Arena Chest Gem Unveil/Discussion

**Serancha** · 02-03-2015, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Raregem

So in pvp we (rogues) are looking at warriors taking away mana and now mages taking away 9% health in 6 seconds.. and we get dodge reduction.. I have no words. GG

Dodge doesn't even work in pvp - at least not against skill attacks. Since just about nobody uses normal attacks, I'm going to agree with you on this. No rogue will ever use this gem.

Good work on the other classes though, Carapace.

**Carapace** · 02-03-2015, 05:00 PM

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

**Zeus** · 02-03-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Carapace

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.

Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

**Kriticality** · 02-03-2015, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Carapace

I was toying with the idea of a stun for rogues, but that seemed a bit overpowered. I'm open to other ideas, naturally

Mana Regen Burst? I like Zeus idea as well.

**Raregem** · 02-03-2015, 05:10 PM

Is it possible for the mana drain or hp drain to stack on proc? Like if two warriors proc at the same time would it be 10% mana drain or 18% health with mages? Is there an immunity period after being hit?

Zeus and Bunk both have good ideas to change the dodge.

**Carapace** · 02-03-2015, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Raregem

Is it possible for the mana drain or hp drain to stack on proc? Like if two warriors proc at the same time would it be 10% mana drain or 18% health with mages? Is there an immunity period after being hit?

Zeus and Bunk both have good ideas to change the dodge.

It's possible, though unlikely given the proc rate frequency for a gang of warriors to widdle your mana down with this implementation yes. I would advice against being cornered like this regardless of the arena gem proc however!

**Carapace** · 02-03-2015, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Zeus

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.

Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

That sounds like a promising idea. I'm interpreting this as the targets effective damage output becomes 95%, 97%, 98.5%, 100%?

**Ravager** · 02-03-2015, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zeus

How about diminishing reducing damage on proc? 5%, 3%, 1.5%, gone.

Taking into account that rogues have almost no DoT attacks, it seems fine. Of course, this could be my bias kicking in.

Note: not to be confused with damage reduction like that on Singe. This form applies on target.

This idea seems good for PVP but for PVE it further pushes away the need for other classes.

Also is the sorcerer's proc going to be affected by curse? I know many mages take out the DOT effects to PVP so they aren't constantly damaged by curse and die.

**extrapayah** · 02-03-2015, 05:39 PM

well, since this is themed as arena gem where survivability is needed,
a debuff of reducing damage, hit, and crit is better themed

and it should have same or slightly more powerful reduction than what toon's spell can do
because:
1. it is a proc (by chance, compared sure 100% debuff on spell), and
2. the infamous non-stacking debuffs (will effectively overriden by spell's debuff)

and like i said a 3.5/2% chance is practically useless, just see what happen to necro curse gem...

ofc this is a bias from PvE player

**noobseller** · 02-03-2015, 05:41 PM

Useless gem only good for twinks but hey there are only rogues at end game. Other classes dont count. If sts doesnt get their *** up I see many quitters soon.

**Raregem** · 02-03-2015, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Carapace

It's possible, though unlikely given the proc rate frequency for a gang of warriors to widdle your mana down with this implementation yes. I would advice against being cornered like this regardless of the arena gem proc however!

Lol Well often in PVP you will find teams with 2, and even at times 4 warriors, this will give them a reason to stack on sides more. Is it possible to avoid the stacking of the proc?

**Zeus** · 02-03-2015, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Carapace

That sounds like a promising idea. I'm interpreting this as the targets effective damage output becomes 95%, 97%, 98.5%, 100%?

Yes, exactly.

**Haligali** · 02-03-2015, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Ravager

Minimizing the strength loss is the only decent way for a warrior to use it. For me, I'm not looking for a defensive gem. Most warriors I know look for offense rather than defense.

41 Bonesaw > 41 Bulwark
Grand Blood Gems > Grand Life Gems
Grand Blood Gems > Enchanted Eye of Syrrilax

Those are my opinions and usually what I recommend when people ask me. Once you reach a certain armor level for warrior in PVP to survive an aimshot while jugg'd or for PVE to survive boss red zones, you don't need more armor at all.

