would still have everything the hardcore players have. The perfect game can balance hardcore players and casual players needs and wants. Right now this game caters to the casual players, there is absolutely nothing for me to do in the game right now. (I love this game though) To be honest, guilds like ours (Venom) has more of a reason to get frustrated and upset as many of the players have who have expressed their feelings in this post that are casual players. Why? Because this game only caters to casual players, I think players who would say that they would quit or be pissed if the game changed and became more "Complex" or "Hard-core" are honestly being selfish because they have the game strictly made for them currently. Maybe if you were to come over to our side of the fence and see how things were you might have a differing opinion.

Disclaimer:
Wording could have been a lot harsher, however I did not deem necessary.

[Advance]

Although what you might say about guild creation is sound, I don't believe you have to horde gold in order to achieve a sum of 5 million. I do share items, and in return, people share back.

Just like Xanthia said, the current game is TOO easy. End game tier pinks is a matter of a days worth of dedicated farming. Where is the glass ceiling?

This may come across as being elitist, but the non-factors(casual players as you call it) has to stay in line, BEHIND the hardcore players, or else, what's the point of being a hardcore player?

-Adv

[Diz]

Xan I think you underestimate the allure of strong guilds within the community. They lead to healthy competition, too...

[Xanthia]

Xan I think you underestimate the allure of strong guilds within the community. They lead to healthy competition, too...

I do not underestimate them when there is a game structure that allows them to flourish or gives them something to aspire too, however as of right now, there are no guilds (Just stating, I know it has not been released yet) or anything for the hardcore players to do. When this game decides to help cater to this style of players I do think there will be great competition.

[Mobdropper]

Ok, again I am not saying that I make the rules, I am posting my opinion. I don't why there are a few players here who either don't understand what a suggestion forum is for, or don't understand that this is where you voice your opinion the way you want it to be!!!!

I don't under why there are a few players here either don't understand what a suggestion and FEEDBACK forum is for, or don't understand that this is where if you voice your opinion, you will get FEEDBACK!!!!

Honestly, guilds are not for just players who want an easier communication. There has to be some anterior motive.

The above quote does not sound like an opinion, which is to what I was referring.

Honestly, I hate it when games allow TON's of guilds to made because it floods the guild market, and takes away the prestige of being in a guild.

You seem very honest, but in what game does semi-easy guild creation not work it self out like the current pink supply/demand? Also, since there is no end game, or boss mob raids available for PL right now, and max of 5 to a pvp map - it would seem that more than Venom should be allowed to exist, imo. Right now, guilds would be max 5-10 people, since if the "guild" is doing something, everyone else will be left out. Hence, there should and will be many guilds.

I know this is a video game (MMORPG) however if you relate it to life, there is nothing free in life and why should it be that way in the game. Players should not be given every "Privilege" just because they play the game, if players really want to become that Liberal what incentive do hardcore guilds have to want to be the best or have a great guild, if everyone else can have one with VERY MINIMAL effort.

Please, let's not relate it to life - unless you can revive Elvis.

Also, how did my post come across as giving everyone every privilege for playing the game? I made a clear scenario, that would actually make it a challenge to a player's skills instead of a player's bank roll - to make a guild.

Although, I do wonder why you think some people should have special or more privileges than anyone else that plays the game? Sitting in town and spamming selling items for gold, does not special make.

I don't know what incentive you have to be the best or have a great guild, but why do you need incentive to try to achieve something you already desire? Also, since when are great or the best guilds measured by the accumulated wealth of the members therein?

Next, guild halls are the target "suggestion" of our post, and why should they be easily obtainable. I know you think you have to account for the casual player, however replay ability is the biggest thing lacking in the game right now, so making things easier does not help that fact.

Errr, not sure I follow. Please explain to me how a guild hall for 5-10 players results in some sort of replay ability? I would think guild halls would lead to less replay ability, since once a group of people has one, they do not need another. By your logic of needing replay ability, the dev's should instead just forget any thoughts of guild halls and focus on something else.

If what your proposing about guilds is that they should be practically free and easily obtainable. This would just lead to everyone have everything again, and everyone would be bored because the casual players would still have everything the hardcore players have.

Free yes, easy no. Since when is not using pots for three levels or only being able to be resed via a revive spell on the last level of a five map dungeon crawl...easy? I'm not suggesting a bunch of level 35's clear forest haven once or anything...

The perfect game can balance hardcore players and casual players needs and wants. Right now this game caters to the casual players, there is absolutely nothing for me to do in the game right now.

