Samael vs the brothers whim

[Z]

You're also ignoring the insanely strong passive and passive healing ability of Sam, Zhau.

Trust me, this pet does not come close to any of the arcane pets.

I ignored them purposely, considering it seems no one seen the brothers abilities yet. I was just comparing the official stats that has been available. And to oldmurda youre right, I dont pvp much but the idea of running faster and habing more dodge is quite appealing

[Z]

And when my mage has 3400 health I really dont think id miss 100

[Youngmurda]

And I am talking about your statement that 5% dmg is not big difference. Tell me, 20-25 more dmg and 100 more health, which will you choose when your myth rogue has over 3k HP.

Same thing applies on rogue. More dmg a character has, more advantages percentage increase will give.

100health, health regen and mana regen is very useful dude. As a rouge u can still crit ridiculous DMG without the extra 5% boost. So I'd pick the extra health and regenerations Sam has instead.

[falmear]

For me +100 health in PvP can be a big deal and the passive healing is very good because my armor sucks and I need as much health as possible without sacrificing damage. Livegiver is crappy so I don't even use the heal over time upgrade. However mythic rogues have more health and armor then mythic mages. And on top of that rogues do more damage. So what do you guys really want? Samael 2.0, with more health, more damage and better everything else? The game starts to escalate out of control with damage. And this is not taking into account how hard it is to kill warriors right now. This is an interesting pet and just wait until people using it in PvP or PvE. Just because no one will want to pay 30m for a pet is not justification to boost this pet.

[Z]

That ability to pull and stun is fairly impressive

[Emmacheese]

Well for me sammy wins, and I have them both (even tho mine is only level 15) I really miss Sams heal too when I have the brothers out :-/ I'm really disappointed tbh Jon pvp'd with his yesterday and he said he won't be doing that again!

[Emmacheese]

That ability to pull and stun is fairly impressive

It's ok but it's not a patch on banish (when Sam isn't being lazy that is)

[Zeus]

Well for me sammy wins, and I have them both (even tho mine is only level 15) I really miss Sams heal too when I have the brothers out :-/ I'm really disappointed tbh Jon pvp'd with his yesterday and he said he won't be doing that again!

It's an upgraded abaddon, which is slightly dissapointing. :/

[Azepeiete]

A very largely upgraded abaddon. As I don't own the brothers, my observations aren't solid, but I believe sts did an awesome job with this.

If you expected a banish from the brothers then i completely disagree with you. A trap proc is an AWESOME arcane and on top of it it reduces armor. This means your dmg to opponents increase while they are being perfectly grouped for you. On top of at, rogues shouldn't need trap anymore. This is awesome, especially in the earlier maps. In a pvp perspective, I think it's just nice to have the dodge, speed, and huge dmg. I maintain that 5% dmg is worth more than 10% crit. All of course, in my personal opinion.

[Limsi]

A very largely upgraded abaddon. As I don't own the brothers, my observations aren't solid, but I believe sts did an awesome job with this.

If you expected a banish from the brothers then i completely disagree with you. A trap proc is an AWESOME arcane and on top of it it reduces armor. This means your dmg to opponents increase while they are being perfectly grouped for you. On top of at, rogues shouldn't need trap anymore. This is awesome, especially in the earlier maps. In a pvp perspective, I think it's just nice to have the dodge, speed, and huge dmg. I maintain that 5% dmg is worth more than 10% crit. All of course, in my personal opinion.

Exactly. Well it's impossible to please everyone with their standards of what an arcane pet should be. Indeed Samael is a great PvP pet with the mana and hp heal as well as the banish, but people should not forget about the PvE aspect of the game. I'd take the brothers any time of the day when it comes to elite runs.

[falmear]

Does anyone know if this pet is a limited time thing? Or will it be in crates forever? Can anyone in STS confirm?

[Limsi]

Does anyone know if this pet is a limited time thing? Or will it be in crates forever? Can anyone in STS confirm?

This was posted in the announcement section:

Locked Grand Crates of the Watch
Pet Eggs have been added to Locked Grand Crates of the watch that will only have a chance of dropping during the Tarlok's Wrath event Dec 9 to Jan 6. These may rarely drop when opening a Locked Crate:
• New Holiday Arcane rarity pet egg: The Brothers Whim
• Mythic rarity pet eggs: Slag, Ripmaw and Abbadon
You only have a chance of obtaining these pet eggs from Locked Grand Crates of the Watch from Dec 9 to Jan 6. After Jan 6, these pet eggs will no longer drop.

