Characters at different levels

[kinzmet]

We have our own ideas, but we thought it would be fun to get your impressions as well:

- Why the spike at 5?
-Because its the entry level where you can trade
-Make toons for storage purposes.
-Because its a well populated twink bracket.
- Why the drop from 10 to 11?
-Because level 10 is a popular twinking bracket but going further than level 10 would make you face enemies with fortified jewels at level 15.
-Because a lots of twink gears with paracelsus and eye of Syrillax gems are bound to level 10
- Why the drop from 18 to 19?
-Because theres nothing level18s can do that level17s can't. So lots of player stick to level 17 and below.
-Because moving up ahead more than level17 would make you face oponents with highier tier jewel (excellent)
- Is the distribution what you would expect?
Yes, its what I would expect. IMO, twink population is really highier than endgame because of many reasons. Examples are - LB runs are easier, easier to gear up, casual players go there than the endgame, more enemies in twink PvP (It takes a minutes or so to fill the CTF endgame, while only seconds in twinks). In my opinion also, theres really no reason to stay at levels in between level 24 to level 55 except on twink brackets at level 41 and 46.

If you guys want a more balance distribution on all levels, then maybe give us reasons to stay on those unpopular levels. Beside from twinking purposes, maybe a monthly LB top players on every level? with prizes (not just banners). Maybe top player with highiest Hauntlet point at level xx, or Top players with fastest map (elite or normal in case of low level) clear, or exclusive items that can only be loot at certain level. These incentives would make players stay on all levels.

[Fyrce]

Ohh reasons to be at certain levels sure would be interesting.

This chart appears to be total toons at each level, which of course, would show more toons at the beginning levels and at the parking levels (pvp levels, easier levels, (previous) level cap levels).

It might be interesting, as someone as previously pointed out, to see toons that are active daily or weekly for x hours per day/week, just to see where the real activity is.

There will always be more toons at the lower levels though, due to parking and to people beginning the game and moving on or taking a break, etc etc.

[Naughtiest]

Also as we are at it. Lets talk about the elephant in the room. You can easily take those numbers you see at twink level down by about a 3rd. In my 2 years playing at those levels. Id go as far as saying 90% of the time theres a dummy either blocking or being farmed or holding a spot in the room till more members come online. Sad as it sounds, these numbers are spiking cos for every "pro" there is at these twink levels. Theres a dummy or a block.

[Niixed]

We have our own ideas, but we thought it would be fun to get your impressions as well:

- Why the spike at 5?
- Why the drop from 10 to 11?
- Why the drop from 18 to 19?
- Is the distribution what you would expect?

Thanks!

- g

I read through the thread so far and I had many of the same thoughts as everyone else.

A few things I'd like to add to the mix...

We all assume, I think, that STS' most ideal scenario would be to have the largest spike at endgame. I'm going with that assumption.

Here are my shots in the dark to explain why it hasn't happened...

1. The higher the level, the more complex and confusing the game can get. In terms of gear, knowledge and skill necessary to be 'top' player, endgame is by far the most challenging. There are zero company-sponsored guides to endgame, and very little in-game guidance to help to players along the way.
2. Endgame is, by far the absolute most expensive because of the constant stream of new gear. It's no mistake that 41 and 46 remain popular - players don't have to keep up with ever-changing gear demands. Glinstone, Antignome and the rapid release schedule for new weapons have taken a toll.
3. Lately, to be an endgamer is to be a guinea pig/beta tester.
4. 41 and 46 combined have more players than endgame, but then I think about the twinks too. Assuming this chart is of active players, you have way, way more players who aren't willing to embrace the latest & greatest at endgame than who are. I'd guess time and expense have a great deal to do with it. I suppose the endgame is still where the most money is though?

Level-based games are notorious for this kind of division. It's sad that the community is so spread out. Imagine how epic PvP and PvE would be if the concentrations were higher. I wish there were more incentive to get players to endgame or at least to have fewer/higher concentrations.

[Jiarijiba]

How about the activity per level? Can you keep us coming back?

[Nepos]

Its the gate in kraag city (lv 21 i think to proceed) that makes many newbies quit...

[Energizeric]

Here are some thoughts and analysis....

1) I'm assuming these numbers are "total" players rather than "active" players? If so, then it would be logical than many people try the game, and then quit after a short time. That is just normal and to be expected. So that would explain the spikes at the very low levels.

