Thread: Venom Guild Post (LONG POST)
Minus the "hate" part, I agree with Banned. Y'all are way overthinking a game that you play on your phone. Part of PL's charm is the casual gameplay. I already have a full-time job. I don't need (or want) PL to become a second job.Originally Posted by Banned
I like this idea. All of your other ideas ... I don't like. As previously stated, PL is a simple game. Your changes would undo a lot of that simplicity, which would make PL less enjoyable for me.
Characters: Epimetheus - Lvl 56 Warrior (main character), Atropos - Lvl 50 Enchantress, Aereus - Lvl 50 Archer
I was a warrior before warriors became cool....
Why would changing the game for the better make you play it more? Basically you are saying that if they changed the game so they it could be more in-depth that it would require you to play more. You don't have to play it more than casual..it's all preference I am just saying this game is going to lose a LOT of interest if they do not change things...and very quickly, this game is far to easy and needs a lot more content added. I love what the DEV's have done so far, but they need to make huge changes to the system to produce more playability and more content.
SlipperyJim - this does not mean that you have to play it more, it will just be more in-depth so that the players who do play this a lot more than we should will have something to do. Perfect example (In Venom we have about 5 players with 3 characters all 35 and all full pinks, also when our top 5 players get together in PvP we have yet to be beaten and we have never won by less than 10 deaths.) What else is there to do....socialize, nah it gets really boring, so we make posts like this to improve the overall game play for everyone, however again we are not saying that you have to play it any more.
Perhaps I did not explain myself clearly. It's not so much the time commitment -- although that's part of it -- it's the overall commitment to the game. If PL becomes more complex, it will require a greater commitment to play.
To take one of your suggestions as an example: Crafting. If the Devs implement a full-featured crafting system into the game, I'll have basically two choices. I'll either need to start crafting myself (adding more commitment to the game), or I'll need to crank up my farming and pay others to craft for me (adding more commitment to the game). Either way, my commitment to the game will probably have to increase. I don't want that. I don't want to worry about how to make my items, and I don't want to pay other people to make my items. I just want to kill a boss and get the item.
I strongly disagree with your predictions of doom and gloom for PL. Your thesis seems to be that the Devs need to add more of everything. My counterpoint to your thesis is that PL started as a fairly simple game, and it's become quite popular as such. To use an analogy, your "laundry list" of suggestions seems a bit like someone saying that Checkers is doomed because of its simplicity. "Unless each checker gets an upgrade path, customization, and the ability to craft new checkers ... everyone will quit playing!" Well, no. Checkers is a simple game, and that simplicity is part of its popularity. The rules are really simple. The strategies can get a little tricky, but nearly anyone can sit down with a set of checkers & a board to play a game. In a similar way, I believe that part of PL's popularity is its simplicity. People who normally shun MMOs (like me) can pick up their iDevices, download the PL app, and start slaying mobs in very little time. It's quick, easy, and fun.
While I respect the (obvious) level of work that Venom put into this list of suggestions, I don't want most of them to be implemented. I think that we really want different games. You want PL to be more complex. I want it to stay at (or near) the current level of simplicity. It will be interesting to see which way the Devs go....
As an aside, y'all have looked at the planned additions to the game:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...lease-Schedule
When I look at that schedule, it looks pretty chock-full to me. My tolerance for complexity will already be a bit stretched.So let's see how the planned additions work before we start requesting more stuff.
Characters: Epimetheus - Lvl 56 Warrior (main character), Atropos - Lvl 50 Enchantress, Aereus - Lvl 50 Archer
I was a warrior before warriors became cool....
Thats not an MMO. That's a Co-op hack and slash game.
I dont agree with everything in this "review", but I think there are some good points made. There was alot of complexity in what was posted and could be confusing for some. Why do you think there is a suggestion and feedback forum?
I'd love to see you boot up WoW on your iphone.
How many other games will you really be playing after this? Thats a terrible reason. I don't how anyone can take you seriously anyways... I mean you stole your parents credit card and spent 1 thousand dollars on gold.
Last edited by Ogediah; 06-01-2010 at 02:34 PM.
RosieODonell, Lvl 50 WarMage / Ogediah, Lvl 35 Warrior / DrPhill, Lvl 45 Archer
(+ three others I play around with when bored)
For people who don't want the end of hybrid classes by making class specific gear think about this.