[csyui]

This was posted in the announcement section:

Locked Grand Crates of the Watch
Pet Eggs have been added to Locked Grand Crates of the watch that will only have a chance of dropping during the Tarlok's Wrath event Dec 9 to Jan 6. These may rarely drop when opening a Locked Crate:
• New Holiday Arcane rarity pet egg: The Brothers Whim
• Mythic rarity pet eggs: Slag, Ripmaw and Abbadon
You only have a chance of obtaining these pet eggs from Locked Grand Crates of the Watch from Dec 9 to Jan 6. After Jan 6, these pet eggs will no longer drop.

We absolutely don't know whether it will be discontinued right after event or not. The post on forum says it's holiday arcane rarity pet egg. But the pet description in game is the same as other arcane pet. (Not saying it's holiday exclusive.)

I really don't want to see developers bring up "Oops, you guys misunderstood us again."

[falmear]

Thanks Lim.

[Kakashis]

The brothers pull in and stun ability is very interesting. I would love to have that kind of crowd control ability on a pet! However, Frost eye does the same thing but without the stun!

[Joncheese]

Ok so i thought i would just give mine and Emmas opinions as we capped the Twins last night:

Overall Stats of Pet

In our opinion the Twins Base Stats are pretty good on the mages, yes you lose some crit, but the extra 30 in damage certainly makes up for it and the 15% speed boost is just awesome. You really cant complain about the base stats of the pet, STS arent going to make another Samael and we wouldnt have wanted a 'Holiday' version anyway. You dont want 2 of the same pet do you? That would just be silly. Also we wouldnt have wanted to buy an extremely expensive version of the one we already have...... Although no doubt we probably would have done.

Passive Ability

We are fairly happy with the passive. The chance to provide -10% speed and armor to the opponent is great, and the final Passive can hit up to 4. This means as a mage and a rogue you can kill faster. Now, whether it be timed runs or PVP this should be an awesome passive... Theoretically in PVP you are 25% faster than your opponent. This passive COULD be the difference in a fight, and in PVE this is going to be a valuable difference against bosses, and with us having 2 of them, the mobs in timed runs are going to be interesting.... We are going to test this more later tonight.

Arcane Ability

So, this is the issue for us. This is the only thing we are undecided on. The Trap is good...... But seems somewhat unreliable. We leveled them in wt4 and Undim and every time we popped their arcane it seemed to be a gamble as to what was going to happen. Sometimes they would drag in 4 mobs, other times they would drag in 8. Sometimes they would be dragged from far out, sometimes they wouldnt be. Its a lottery in our opinion. Also, the stun after the trap seems to be.... erm...... cack.

I also tried this pet in PVP. Now admittedly it was at a lower level, but the arcane and passives still did the same thing. It was awful and the trap was pointless.

Summary

Great pet but it NEEDS to have its arcane ability looked at. STS need to in our opinion buff the Ability by:

1. Making the Stun Guarenteed
2. Adjusting the radius of the Arcane ability.
3. Guarentee the amount of mobs pulled in.


If you do this the pet will be worthy of PVP and PVE. This isnt much to ask for i dont think, and will actaully mean that the pet is worthy of the Arcane status.

Jon and Emm

So me and em tested them in Pvp a lot more tonight.

The arcane ability only seems to be useful as kind of an axe throw of sorts. We tried it out in 5v5 match and it worked surprisingly well, dragging the other team into a temporary ball, and whilst it is good the range and unreliability of it needs to be addressed. Also the stun is just awful. Changing both of these would make it perfect in our opinion.

The passive however is something else entirely...... Just wow. The bleed dmg is just immense. Once u start bleeding every tick is about 100. Your health seriously drops when this buff finally kicks in and if ur not careful they can actually kill u very fast. It's impressive.

Also we noticed that fireball has roughly an extra 100 dmg per ball, same with lightning, and if they crit. Light was topping out over 3k.

I'd say the pet is growing on us.... Quickly

[Valkiryas]

I dind't play with Samael or with the Whims Bothers but I'm pretty sure that Samael could beat very easy the whim bothers because their arcane hability is "weak' against the Samael's arcane ability.

