Itemization Updates & The New Expansion

[Tapash Bose]

Again the same thing. Show us screenshot or ign of a warr with 10k hp, 3.5k armor and 800 damage please.
This is misleading statement bhai.

I already posted the stats of my warrior with Icescale set and Galen Maul and Snaggletooth..He is hitting 7700hp and 2518 armor with lvl 41 set..so your stat of having only 2.3k armor with glintstone set with Nekro is not the correct information... and is just aimed to obfuscate things ...there is something seriously wrong if u are 2.3k armor and 7.6 hp with Glintstone Set,Arcane Sword and Nekro...just asking..did u put some of the points in dex or Int while levelling up ?

[Tapash Bose]

Bro, using heal packs only for PvP is your concept (because rogues were too op to use it in pve).

Isn't EVERY NANO SECONDS COUNTED IN PVP?
Ask for chang healing and heal pack system then.
All other class use healing skills in pve.
Ask/suggest dev team to change heal skill of rogue.

Not using heal packs in elites is a universal concept.
It robs u of an attack slot.
Now I am starting to wonder who plays the game less ?

Just for your knowledge,if u dont already know...rogues pot most..so what difference will a healing pack make?
If u want to start a discussion about reducing pot cost..i dont think this is the correct thread

And Try as a rogue in PVP..u will understand why healing packs are needed
I must agree with Earlingstad the decisions taken on these type of non educated opinions destroys the game in the long run :S

[arcanesuperio]

Not using heal packs in elites is a universal concept.
It robs u of an attack slot.
Now I am starting to wonder who plays the game less ?

Just for your knowledge,if u dont already know...rogues pot most..so what difference will a healing pack make?
If u want to start a discussion about reducing pot cost..i dont think this is the correct thread

And Try as a rogue in PVP..u will understand why healing packs are needed
I must agree with Earlingstad the decisions taken on these type of non educated opinions destroys the game in the long run :S

If this is not the correct thread don't reply back.
Rogue pots most due to quick cool down of skills.
Increase the CD of skills and u won't be potting.
Next point is, does mage and warr have extra skill slot that heal skills don't rob of their attack slot???

[Tapash Bose]

If this is not the correct thread don't reply back.
Rogue pots most due to quick cool down of skills.
Increase the CD of skills and u won't be potting.
Next point is, does mage and warr have extra skill slot that heal skills don't rob of their attack slot???

Op mages never uses heal skill in elite...any top mage can correct me if I m wrong..
Warriors heal skills not only for himself but for the whole party...and if a warr is not tanking he can go forward with pots
Increasing of CD skills will take more time to attack..ultimately resulting in more deaths ..even a lvl 7 twink of any class will also confirm to that..
And pots or heal pack does not provide a shield..when the kill is one shot...no time to spam pots...or use heal packs even..looool
So goes the saying ..A little knowledge is a dangerous thing not only for himself...but for the whole community

[arcanesuperio]

I already posted the stats of my warrior with Icescale set and Galen Maul and Snaggletooth..He is hitting 7700hp and 2518 armor with lvl 41 set..so your stat of having only 2.3k armor with glintstone set with Nekro is not the correct information... and is just aimed to obfuscate things ...there is something seriously wrong if u are 2.3k armor and 7.6 hp with Glintstone Set,Arcane Sword and Nekro...just asking..did u put some of the points in dex or Int while levelling up ?

Do some maths. I hope u know addition.
Glintstone helm - 920 armor
Glintstone plate - 1374 armor
Total - 920 + 1374 = 2294.
Are u joking bro or doesn't want to give up at any cost?

[arcanesuperio]

Op mages never uses heal skill in elite...any top mage can correct me if I m wrong..
Warriors heal skills not only for himself but for the whole party...and if a warr is not tanking he can go forward with pots
Increasing of CD skills will take more time to attack..ultimately resulting in more deaths ..even a lvl 7 twink of any class will also confirm to that..
And pots or heal pack does not provide a shield..when the kill is one shot...no time to spam pots...or use heal packs even..looool
So goes the saying ..A little knowledge is a dangerous thing not only for himself...but for the whole community

Razor shield isn't working?