2) Another explanation is events.... Prior to there being events, I just had my main endgame character. Then when the first elondrian event happened and we started being given good loot for reaching silver/gold/platinum event tiers, it just became logical to run the event on as many characters as possible. And then when the Para and Eye gems were being given out, the number of players running the events on multiple toons increased drastically. Many of us, myself included, made a number of "extra" characters just to run events, and since it's easier and takes less time to make a lower level character, those are the ones that are out there. A good analysis of this would be to show a similar chart, but instead of total number of characters that exist for each level, how about the number of hours played in a given month for each level. I think you would find endgame would be the highest, and lower levels would only peak during an event.

3) Another reason lower levels are popular is that scaling based on level in PvE has failed. Why? Because many items have stats which do NOT scale. For example, pet happiness bonuses do not scale. So a level 5 player with munch mouth pet still gets 200+ armor from the happiness bonus, which will more than double his armor. Other items that have health/mana bonuses also do NOT scale. They give the same +50 or +100 health/mana bonus that the same item at end game does. As a result, twinks who are well geared are much more powerful for their level than higher level players. But if scaling was adjusted to account for this, then a new player with lousy gear would have no chance to complete a typical dungeon and would be discouraging. So this system encourages players to run events at twink levels.

4) As for the middle levels being dead, there is simply no reason to play the middle levels. There is no good loot to be had by running any of the mid level dungeons. For example, let's take level 31. You would expect this to be a popular level because of all the good mythic gear that exists at level 31. The problem is that none of that gear can actually be farmed by someone who is level 31. The level 31 mythic weapons are all discontinued. The armor/helm/ring and amulet all come in elite golden chests that cannot be farmed by level 31 players, only by endgame players.

5) With all the event gear that has come out over the past 2 years, the best items at most levels are now event gear. The legendary items that still drop in the dungeons -- none of them are worth much at all since none are the best for that level anymore. Other than a few eggs, I cannot think of any legendary gear at any level that is worth farming. And I think that is a big problem. In Pocket Legends, there was tons of gear to farm at every level. Everyone was always interested in farming "sets". Unfortunately, sets in AL are a recent addition, and no sets appear at lower levels.

6) Another phenomenon in Pocket Legends was farming for scaled gear. For example, level 56 gear could only be farmed by a level 56 player. A player level 60 or higher farming the same dungeon would get the same item in level 60. So having level 56 farmers became a popular thing. No such phenomenon exists in AL. The recent addition of the level 16 arcane weapons was a good addition to encourage lower level farming, but it should have been limited to players under a certain level. Unfortunately, most of the players farming for the arcane chests are endgame. If only players level 21 or lower could loot an arcane chests, that would have encouraged much more play at the lower levels.

In the end, what is killing AL is that the fun runs out after around level 16, and then you must level all the way up to 56 before any more fun is to be found. And that takes a lot of time, and I think many new players just get bored long before getting there and give up.

I began playing Pocket Legends during the level 66 cap, and it took me 6 months to reach endgame, which I did for the first time at level 71. That 6 months of leveling was tons of fun. I can't imagine having to do that in Arcane Legends -- it would be very boring as virtually nobody is running the lower and mid level non-elite dungeons. In Pocket Legends, you could join just about any dungeons and there were always random players running. You need to find a way to bring that aspect to AL, and the way to do it is by making desirable items that can only be farmed by lower and mid level players.

[Zeus]

Here are some thoughts and analysis....

1) I'm assuming these numbers are "total" players rather than "active" players? If so, then it would be logical than many people try the game, and then quit after a short time. That is just normal and to be expected. So that would explain the spikes at the very low levels.

2) Another explanation is events.... Prior to there being events, I just had my main endgame character. Then when the first elondrian event happened and we started being given good loot for reaching silver/gold/platinum event tiers, it just became logical to run the event on as many characters as possible. And then when the Para and Eye gems were being given out, the number of players running the events on multiple toons increased drastically. Many of us, myself included, made a number of "extra" characters just to run events, and since it's easier and takes less time to make a lower level character, those are the ones that are out there. A good analysis of this would be to show a similar chart, but instead of total number of characters that exist for each level, how about the number of hours played in a given month for each level. I think you would find endgame would be the highest, and lower levels would only peak during an event.