It can, and it will be much more balanced for casual players once questing is introduced. I do not believe this game caters toward casual players though, since pink drop rates are less than significant. However, no game can keep up with the needs/desires of hard core gamers. Everyone that does not live/eat/breathe PL would get left too far behind, and the seldom few extreme hard core would be the only ones left playing the game. Dev's simply can not keep up with extreme hard core players. It takes a lot more work to make and test everything, than it does for hard core players to complete.

I believe a perfect game should give hardcore players a challenge and something for casual gamers to strive towards or obtain, but also not limit either play style. If we had some sort of boss mob raids or 10-15 player instances, this would be great for the hard core and casual player.

To be honest, guilds like ours (Venom) has more of a reason to get frustrated and upset as many of the players have who have expressed their feelings in this post that are casual players. Why? Because this game only caters to casual players, I think players who would say that they would quit or be pissed if the game changed and became more "Complex" or "Hard-core" are honestly being selfish because they have the game strictly made for them currently.

Once again, your honesty simply amazes me. Anyway, why get frustrated or upset if the players who gave you feedback happen to be casual players? Every opinion should be seen from all sides, that of the hard core and that of the casual player. I think the people that threaten quitting as a result of the game becoming more complex, may not be familiar with other MMO's and would actually enjoy a bit more depth to the game, ie something else to do besides farm or try to find a pvp game to join. Again, the game is not made for casual players, imo.

Maybe if you were to come over to our side of the fence and see how things were you might have a differing opinion.

No, 'fraid not, I'm not hardcore enough for Venom.

[Azrael]

We've all read this post, it offers a lot of great ideas, some controversial ones, and some strong opinions.

Great (if lengthy) communication ;-)

We take everyone's opinions and feedback into consideration, and balance it with our own vision, bandwidth, and priorities.

I'll tell you this though, the sky is the limit for what this game can grow into!

Thank you for taking the time to read the post.

Edit: @Mobdropper: There is a difference between adding and responding to suggestions, and being contrarian for the sake of it. We are more than happy to hear and respond to your comments. Obviously you disagree with some if not all of the suggestions in the OP, but there is very little constructive comments in your recent posts to respond to.
We are making suggestions to the devs, not to the player base. If you feel threatened or upset by changes that other players propose or simply disagree, let the devs know and post your thoughts. However snide forum flaming doesn't help any case that you make, and doesn't promote a constructive dialogue.

As for the debate that seems to be forming between the game catering to casual or hardcore players, there is no reason the game can't have content for both. Ignoring either player base is bad for the game and bad for business. Personally i think any player should be able to make a guild for instance, but higher guild functions should require more game time/play to unlock.

[Xanthia]

Yea, I do say honest a lot....great job...that really helped your message in that post....

BTW even with no pots playing 5 levels with no REVIVE button, would still be VERY EASY

Also.....I don't know 1 game where the hard core players all have exceeded the dev's, sometimes 1 or 2 guilds can beat the devs to new content, but MOST of the guilds in the game do not even come close.....

The biggest line of BS that you wrote was stating that this game was not catered to casual players, many players both unguilded and guilded including every player in Venom has been DONE with content two weeks after Ancient Swamps came out....there has been nothing else for us to do. So, if you can honestly explain how this game does not cater to casual players, I would love to hear it, but don't just throw off wild statements with no support or validation.

[crookedjay]

X-

Well put and very well thought out. I can't tell you how disappointing it was for me to try to build a main tank (taunt / buff / debuff / self-heal) and realize how useless the pure tank currently is in this game. I leveled mine to 35 and kept his 200 strength anyway, but it is pretty ridiculous how unbalanced the game is. I'm building my third toon now and each one has been a bit of a letdown because of how similar they all are.

Without a tank willing to just dump money into magic pots (something I did for a while then got sick of) there is no real mob strategy. Everyone basically just zergs or clanks every boss. Pretty sad. There is no reason to specialize in anything. Frankly, I can't believe how weak the recast is on Taunt, either. Pretty sad that you're stuck shuffling through Beckon and everything else you have just to keep aggro. One thing I will say after playing in some pretty hardcore raid guilds over the years is that class-specific abilities are the entire point of playing a game like this and something that should never be reconfigurable. Let people keep their respecs and then do away with new ones completely. If you invest in a class, feel free to tweak your stats, but the whole hybrid thing is completely out of control in PL and it wrecks the game balance.