[Tapash Bose]

Do some maths. I hope u know addition.
Glintstone helm - 920 armor
Glintstone plate - 1374 armor
Total - 920 + 1374 = 2294.
Are u joking bro or doesn't want to give up at any cost?

Ooh I didnt knew u play without rings,belt and amulet...XD..all of them adds up..and u dont even need to know 4th Standard math for that ....added figure shows up in your stats..I dont need to give up bcos I am speaking the truth..and I am not joking..

Forget Glintstone..do u want to see the screenshot that I am getting 7.7k hp and 2518 armor just by using Icescale set and Galen Maul..along with normal mythic belt , arcane ring and planar pendant? So u mean to say that Glintstone set actually reduces ur hp and armor ?

[Tapash Bose]

Razor shield isn't working?

Razor shield provides invincibility like Horn Of Renew ????? Really bro u never fail to amaze me with your knowledge(or lack of it) of the game

[BloodVamp]

Cool, its Nice Gems

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[Americabud]

Personally i like all the new updates, expansion and itemization. i could not have picked a better time to start back playing this game! The future looks bright

[Theenix]

Hello

I do not talk/care about pvp, only PVE. Just to provide real stats and summarize what changed in the game.
By comparaison with other rogue I used to be one of the best armor (little less than 2.1k with maridos) but way behind for dmg and crit.
I play the 3 classes at level 46 full stat on most relevant for class, I have arcane ring with 1 para gem +2 chaos and a planar pendant with 2 chaos.
My warrior gear have little less gem than the 2 other. Without pet,without potion, for a fair comparaison.

Rogue : using bow, legendary gear (all brutality to max HP but waistguard warfare belt for armor) Health 4808, dmg 695, mana 1315 armor 1663
mage : using gun, legendary gear (all brutality to max HP) Health 4671, dmg 725, mana 6710, armor 1434
Warrior : using sword lvl 41 with 2 grand blood, legendary gear (all assault to max HP but waistguard warfare belt for armor) Health 7511, dmg 520, mana 1290, armor 2425
Warrior : using defender, legendary gear (all assault to max HP but waistguard warfare belt for armor) Health 7465, dmg 488, mana 1290, armor 2611

So current stat are pretty similar with just (+140 HP, -30 dmg and +130 armor) versus mage
but -2657 HP, +210 dmg, - 950 armor, versus full tank
and -2703 HP, +175 dmg, -762 armor, versus dmg tank (with lvl 41 sword)

But no shield or stun/freeze like mage or horn/VB like warrior.... and there is a thread showing non linearity of armor effect but I do not know if it is real figures

With that stat I do not understand what STS means by tanking : in elite tidirin or glinstone cave I was able to survive the one shot from MOBS, but even giant in normal glinstone was a pain. What was called survability in the previous thread means
that you were not dead at first shot so can pot pot pot pot before coming back in the battle. Now it will be ank or restart. This is the real pve change, now rogue died at first shot with end game elite mobs (with marido pet).
By comparaison I am a beginer Warrior but was able to tank elite king without real difficulties with legendary pet.

Definitly do not understand how can rogue can "tank" before the nerf by their own stats but may be the stun on arcane/(so common now) dagger can explain it!
For PVE, changing the balance by nerfing was a real bad idea in my opinion, for balance in the PVE game, balancing the mobs/bosses difficulty depending on the team composition would have been far far better:
- allow warrior to have chance to solo kill event boss (like drakula or the disco boss) when random left you alone at event end...
- make 4 rogues elite wild more chalenging.
etc

[Darkquantum]

I have a quick rogue nerf review after a few days playing, but firstly I just want to say to STS that the way you made this armour reduction decision was not very well done. I think that there should have been some warning about this prior to client release, at least then you could say that you gave us time to make adjustments. A lot of players worked hard to get those extra stats and spent a lot of gold doing it, you don't seem to appreciate that at all. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to spend a bit extra pushing our armour back up a bit, but others are not and that isn't really fair on them ;-/

Ok, with that said, I have tested the new armour reduction in both PvE and PvP and have bit of feedback for you.