The reason that we choose to make hybrid classes is the horrible variety of classes to choose from. If more classes were made, than that would give us more things to choose from. Also, the hero classes will add much more depth to class choice. With more choices, people wouldn't have the need for hybrids.
Another thing that I think is very necessary is the crafting that was in this post. With the new classes to try, crafting, and guilds, this game will have a much more playable aspect.
The reason I disagree with almost all of is because of the
memory it can take up. 3 characters is good enough you guys can't excpect any of this to happen suggestions are good but the devs work there butts off. Again remember it's not even done yet. There still making it! I think suggegtions would be better for near end summer when it's complete. For Now we must be patience and let the devs take care of the changes right now( THERE STILL MAKEING IT,ITS NOT EVEN A FULL GAME YET!!)
I agree, all we can really do now is give general feedback on what is implemented. Like PvP, we can give ideas on how to balance it. I am sure the devs already have ideas for their major releases. This list of ideas makes this game a PC MMO, not a phone one.The reason I disagree with almost all of is because of the
memory it can take up. 3 characters is good enough you guys can't excpect any of this to happen suggestions are good but the devs work there butts off. Again remember it's not even done yet. There still making it! I think suggegtions would be better for near end summer when it's complete. For Now we must be patience and let the devs take care of the changes right now
The two words that show off ones truly horrific values - Epic and Fail.
Exactly. If I wanted any of this stuff, I would just quit PL and play EQ (which I dislike) or WoW.
I agree.
Flaimdude: Lvl31 Mage • Flaimer: Lvl15 Arch • Flaimior: Lvl14 Bear
"If you're not careful asommers will catch up to you lol" ~Royce
Really awesome ideas here, would love a 10 man raid that would require some thinking. Something that would have to be fixed is drops though. That to me is the reason that swamps is still so easy because otherwise we would be spending 30 min for orange and green drops. If they gauranteed a pink or purple drop every boss kill then making them really hard would make more sense as it is though you have to kill them multiple times before you get a look at anything worth having. just my 2 cents, awesome post bring on the pure healing class!!!!
Feedback is great, but these look less like feedback and more like expectations or demands.
If you honestly want a full MMO experience, go back to gaming on a desktop and find your fix with WoW, EQ etc.
Ok, notice i said this was being written mainly by myself and Azrael and with assistance of the Venom members. That would be the community I speak of. Don't read between the lines. BTW no harm taken just replying how I feel and no offense to anything you wrote and I hope none is taken in this message.
Hybrids - if you make players just stay with-in the confines of their class, if they had a lot of options in their class then there would be a lot of diversity within that class, meaning that there would be MULTIPLE builds for 1 class. Honestly, no one would be making you play it one way or another, however there should be SIGNIFICANT HUGE LARGE stat deductions to players using armor/weapons from a different class. This is what makes PvP possible to be balanced.
Stat Distribution - you would place your stats in Achievement Points which would ultimately be the same thing, however you would get a set number of Health, Mana, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence per level but then get to place points in your skill tree to design your character how you wanted it. The reason that you should have a set stat distribution is so that the game can be balanced and this also will place a lot more emphasis on how skilled the player is and not as much about what is the build of the month.
Invites - the only reason I want this is so that I can make a passworded game and only have players I want in the game, like I don't want to make a game have Azrael join the game then ALL of his friends want to join, when I only want to group with Azrael and have to kick everyone else and listen to why they should be allowed in. How about a compromise.....There are 2 types of passworded games. Secure and Unsecured passworded games. In secure Passworded games you would have to provide the password to enter the game no matter if you were friends with someone in the game. Unsecured would be how the games are not, anyone who is on friends list can join. I think that is very fair and makes sense.
PvE Farming - I AGREE 100% make players play all the zones, but GUARANTEE a pink at the end of it!!!!!!!