3) Another reason lower levels are popular is that scaling based on level in PvE has failed. Why? Because many items have stats which do NOT scale. For example, pet happiness bonuses do not scale. So a level 5 player with munch mouth pet still gets 200+ armor from the happiness bonus, which will more than double his armor. Other items that have health/mana bonuses also do NOT scale. They give the same +50 or +100 health/mana bonus that the same item at end game does. As a result, twinks who are well geared are much more powerful for their level than higher level players. But if scaling was adjusted to account for this, then a new player with lousy gear would have no chance to complete a typical dungeon and would be discouraging. So this system encourages players to run events at twink levels.

4) As for the middle levels being dead, there is simply no reason to play the middle levels. There is no good loot to be had by running any of the mid level dungeons. For example, let's take level 31. You would expect this to be a popular level because of all the good mythic gear that exists at level 31. The problem is that none of that gear can actually be farmed by someone who is level 31. The level 31 mythic weapons are all discontinued. The armor/helm/ring and amulet all come in elite golden chests that cannot be farmed by level 31 players, only by endgame players.

5) With all the event gear that has come out over the past 2 years, the best items at most levels are now event gear. The legendary items that still drop in the dungeons -- none of them are worth much at all since none are the best for that level anymore. Other than a few eggs, I cannot think of any legendary gear at any level that is worth farming. And I think that is a big problem. In Pocket Legends, there was tons of gear to farm at every level. Everyone was always interested in farming "sets". Unfortunately, sets in AL are a recent addition, and no sets appear at lower levels.

6) Another phenomenon in Pocket Legends was farming for scaled gear. For example, level 56 gear could only be farmed by a level 56 player. A player level 60 or higher farming the same dungeon would get the same item in level 60. So having level 56 farmers became a popular thing. No such phenomenon exists in AL. The recent addition of the level 16 arcane weapons was a good addition to encourage lower level farming, but it should have been limited to players under a certain level. Unfortunately, most of the players farming for the arcane chests are endgame. If only players level 21 or lower could loot an arcane chests, that would have encouraged much more play at the lower levels.

In the end, what is killing AL is that the fun runs out after around level 16, and then you must level all the way up to 56 before any more fun is to be found. And that takes a lot of time, and I think many new players just get bored long before getting there and give up.

I began playing Pocket Legends during the level 66 cap, and it took me 6 months to reach endgame, which I did for the first time at level 71. That 6 months of leveling was tons of fun. I can't imagine having to do that in Arcane Legends -- it would be very boring as virtually nobody is running the lower and mid level non-elite dungeons. In Pocket Legends, you could join just about any dungeons and there were always random players running. You need to find a way to bring that aspect to AL, and the way to do it is by making desirable items that can only be farmed by lower and mid level players.

Yes, the leveling absolutely sucks. In fact, it caused many of my friends to either quit or stay at 46 when the new level cap came. It needs to be made more exciting, somehow. If there's something valuable to farm at each level bracket in increments of 5, then while you're leveling you're also farming. If you're farming, you won't really notice you're leveling as well.

[BloodxBite]

Here are some thoughts and analysis....

1) I'm assuming these numbers are "total" players rather than "active" players? If so, then it would be logical than many people try the game, and then quit after a short time. That is just normal and to be expected. So that would explain the spikes at the very low levels.


2) Another explanation is events.... Prior to there being events, I just had my main endgame character. Then when the first elondrian event happened and we started being given good loot for reaching silver/gold/platinum event tiers, it just became logical to run the event on as many characters as possible. And then when the Para and Eye gems were being given out, the number of players running the events on multiple toons increased drastically. Many of us, myself included, made a number of "extra" characters just to run events, and since it's easier and takes less time to make a lower level character, those are the ones that are out there. A good analysis of this would be to show a similar chart, but instead of total number of characters that exist for each level, how about the number of hours played in a given month for each level. I think you would find endgame would be the highest, and lower levels would only peak during an event.

3) Another reason lower levels are popular is that scaling based on level in PvE has failed. Why? Because many items have stats which do NOT scale. For example, pet happiness bonuses do not scale. So a level 5 player with munch mouth pet still gets 200+ armor from the happiness bonus, which will more than double his armor. Other items that have health/mana bonuses also do NOT scale. They give the same +50 or +100 health/mana bonus that the same item at end game does. As a result, twinks who are well geared are much more powerful for their level than higher level players. But if scaling was adjusted to account for this, then a new player with lousy gear would have no chance to complete a typical dungeon and would be discouraging. So this system encourages players to run events at twink levels.