Firstly PvP, I have tested both CTF and TDM and find it to still be playable even with the massive armour hit, the problem is not the group clashes where you have mage and war heals to support you. The problem is the one on one encounters, or in duels, in both of these sitations a well geared mage or well geared war wins over a well geared rogue. The advantages they both have in armour and damage reduction + stuns means that rogues have little chance right now. I have also tested vs against a very good lvl46 war without the arc sword and I can win some of those match ups. With the arc sword it's pretty much a guarenteed win for them. Versus a mage without a planar pendant, (both of us had arc wep, arc ring and nekro) I won 50% of the matchups. Versus a mage with equal gear I lost every match apart from one where i got a lucky crit in. To me, and this isn't crying about it btw, that aspect is no longer balanced and prior to the update it was, although mages probably needed some extra armour too.

I can also see what you are trying to achieve with this update, however as rogues have developed into little war machines, both war and mage classes have changed their playstyle to keep up. Most wars these days are less tanky and more roguey, to use your language, i.e. they are damage dealers rather than damage takers. Many mages also prefer to run with just dmg skill as that is the direction that the game has gone. I get that you want to address that and bring back more versatility to each class, but to me it seems like they way you did it was pretty unfair to the rogue class.

In PvE the lower armour is pretty much manageable, but, in the tougest maps like elite tindirin and elite glintstone caverns, because of the OP mob attacks, rogues are getting one shotted a lot more and while mages have a nice big shield to protect them, rogues pretty much need to have a nekro or a big bank roll for ankhs. ;-/ Again this does not strike me as massively balanced, and while I see the need for you to reduce armour, I think you have gone a bit overboard with this nerf.

If you want to change the way the game is being played in general, just changing one class is not a very fair way of doing that imo.

Anyways I hope you are still thinking about this and are planning to add some (not all) of the armour you took back, as I do think this will make it more balanced for rogues.

Thanks for listening.

Solanu

Changed our style to keep up did we? Changed our style and still lost more like it. See you make us all seem fine with you guys being op as hell. No we hate it lol tell your own opinion not what u think we felt.

You know what why dont you just change your style? Haha

[Solanu]

Changed our style to keep up did we? Changed our style and still lost more like it. See you make us all seem fine with you guys being op as hell. No we hate it lol tell your own opinion not what u think we felt.

You know what why dont you just change your style? Haha

Not really getting the hostility, but each to there own. My point was that as a general trend wars are much more focused on dmg dealing rather than damage taking, long sword vs sword and shield. This is about long term game dynamic, and i'm giving my feedback on the changes they have made.

The reasoning they gave for the armour nerf was that they want to make rogues less tanky, the same should apply to tanks and being 'roguey' no?

Forgetting other classes for the time being as it seems to upset some people. The problem I have with that is that a dagger rogue and a bow rogue should be played differently, one having more armour one less. Dagger rogues need to be in the middle of mobs, and at the moment that is pretty certain death in elite tind and glint. Bow rogues are obviously different any require less survivability as they kite round mobs not sit in the middle of them.

And thanks for you suggestion to change my play style, thats very useful, wish i had thought of that. :-P

[Horgs]

Greetings Legends! Your friendly neighborhood Remiem here with some more updates on itemization and balance in the coming expansion. In a continued effort to balance the game and create the most fun game experiences for our players, we've made some changes that will allow the game to continue to expand and grow in a healthy and predictable way.

Gem Conversion

As a part of the new expansion, we will be continuing the gradual phasing out of gems in order to make ample room for growth of the jewel system. Gems will no longer be socketable in gear above item-level 46 as it is released. We understand many of you still have some unsocketed gems in your inventory. No worries! Starting with the new expansion, a new crafting station option will become available to all players: Gem Conversion. You'll be able to break down any of your remaining gems into jewels that you can use on your new end-game gear. The conversions will be as follows:

Gem to Convert:	Converts To:
Blood Gem	(1) Cracked Fury Jewel
Bound Blood Gem	(1) Cracked Fury Jewel
Reinforced Blood Gem	(1) Standard Fury Jewel (1) Standard Diamond Jewel
Fire Gem	(1) Cracked Finesse Jewel
Bound Fire Gem	(1) Cracked Finesse Jewel
Reinforced Fire Gem	(1) Standard Finesse Jewel (1) Standard Diamond Jewel
Glacial Gem	(1) Cracked Mind Jewel
Bound Glacial Gem	(1) Cracked Mind Jewel
Reinforced Glacial Gem	(1) Standard Mind Jewel (1) Standard Diamond Jewel
Tarlok's Rage Gem	(1) Standard Fury Jewel (1) Weak Finesse Jewel
Tarlok's Wind Gem	(1) Standard Finesse Jewels (1) Weak Mind Jewels
Tarlok's Wisdom Gem	(1) Standard Mind Jewel (1) Weak Fury Jewel
Elondrian Life Gem	(1) Fortified Nature Jewel
Necropolis Gem	(1) Fortified Water Jewel
Enchanted Eye of Syrillax	(1) Noble Fury Jewel (1) Noble Mind Jewel (1) Noble Finesse Jewel (1) Noble Lightning Jewel (1) Noble Diamond Jewel (1) Noble Chaos Jewel (1) Noble Nature Jewel (1) Noble Water Jewel
Paracelsus Gem	(1) Noble Fury Jewel (1) Noble Mind Jewel (1) Noble Finesse Jewel (1) Noble Lightning Jewel (1) Noble Diamond Jewel (1) Noble Chaos Jewel (1) Noble Nature Jewel (1) Noble Water Jewe

Blood Gem:
For twinks and players still making their way to end-game, all gems will still be socketable in gear at i-level 46 and below.


Jewels

In the today's update we've made it even easier to collect the jewels you're interested in for your character's build, and have a new addition to jewel offerings coming with the expansion:

+ Client update (3/16): Jewel drop rate has been doubled across the board.

+ With expansion: A new item, Jewel Sacks, will become available with the launch of the new expansion. Jewel sacks will drop 3 jewels each with a chance to drop weak, damaged and standard jewels (no cracked!)


New Crates Coming

At the start of Ren'gol we released Locked Ren'gol Crates, with the announcement that we were moving toward seasonal locked crates going forward. Well, it's that time! When the new expansion drops Locked Ren'gol Crates will no longer be available as drops, and they will be replaced with Cryostar Crates, the official locked crate of the new expansion. Here's some more about how seasonal crates will work:

+ New crate released with each expansion. These crates will replace the old ones as world drops.

+ New crates will contain some similar items, and some specific to the expansion in which it was released, including pets and gear.

+ Items exclusive to the previous season's crates will be available for crate tokens in the previous town hub. (Ex: Ren'gol crate exclusives will be available for tokens in Garetta)

Keep an eye out for more information on the items to be contained in Cryostar crates, and the last-chance items in Ren'gol Crates in future announcements.

Class Balance

With each update and expansion, we work to take your feedback into consideration as we make tweaks to balance to fine tune the class dynamic in Arcane Legends. A few changes happen this update that you'll want to take into consideration when creating your new Skill Mastery Builds.

+ Passive crit percentage reduced: The % crit boost for each point put into the passive Critical skill has been reduced to 0.65% per point, down from 1% per point.

+ Rogue Armor Reduced: Over time, rogues have become much tankier than originally intended. In this update, Rogue armor attributes have been reduced across the board to bring them in line with the class balance design in-game. Rogues will no longer be tankier than Warriors, but will still have more armor that Sorcerers. For Rogue players who value those armor attributes, you'll want to consider putting your Skill Mastery points into Razor Shield which will give you up to 10% damage reduction.

Item Changes

+ Weapon Type Balance: Currently, there is a clear weapon preference for each class, due to certain advantages like damage dealt and attack speed. As new gear comes out, starting with the new expansion, we'll be better balancing each weapon type to be similar in power to its class alternative. Each weapon type will still have unique attributes, but with better balance to stats across the board.

+ Arcane Ring: In the new expansion, the Arcane ring Rendtail's Dragonstone will start to offer diminishing returns past level 46. As an item that has been one of the most powerful in the game for 2 full expansions, this slow decrease in power will still allow it to be viable at later levels, while eventually making way for new gear. With each level above level 46, the ring's Primary Stat bonus will decrease by 2.

Example: Level 46: +30 Primary, Level 47: +28 Primary, Level 48: +26 Primary, etc.