Guilds - I really like you and I don't want any of this to change it, however when you said this is a way for no-lifers to say they are better than other players really kinda pissed me off, just because a guild can afford this type of guild hall does not mean that they have no life or are claiming to be better than they are. I think that statement was extremely uncalled for. Ok, done with that
If the players who play the most and accumulate the most money do not have a way to prove that they do that, then they will get bored and not way to do that..so why not make guild halls so expensive. The casual players are still able to have a guild hall, they will just have to work to get it, why should we make things easy for the casual players in return make the hardcore players bored, why not make hard for both but make all guild hall levels beneficial and capable of same thing just make the higher guild hall levels more prestigious or have more bells and whistles, but all 3 would still have the same core items and purposes.
Player Dictated Stats- I already went over.
Crafting - I agree!
10 man raids - thank God someone else is sick of 10 year olds......
Achievement points would not be something that ppl would like brag about, this is a way to place points into Skill Tree's I think you read this incorrectly.
Thanks would love to hear back Diz
Ok, some quick retorts Xan -Ok, notice i said this was being written mainly by myself and Azrael and with assistance of the Venom members. That would be the community I speak of. Don't read between the lines. BTW no harm taken just replying how I feel and no offense to anything you wrote and I hope none is taken in this message.
Hybrids - if you make players just stay with-in the confines of their class, if they had a lot of options in their class then there would be a lot of diversity within that class, meaning that there would be MULTIPLE builds for 1 class. Honestly, no one would be making you play it one way or another, however there should be SIGNIFICANT HUGE LARGE stat deductions to players using armor/weapons from a different class. This is what makes PvP possible to be balanced.
Stat Distribution - you would place your stats in Achievement Points which would ultimately be the same thing, however you would get a set number of Health, Mana, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence per level but then get to place points in your skill tree to design your character how you wanted it. The reason that you should have a set stat distribution is so that the game can be balanced and this also will place a lot more emphasis on how skilled the player is and not as much about what is the build of the month.
Invites - the only reason I want this is so that I can make a passworded game and only have players I want in the game, like I don't want to make a game have Azrael join the game then ALL of his friends want to join, when I only want to group with Azrael and have to kick everyone else and listen to why they should be allowed in. How about a compromise.....There are 2 types of passworded games. Secure and Unsecured passworded games. In secure Passworded games you would have to provide the password to enter the game no matter if you were friends with someone in the game. Unsecured would be how the games are not, anyone who is on friends list can join. I think that is very fair and makes sense.
PvE Farming - I AGREE 100% make players play all the zones, but GUARANTEE a pink at the end of it!!!!!!!
Guilds - I really like you and I don't want any of this to change it, however when you said this is a way for no-lifers to say they are better than other players really kinda pissed me off, just because a guild can afford this type of guild hall does not mean that they have no life or are claiming to be better than they are. I think that statement was extremely uncalled for. Ok, done with that
If the players who play the most and accumulate the most money do not have a way to prove that they do that, then they will get bored and not way to do that..so why not make guild halls so expensive. The casual players are still able to have a guild hall, they will just have to work to get it, why should we make things easy for the casual players in return make the hardcore players bored, why not make hard for both but make all guild hall levels beneficial and capable of same thing just make the higher guild hall levels more prestigious or have more bells and whistles, but all 3 would still have the same core items and purposes.
Player Dictated Stats- I already went over.
Crafting - I agree!
10 man raids - thank God someone else is sick of 10 year olds......
Achievement points would not be something that ppl would like brag about, this is a way to place points into Skill Tree's I think you read this incorrectly.
Thanks would love to hear back Diz
Regarding your response to my response to your thesis part... if you meant "some Venom peeps" as the "the loyal, engaged, and trustworthy community members and beta testers of the game", then it could perhaps use some clarification.
Hybrids comment - Sure, if individual classes had more skills and different ways of speccing, then yes - hybrids would lose some allure in a meta sense. Hybrids wouldn't be as intriguing. Possibly in a practical sense, hybrids would go down in value if each class was made to be more 'tooly' so to speak. But on one hand, this is a good idea, and on the other hand you're advocating for more classes. These are two different ways and present two completely different sets of variables to balance in all aspects of gameplay.
Stat distribution comment - Achievements Points, again my response is same as above - now you're dealing with a whole different ballgame than the other options. None of them are really "easy" fixes.