One caution, though. The whole reason I play PL right now is because it is (literally) pick up and play. After years of spending time max leveling / god battling in other MMOs, I can freely say that getting too deep here with stuff like crafting, etc. is probably going to lose more people than it brings to the game. Me included � I have kids now and nowhere near the time to invest. Also � as an iPhone developer, I know how important it is to consider the delivery mechanism here � making this a carbon copy of other MMOs in terms of time invested, etc. is just going to result in a lot fewer players, frankly.

Just my 2p.

[Mobdropper]

Edit: @Mobdropper: There is a difference between adding and responding to suggestions, and being contrarian for the sake of it. We are more than happy to hear and respond to your comments. Obviously you disagree with some if not all of the suggestions in the OP, but there is very little constructive comments in your recent posts to respond to.
We are making suggestions to the devs, not to the player base. If you feel threatened or upset by changes that other players propose or simply disagree, let the devs know and post your thoughts. However snide forum flaming doesn't help any case that you make, and doesn't promote a constructive dialogue.

Perhaps you did not read my posts? As each and every one of them includes constructive criticisim or my "feedback" and counter-opinions. None of my posts make claims without additional options. In fact, I believe my last post has at least half a dozen open questions awaiting your reply.

I understand you are making suggestions to the dev's, not the player base, as is the nature of this forum - and we all in fact are sharing our suggestions for the devs to read. Kind of a mute point really. Anyway, if you did not want the player base to respond, you should have acted accordingly and communicated to the dev's via a different avenue.

None of my posts have been flames, I have not called anyone names or made false claims. If you feel my posts were flames, that's on you =/.

[Mobdropper]

Maybe 5 levels with no revive button would be easy for your guild, but for many players it would present quite a challenge. I have seen many groups constantly wipe to witch or fabio. With 5 levels being so easy for your guild, my point is proven because that is the whole idea, but by no means would it be easy for everyone.

Yes, 1 or 2 guilds of 60-80+ players, ie the few extreme hard core that I previously mentioned.

So, if you can honestly explain how this game does not cater to casual players, I would love to hear it, but don't just throw off wild statements with no support or validation.

I did support my claim, here it is again though, in case you missed it the first time:

I do not believe this game caters toward casual players though, since pink drop rates are less than significant.

If you wish for further validation, I will give that to you as well. Ancient Swamps is a unqiue example, in that there were bugs available to allow for easy farming early after it's release. Then when the bugs were fixed, other opportunities were available for easy farming. Then witch was moved, and players moved to farming lebow. Which resulted in witch and lebow being lowered to mini-boss status, and eventually the implementation of a farming level. If none of the above had been present, everyone would still be clearing for the four bosses and your completion would have taken much longer.

Also, if you define a casual player as someone who only plays for an hour at a time, I have gone many times without having a pink drop for over an hour. Which would mean next to no pinks for the casual player. The more you play, the more pinks you see, ie not catered towards casual players.

Then again, I'm sure the casual players were the ones that were done with ancient swamps early and basically demanded a farm level.

Lastly, please read my posts thoroughly before accusing me of, "throwing off wild statements without support or validation" in the future. Thanks!

[Furrawn]

Advance-
It's a bit demeaning to call casual players "non-factors"... I'm willing to bet that most players spending money on PL are not willing to fill out a work schedule to play even though most of them play daily. If you take away the non-factors, there probably wouldn't be enough money to support further game development.

Xanthia-
A couple of things. I am sure I am what you condescendingly call a casual gamer. However, I was a level 35 within the first week that the swamp campaign came out. I also have made some friends who are serious RPG players on here. I refuse to believe that I count as less than a hardcore gamer.

Why in the world would you say this game CATERS to casual players because you finished the swamp campaign? It's beta. The devs are probably working around the clock sleepless. I would say the game content is what it is because it is in the process of being created. Get in early - be supportive and patient. Whatever the game will or won't be, I'd say casting judgement is way premature.

You said in real life nothing is free. I'd point out that in real life, money is very rarely an adequate measure of worth. Van Gogh sold one painting which he was alive. He was always poor. I guess he couldn't have a guild. That's the thing, yes, guilds deserve to be earned... Can't part of the earning a guild be because of a demonstration of passion, loyalty, and skill?

I don't want a guild for prestige. I respect your right to value that. I do not. I want a guild to have a community of like-minded individuals who love to laugh, think, and work together to play a stellar game.

Maybe my guild won't be known for prestige like Venom.
I hope it does become known as a place of acceptance, caring, camaraderie, and great game playing.

It is NOT less than your guild.
Merely different.

Mobstopper-
I LOVE the idea of a campaign to prove ourselves worthy as a guild!!

AND I died laughing at the revive Elvis comment! LMAO