Remiem, what will happen to lvl 46 mythic set? I'm still working to get them, I'm now crafting the helm. And believe me, the gold cost is pretty expensive. So, is the lvl 46 mythic set still worth wearing? Or there will be new gear better than lvl 46 mythic set? Please, make the lvl 46 mythic gear upgradeable, or at least make it worth wearing for the new expansion. Please respond, I need answer. Thanks, Remiem!

[arcanesuperio]

Ooh I didnt knew u play without rings,belt and amulet...XD..all of them adds up..and u dont even need to know 4th Standard math for that ....added figure shows up in your stats..I dont need to give up bcos I am speaking the truth..and I am not joking..

Forget Glintstone..do u want to see the screenshot that I am getting 7.7k hp and 2518 armor just by using Icescale set and Galen Maul..along with normal mythic belt , arcane ring and planar pendant? So u mean to say that Glintstone set actually reduces ur hp and armor ?

If we use arcane ring instead glintsone ring then what's benefit of making the glintstone set?
With arcane ring armor would be 2294+170=2464
You don't want to use warfare gears and diamond jewels in your rogue.
You want to make rogue attacking tanking machine.
Use durability passive skill in rogue, use some warfare gears and use some diamond n nature jewels.
Move out of your comfort zone. Play some fair dodge game.

[Bameely]

so now tanks are OP and turn damage dealers.

why did warriors complained rogue being op n doing too much dmg when I thought - Warriors tank, Rogues deal dmg, mage do mob control+dmg? now with rogue's armor and crit nerfed, what damage are we talking about when we lie on the ground flat so often?

Segregate the nerf for PVP & PVE. Adjust the reduction if you cannot totally not nerf it.

#nerfsts

[extrapayah]

Good feedback in this thread guys, thank you for keeping it as cordial as possible.

Rogue Armor
Just to chime in, we are certainly listening and we do hear what is being said, however it is too soon to make any snap judgments or reactions without this having the proper amount of time to monitor. The largest complexity of a change such as this is that a lot of points made on both sides of the fence can be incredibly subjective, as well as situationally dependent, in addition to the data acquired from multiple sources and their conflicts of opinion or legitimacy. We ask for your patience and encourage everyone to play with the tools available to them, as it is a significant change with many different perspectives, implications, and underlying data to support the decision.

We are not making any arbitrary or random modifications, we are using the data we have available to us to make educated changes to support what we feel is in the best interest for the game moving forward. Please understand that everyone's experience, min/max approach, play style, preferences, and expectations on all of these things is going to be very different. Please also keep this in mind and remain respectful of others opinions on the matter.

Regular Blood, Glacial, Fire Gems Granting Cracked Jewels
This has already been touched upon, but the reality of this is the overwhelming supply of the base level gems involved. Concerns about the secondary market price for Jewels tanking was one of our top concerns when making this addition to the game and shutting off Gems for the future. Providing a Standard Jewel conversion for the basic Gem types would have done just that. We would have liked to keep it even and provided a Standard Jewel, in fact it was our original plan, but the numbers did not add up because there were just too many and it would have devastating effects on the market because of the permanent nature of jewels in the game.

For those curious, it would have increased the number of Standard Jewels in the ecnonomy 20x. That's a lot!

Thanks guys!

-Carapace

please also check with your available data about rogue's mana consumption then... pretty sure it has been growing too much, that limit the gear build of a rogue to all potency gear... and with the trends going on like this, potency gear won't even be enough... rogues survived thanks to the hefty int that arcane ring and planar pendant give you, without losing too much primary stats

and also, in pve viewpoint, what makes rogue survives better than a mage is their dodge, not their armor... and even so, a razor shield only takes effect at 8 sec for every 20 sec, arcane shield for 15s every 27s, and juggernaut being the worst for 15s every 45sec, the value of this skills are definitely not the same in a fights that can ends in 15-20sec, or a fight where there is no potions involved, what i'm saying here is, the nerf unnecessarily makes rogues to become a lot weaker in pvp, additionally to their dependence on potions (highest of all classes) and pvp only nerf (-5% damage)

if you're seeking for balance in pve and pvp, you have to take a look at the basic differences between pve in pvp in your system... currently it is potions, and scaling. so, if you can make:
1. non-dps class to be able to deals damage, enough to not slow down a party
2. all classes to have pretty much same potion consumption rate

then probably you will get balance in both pve and pvp, without the necessity to add class specific temporary nerf (like rogue's -5% damage in pvp, that nullify pet's happiness bonus)

or, you can just easily crush the difference in pve and pvp, by either remove scaling system in pve, add longer potion cooldown in pve, or make potions usable in pvp