4) As for the middle levels being dead, there is simply no reason to play the middle levels. There is no good loot to be had by running any of the mid level dungeons. For example, let's take level 31. You would expect this to be a popular level because of all the good mythic gear that exists at level 31. The problem is that none of that gear can actually be farmed by someone who is level 31. The level 31 mythic weapons are all discontinued. The armor/helm/ring and amulet all come in elite golden chests that cannot be farmed by level 31 players, only by endgame players.

5) With all the event gear that has come out over the past 2 years, the best items at most levels are now event gear. The legendary items that still drop in the dungeons -- none of them are worth much at all since none are the best for that level anymore. Other than a few eggs, I cannot think of any legendary gear at any level that is worth farming. And I think that is a big problem. In Pocket Legends, there was tons of gear to farm at every level. Everyone was always interested in farming "sets". Unfortunately, sets in AL are a recent addition, and no sets appear at lower levels.

6) Another phenomenon in Pocket Legends was farming for scaled gear. For example, level 56 gear could only be farmed by a level 56 player. A player level 60 or higher farming the same dungeon would get the same item in level 60. So having level 56 farmers became a popular thing. No such phenomenon exists in AL. The recent addition of the level 16 arcane weapons was a good addition to encourage lower level farming, but it should have been limited to players under a certain level. Unfortunately, most of the players farming for the arcane chests are endgame. If only players level 21 or lower could loot an arcane chests, that would have encouraged much more play at the lower levels.

In the end, what is killing AL is that the fun runs out after around level 16, and then you must level all the way up to 56 before any more fun is to be found. And that takes a lot of time, and I think many new players just get bored long before getting there and give up.

I began playing Pocket Legends during the level 66 cap, and it took me 6 months to reach endgame, which I did for the first time at level 71. That 6 months of leveling was tons of fun. I can't imagine having to do that in Arcane Legends -- it would be very boring as virtually nobody is running the lower and mid level non-elite dungeons. In Pocket Legends, you could join just about any dungeons and there were always random players running. You need to find a way to bring that aspect to AL, and the way to do it is by making desirable items that can only be farmed by lower and mid level players.

I couldn't agree more, if you want advice sts listen to this guy and arcane would become something so much better than what it is. I think everyone agrees levelling sucks and there is nothing fun about it, no reason to stay at any level as dungeons are only for endgame and many drop little worth items. If you did everything this guy said I think I'd much enjoy it so much more, and it would make many more people stay.

[Hercules]

Hello again

This is normal in a game and this always happens when a game is so big and have many levels! Actually in the game all is in Endgame (Specially the gear (Arcane amulet, belt, helmet, ring, weapon) more and more new loot only for 56) I want to say "Is very different an item awarded in event (Legendary with low stats for every lvl) than a new arcane or mythic item for twinks. The new arcane weapons lvl 16 is a good idea, And STS must to see the potential of an Arcane item. Maybe if STS boost 17-36 again with new arcane items or mythic the people can decide to lvl up.

I think if STS create a new system of new Arcane item chest quest line for each Cap lvl (21,26,31,36) can boost again the LVL up.

I mean

* Tradable Arcane Item Chest lvl 21: Arcane weapon lvl 21, Arcane ring lvl 21, Arcane amulet lvl 21.

ONLY players lvl 17-21 can do a long quest in Dead city and Kraken isles. (Don't let players (1-16) or (37-56) to do the quest line)

Example: Reach 4.200 XP, Search 200 arcane essences in dead city, kill 500 skeletons, etc..

My idea is: The players while do the quest line of the arcane Item chest also lvl up until 21 lvl. When they complete all the quest line they will receive the Arcane Item chest with Arcane weapon, amu, and ring lvl 21.

What will happen later? Ok you can continue with a UPGRADE so if you decide you can continue with a new quest line to upgrade your Arcane weapon chest to lvl 26 with more powerfull stats.

The idea is upgrade the Arcane item chest ONLY until lvl 36.

* Tradable Arcane weapon chest lvl 26: Arcane weapon lvl 26, Arcane ring lvl 26, Arcane amulet lvl 26 (Kraken isles - Nord)
* Tradable Arcane weapon chest lvl 31: Arcane weapon lvl 31, Arcane ring lvl 31, Arcane amulet lvl 31 (Nord - Shuyal)
* Tradable Arcane weapon chest lvl 36: Arcane weapon lvl 36, Arcane ring lvl 36, Arcane amulet lvl 36 (Shuyal - Tindirin)

Devs can do a better idea about what I mean hehe :P

Thanks you.