Also Samael have heal regen and a nice critical

[Crowsfoot]

First I am only going to talk about the mage class, someone else can discuss their own class if they want. Also I don't know everything on the whim brothers so this is mostly going based on what I have read. For an arcane mage and PvP, Samael is best IMO. Because you already have a lot of damage what you lack is crit. With Samael I can get my crit to 34.88%. This on top of +35 INT & +10% damage makes you a formidable opponent in PvP. And his stun while doesn't work as often as I like is very good when it does work.

Now if we look at brothers whim you have similar stats +35 INT and 15% damage. So this makes it the best damage pet for mage but sacrificing crit. Mages lack anyway of getting crit. So to look at it another way its 34.88% vs 24.88%. Your lightning is critting 1 in 3 vs 1 in 4 times. So if you crit with broths whim you will do more damage because of the 5% more damage bonus. But you are critting less IMO for a mage Samael wins in damage. Because an extra 5% isn't a huge difference. Brothers whim wins in speed because 15% speed in PvP is under estimated and will help you kite and get away while you are dieing. 10% dodge isn't anything to get excited over. The arcane is unknown until I see it in PvP. A description can say whatever it wants but how it works is completely different. So I will reserve judgement on it but from what I read in another thread it sounds very interesting.

If we look at PvE I think this is where Brothers Whim has a real advantage. And if we start to consider doing timed runs then this pet really starts to look great. 15% speed in timed runs is OP. With the increased damage, this will be very good for certain maps. Where having a big crit doesn't matter as much because just stuff dies fast, so think of various easy elite maps, tombs, etc. Samael has the edge IMO for harder maps because of his arcane ability. If you have to beat on mobs for a longer period of time Samael can help with his banishment by thinning the herd or getting rid of that last remaining mob. Also Samael gives you an extra +100 health. And stunning is useful on these harder maps and bosses. Also if the arcane for Brothers whim is correct then a rogue trap on this pet will be great in PvE timed runs. Because doing pulls with this pet will improve times because the more mobs are packed together closely, the faster you can kill them.

So for me I would go for Samael in PvP. Though I think Brothers whim will not be a slouch in PvP. But we will have to see how its arcane works in PvP. And what exactly the passive ability is. But let me go out on a limb and say I think Brothers Whim is more geared to a rogue then a mage. Correct me if I am wrong but with +25 DEX and +10 INT with +15% damage I believe makes it the highest damage pet there is for a rogue. Factor in a rogue's natural ability for crits, I think rogues will be critting more damage with this pet. Also consider next level cap where a rogue's crit will increase and this pet will start to look better with its +15% damage.

You really need to work on your over use of rhetorical writing. After reading you have labled as follows.

1) Brother Whim has an additional +5% damage but lacks the +10% crit that Samael offers. The dodge chance is unimportant.

2) Samael stuns, the brothers don't.

3) Samael has his passive heal to consider

4) the speed bonus makes the brothers better for timed runs.

Points you missed:

1) Samael's banish ability is unmatched for power in PvE making it superior for most elite timed runs (I agree the brothers would be best for the crypts).

2) the Brothers can inflict very high bleed damage (57 damage a tick to me, who has 2004 armor) to four targets at a time. The proc rate is very high for their bleed.

3) the Brothers reduce movement speed of those they attack and pull mobs into mele range with their ability (this is huge for warriors like myself in both PvE and PvP).

4) the Brothers' ability reduces armor by 10%.

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For a mage or rogue, I would go with samuel. But, as a warrior I actually really like the Brothers for PvP. They are the best pet for anti-kiting. Couple that with +15% damage and the high bleed damage, this pet should be great for long fights (what warriors are known for).

[phillyr]

Me and some people were talking in another post in"aimed shot vs lightning" and the main reason aimed does more damage is the armor debuff the skill has, so I would think the brothers aren't getting a fair assessment. -10% armor would make your attacks hit that much harder I would think...as a mage with crap for armor to begin with, it is kind of intimidating

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[gatzoo5505]

I have the brothers whim as a maxxed out mage its a disappointing pet. The stun is non existent has not seen it happen once. Without a reliable stun this pet in my humble opinion is a war pet.

Just imagine a war sucking a bunch of rogues n mage n knocking them off 1 by 1. Combo that with axe throw whoa... tks sts for making warriors more op.

Seriously if I was a war ill be drooling for this pet. Yes you do lose the crit sam offers but I think the arcane ability n awesome bleed damage from its passive makes up for it.