Invites - I understand exactly what you're saying, I think I'm speaking too much in a meta sense to be really clear in what I'm saying, but - honestly, changing the accessibility of games in the manners you speak of would increase exclusivity and also lower the 'annoyance' of random people joining. I don't really care but I feel this wasn't understood in a bird's eye perspective. I don't care either way, random joiners can either get booted in the current setup and I wouldn't care or there can be a change to the way people can join games. Either way is gravy, but the ladder option does turn the elitism up a notch.
PvE farming - guaranteed pinks is fine, I guess. It is a casual game it's not like it's WoW [or whatever] where you need to farm X boss for 3 months to even see Y item [and then have Z chance of winning your roll for it (thank god I never played any MMO with a DKP guild)]. As long as it doesn't ramp up to the point where there are spreadsheet XL files that show who gets what and when, then I'm fine with PvE going the whole nine yards for the "gear" oriented players. Pink out all you want, people...
Guilds - No-lifers? Well, look at it realistically. Look at it the way you do when you're actually playing the game, man. IF guilds were in the game, as of 1.2, there wouldn't be a whole lot for them to do to prove they are better or more competitive or made up of higher quality players EXCEPT by defeating other guilds/clans/groups in PvP. That's it. There is no other way to compare the relative strength and skills of groups in any way except for PvP. And the game is so young and the strats are so unrefined, and THEN you throw in the wild card of PvP in its infant stage... and it's obvious, at least to me, that "guilds" would be an almost hollow venture in all aspects. They would simply facilitate quicker communication, help keep the guild structurally organized, and be e-peen contests. The e-peen contests would only consist of primitive PvP fights. Guilds could also do in-house pink farming, but that has zero direct impact on the meta-guild level. The only way guilds would be able to truly interact currently is in gimp PvP. Now, if housing was in, it would need to have an actual dynamic that fluctuates to reflect the current standing of a guild or their potential will-to-power. There is no meter of will-to-power in the game nor is there a playing field in which it would be used. If "gear" was more powerful, more rare, and more difficult to obtain from PvE, then possibly will-to-power could be reflected in PvP. But considering that almost everybody in PvP is wearing the same end-game gear, there is not a practical way of telling "who is more powerful". If the same group was being judged and simply had a tag of [Venom] above their head, it would still be impractical in trying to decide "who is more powerful" regardless of the tag or not. Guild housing / halls would simply be a gold / time sink, in the current game state. Period. There would be nothing except a hollow notifier to anyone passing by that a group of players had seriously WTFPOWERGAMED OUT and dropped a boatload of gold to wave the ol' e-peen. I'm not saying this is bad. I'm not saying it is good. What I am saying is that, without PURPOSE, then guild housing would have no reason to exist in the current game format. A new dynamic, that would draw the will-to-power out of groups and motivate them to obtain such a high-end goal as a previously-arbitrary "Guild Hall Level 3" would be epic. But it would take some serious foresight and impeccable implementation to place in the game without turning everything upside-down and stratifying a lot of the player base. It's not a big deal if it was put in now, later, or never, but there would need to be a purpose [like the one you briefly defined] and it would need to be a sustainable motivator for being such a monumental sink.
Crafting is either hit or miss because it completely impacts every player, either directly or indirectly, in an economic sense. Unattended resource gathering can ruin a game by itself. Literally.
10 man raids - Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of amazingly skillful kids who play games... I'm just saying, the vast majority of players are immature greenhorns who have no idea what is going on around them. Situational awareness in this game, in a holistic community perspective, is severely lacking. A few scattered people understand the game but for the most part, there are a LOT of random... noobs who are simply winging it blindly. But that's cool, it's sort of expected, it's a casual [semi]-free mobile game.
I wasn't reading Achivement Point idea incorrectly, I was just trying to steer around that because of reasons I explained earlier in this particular post. It's just another option of a messy, sloppy road that would need to be checked out hardcore before considering as a real viable route to the PROMISED LAND [aka balanced PvP].
Holla at your novel-writing boy!
DEV's can we get some ideas of what yall are thinking about this.....did we hit the mark on anything....did we go way off chart? I know it is completely up to you to decide if you want to correspond back, however there are a lot of ideas thrown around here and would LOVE to hear from you all.