-H

[Azerothraven]

I really like your idea espicially being guranteed an arc chest

[Oakmaiden]

I dont pvp at all,but my stash toons are geared up for events , crafting , and opening some crates for low lvl loot to sell to those who do. Now i find it hard to sell items at these lower levels because of the traders permit. I also use to gift items to new players ( low lvl eggs,chests n gears) but finding players to gift is difficult.

[Rintarolycan]

Lv 5 because some people was creating fake accounts on email account and people was using 2 devices and they were taking 5-6k for reaching lv 5 and they were getting golds for this also my friend told this to me and i tested i could get more gold than km3 and i bought an abaddon in 5-6 hours*it was a boring way to farm gold and i didnt do this more but when all accounts got respec scrolls i got 30+ respec scrolls kit and i sold them for 30k each but i didnt do this a lot i guess some people were doing this all day and an account lv 5 per 3 minutes and i guess there isnt a lot of twink in lv 5

[glendame]

Every now and then we will look at the game to see how people are progressing through the level curves. Here is a recent run:

Rogues are Blue
Mages are Orange
Warriors are Green



We have our own ideas, but we thought it would be fun to get your impressions as well:

- Why the spike at 5?
- Why the drop from 10 to 11?
- Why the drop from 18 to 19?
- Is the distribution what you would expect?

Thanks!

- g

Does this consist of active and inactive players?
I think the spikes in L41 and L46 could possibly consist of those who retired in those levels.

[Sevencent]

It's funny to notice 30-40, people either give up before hand or just grind through quickly.

[extrapayah]

nice ideas there from energizeric, but i have some comments regarding in making scaled gears to be only farmable by characters on that level

the idea is definitely good, encouraging players to enjoy all possible gaming experience they can, and as a side effect, will make lower level brackets filled with players, making it easier for new players by getting helps from veterans without the need to ask/beg. but in AL, the cost of creating alts is no different than creating another main character, thanks to pets, and it probably takes around 40% of the cost, both gold and time. so eventually, some players will ended up thinking their twink as their 'main'. then, this could lead to another problem, forcing developers to update content which can be enjoyable by each of the players' main character. and more problem to come when the content lead to unfair competition between lower leveled main and capped main, just like in gauntlets and regular energy-based events, where lower leveled main have advantage over capped main.

so before encouraging players to make alts, there are many things that need to be reconsidered with making alts in AL, especially in pets

[Castronox123]

The spike at 5 is so the avatar can trade.

[Vrazicak]

Why do people prefer having twinks? Because, you can get a decent KDR without having OP gear, when there are events, you have all the same privileges as endgame players, you don't need to change your gear every once in a while, you can work on your character more and more and equip it better and better, when big events end the boredom rules over again and endgame players who are not maxed out have no choice but to go back to km3 grind (which is sooooo boring) or doing elite aps and hoping to loot some elite runners chests while on the other hand twinks are having lots of fun at active twink levels where they always can find someone to fight in any PvP area, which you cannot always say for endgame, twink levels are not as competitive as endgame, and yes, twink level gear is significantly cheaper, but that doesn't mean all twinks are poor(I am), and if you ever had a twink, you would just know why it's better, it's an unexplainable feeling, having a great KDR ( like thanhdaoz, yes, xxbanditkingxx, weedology, iovestars, hucca, the almighty ursot etc.) I only exampled the players that are 100% confirmed legit KDRs... jokes on aside, I like being more active on lower levels cause you can be very competitive in PvP even with legendary pets like swift, korruption etc. I use my endgame just to supply my twink most honestly. I think I reached no point in this little speech of mine but yeah whatever.

[greekAL]

imo making the best endgame gears imposible to get make the most ppl lose their hope to be max geared and just quit endgame for twink lvls! i think endgame need more options of farm and more possible gears! compare glinstone set to antignome-banished i can say glinstone set was possible for all players not only for players that can afford crazy amounts of gold! making possible the best gears for all players give more farming options to the endgame will fix alot of things in the game! most of ppl ik already go offline till the season end cause nothing to do expect trying for a really hard drop that may u never get or farm km3! i think farm table of endgame need a fix at all!

[Faliziaga]

I am interested in seeing how many players of each level have claimed the free boss loot elixirs, maybe you could visualize it by adding another bar to the diagram.