[Dex_addict]

Not really getting the hostility, but each to there own. My point was that as a general trend wars are much more focused on dmg dealing rather than damage taking, long sword vs sword and shield. This is about long term game dynamic, and i'm giving my feedback on the changes they have made.

The reasoning they gave for the armour nerf was that they want to make rogues less tanky, the same should apply to tanks and being 'roguey' no?

Forgetting other classes for the time being as it seems to upset some people. The problem I have with that is that a dagger rogue and a bow rogue should be played differently, one having more armour one less. Dagger rogues need to be in the middle of mobs, and at the moment that is pretty certain death in elite tind and glint. Bow rogues are obviously different any require less survivability as they kite round mobs not sit in the middle of them.

And thanks for you suggestion to change my play style, thats very useful, wish i had thought of that. :-P

I agree...way too many "Roguey Tanks" walking around if you ask me.... xD lmao
But no...on a serious note I think it is time to either give rogues their full damage back in PvP or time to start capping warriors damage too. Warriors seems to be gaining more in EVERY stat (alongside the huge amounts of hp and armor you would expect to see they are now gaining massive amounts of damage and even more recently warrior items are adding the same amount of crit as rogue items too.)
So how does it work out that a warrior can have high hp, high armor, high damage, low mana cost and an ever increasing critical...where are the sacrifices with this class?
Yet Rogues (initially the fast killing damage dealing class) Have low hp (unless using brut armor and nature gems therefore sacrificing even more mana) low mana (unless sacrificing hp by using potency gears), damage capped in pvp, critical now nerfed, and now armor nerfed too?
How is this balanced at all? When will everyone be happy? When all classes are walking around with equal hp, equal critical, equal damage, equal armor? The only thing dividing classes would be how they look and their skills? So what if a rogue has the "ability" to one-shot isn't that why all classes have different skills in the first place and why warriors and mages both have skills that allow them to be invulnerable? What else does a rogue have exactly that is beneficial to anyone? The fact that a rogue CAN one shot doesn't mean that they will or that they always do, the class is designed to kill fast before they are killed. Although I think that this update reducing the Rogues armor was a bit extreme, I do agree that all classes are supposed to have weaknesses...but that is on the understanding that rogues have access to their full damage ability! I don't know how much more the Rogue can continue to be handicapped before the whole class becomes entirely pointless to play. :/

[Tapash Bose]

If we use arcane ring instead glintsone ring then what's benefit of making the glintstone set?
With arcane ring armor would be 2294+170=2464
You don't want to use warfare gears and diamond jewels in your rogue.
You want to make rogue attacking tanking machine.
Use durability passive skill in rogue, use some warfare gears and use some diamond n nature jewels.
Move out of your comfort zone. Play some fair dodge game.

Its really really hilarious....
get out of 4th Standard....a noble diamond gives 26 armor..so how much noble diamond u need to compensate the losses? Do the maths if u can and tell me..
To have an educated discussion one needs to have a little bit of knowledge about the game ..
I have full 5 in durability but pets armor always overrides it same as the damage..I dont think u ever heard of that otherwise u not be speaking..
Warfare is for warriors..not for rogues
Right now i have slaterlock and wicked helm of brutality both of which increases my armor over my prev lvl 36 mythic set..
I guess from this discussion couple of points are very clear ..

• Getting directly to lvl 41 or 46 leaves one with little or no knowledge about the game
• Why some warriors have always problem getting parties while others are in high demand
• Better to learn what is the comfort zone of each class and what is their aim before starting commenting here.There are too many good threads by so many experts about almost every aspect of the game.It is always a good idea to read them first

[Iogouts]

The already placed gems will change too?


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