Lol, Diz so after all of that. You were basically on the fence about everything, you had 1 foot on 1 side and 1 food on the other. No real stance just parameters for if this happens. Yes, guild housing right now would be a e-peen contest, but then again what are you doing playing a MMO? E-peen? Yea, all in all everything is just that. So, at least give us hardcore group something to do....I mean whenever one warrior is able to solo the entire final zone for all the bosses with the entire zone of croc's following, it's time for some new content
Then again these are just suggestions, however I would love for some DEV action here......seeing as how they reply to all the other threads in this forums usually...
Xan, I am just a simple player of Pocket Legends. I can only offer input based upon what I would like to see in the game, and what I feel the community at large would like to see in the game. Pocket Legends, being so young and new... and me, having played just a month or two by my lonesome... I fear I have no claim to either side of the fence. The stakes are too low and the options too many for me to create a picket sign and advocate this or that. About the only thing I have felt strong enough to truly voice my opinion on are the problems that popped up from Frogmar farming.
I've been helping to create an actual MMO for over a year and a half, and the one thing that becomes more and more obvious to me is this - every decision you make regarding the game, big or small, can have unforseen effects, short-term or long-term, for better or worse. It is absolutely critical that each option be weighed and considered, especially in the developmental stages or right after the launch of something big [like PvP in 1.2].
I think there are a lot of possible options that could be made for the game, some good, some bad, but most are mixed. So in my honest opinion, yes, I feel that I would rather help to define parameters rather than pick a side and made a stand.
Sure, a lot of MMOs is e-peenery. Comes with the territory. I find nothing about the game [yet] worth sticking mine out for, though. But I hear the train coming... and when it comes, we're either going to be on it or we aren't. If I had to make a prediction, I'd say I'll be on the train. I gotta see where this is going... Woo wooooooo
Yet again I will say it's not done yet. It's not even a full game yet. So don't overthink yourself that randomly the developers will make alot of changes like some of these. The people always have the power but for now we don't. The most we can do is help the devs and tell the problems with the game (bugs) not problems with stats skills or items weapons etc, or just to benefite your character. The devs will obviously make tons of changes. But first there focus is on finishing the game. I guarentee you guys will have almost, no suggegtions when it's complete. Some of these ideas people don't like so people will quite if it was like that(suggegtions that benefit a small group of people not good) And think of the time it takes to put stuff in the game and time for apple to approve most of it. And how many devs are there 5? And how long has it been since it was released 2 months -_- some games take a year or more to make and it's already awesome. Wow and gw don't need approval by anyone so be pacient and let the game be finished. And then if there's stuff that's not added that may be a great idea, then is the best time to make big suggegtions like this.
Ok, This is a suggestion forum, I understand that we are suggesting something very large, however this is where this type of input is supposed to go. So, please don't lecture me on being patient and waiting on things, I have probably been playing MMO's longer then you have been alive.
Hear Hear, *claps hands for about 10 seconds*
Kirei-Fnord - lvl 55 - The Origanal Fnord Paladin
Like Banned, if most of these changes were implemented, I would stop playing PL. As for hybrids, they add interest to the game. I don't want a narrow character. I want some creative freedom to make a character MY character.
Millions for a guild is ridiculous. There are all kinds of players out there. Why should they have to pay millions to have a guild so they can have companionship and gaming buddies? Guilds should be accessible rather than ONLY available to a couple of elite groups who may well espouse values that others don't have.
I LIKE that my friends can join a passworded game- that's why they are my FRIENDS. I wouldn't want that to change. Maybe a setting could be implemented in options so we can choose to allow friends to freely join our passworded games or not.
Just my humble opinion.
I know for a fact you'll disapprove of my guild... But as long as the guild members are happy and playing well - isn't that ok? And isn't the point of having different guilds to allow like-minded individuals to create a community within the game?
All the Venom Guild suggested changes sound a bit like one guild bossing everyone else around by trying to say how EVERYONE should play rather than just how Venom guild members should play.
If I misunderstood, I'm truly sorry.
Generally speaking, a howling wilderness does not howl: it is the imagination of the traveler that does the howling. ~ Thoreau
FURRAWN 45 Paladin ButterflyPoet 45 pure dex ScarlettOHara 45 Intbear Jeannedarc 22 Mage Trickortreat lvl 22 100% pure organic chicken Christmastree 13 Mage
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