I don't think there is a trade-off combination that is good for warrior without making the gem too strong. For 41, rage gems are 3/2 and better than normal gems 3. I would like at least to see 3 + (some armor value) for normal arena gems. I wouldn't grand the gem because I'll reserve grand slots for grand blood gems just like I use normal rage gems while crafting daily currently.

I know, i realized on the tarlok chart that 1 str>3 dex for wars, but it seems like there is no good solution here, maybe a normal -0 primary, 0.2*item lvl; grand -1 primary 0.4*item lvl? Wanna see that chart too or pointless? Im afraid thats too strong for low lvls again.

**Ravager** · 02-03-2015, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Haligali

I know, i realized on the tarlok chart that 1 str>3 dex for wars, but it seems like there is no good solution here, maybe a normal -0 primary, 0.2*item lvl; grand -1 primary 0.4*item lvl? Wanna see that chart too or pointless? Im afraid thats too strong for low lvls again.

I think its just too hard to find a good balance (stat-wise) but thanks for the effort. I think carapace is focusing on the proc end of it now.

Considering the proc, I think we should swap the crit reduction on sorcerers with the recommended rogue dmg reduction on mobs. Dmg reduction in pve for rogues further pushes away a need for any other class.

So rogues should get: reduce chance to hit as stated previously and crit reduction

Sorcerers get: diminishing dmg reduction and the bleed that was mentioned previously. please make sure the bleed is not affected by curse as many sorcerers in pvp do take out DOT effects to avoid getting instantly killed by curse. Otherwise they won't consider using it.

warriors: not sure if there's room for improvement or it stays the same. armor reduction doesn't seem to helpful as zeus stated earlier, most mythic pets, arcane and many legendary pets already reduce by around 15%. 15% trumps the 8%. Maybe make it mana leech instead of mana damage since armor reduction sucks? Dmg mana 5% but only a portion of it is converted to the user?

**Carapace** · 02-03-2015, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Raregem

Lol Well often in PVP you will find teams with 2, and even at times 4 warriors, this will give them a reason to stack on sides more. Is it possible to avoid the stacking of the proc?

Yes, I will put in a temporary immunity so that it does not stack excessively, however the potential for this scenario to unfold would be very rare.

Damage reduction for Rogues proc sounds pretty reasonable.

**Madnex** · 02-03-2015, 08:13 PM

Isn't it about time to adjust the proc rates depending on class? You've already given the wilds amulet and most importantly, the newest mythic amulet a warrior proc and now you're giving the new gem a sorcerer proc?

The damage reduction for rogue seems like a decent idea though.

**BaronB** · 02-04-2015, 01:19 AM

Sorcerer Proc regardless of gem or combinations: 3.5% chance to proc crit reduced by 6.5% for 6.5 seconds, and adds bleed that damages 1.5% health every second for 6 seconds (9% total, bosses would be immune or take a reduced amount of damage, say 0.5% per tick)

Mages have DOT attacks on Fb,ice,clock,curse(in a way)... I really dont think mages are in need of anything else that just takes away life over time esp such a minute amount -.-.

Also the reduction of just 6.5% crit as opposed to the 8% armour reduction and the massive 15% dodge reduced being offered to warriors an rogues seems a little stingy towards mages.

Why cannot these figures be rounded and each class be offered the same %? Im sorry but to be offered a petty crit reduction is an absolute insult to mages when you have rogues running around with ridiculous crit base stats already and to top it off Aimed shot stacks on itself anyways when in use giving rogues more then enough top up for any lost from the petty mage proc.

Id like to maybe see talk of stun immunity prehaps however that in reality should have been implement into mage shields a long time ago (instead it got slipped into the latest nekro buff...by mistake? lel)

Now if these gems must keep the crit reduction as a proc for mages, how about then instead of the 1.5% of hp bleed we have maybe a hp regen similer to what a warriors HOR has to offer.

Lets please stop over loving rogues in this game and maybe share some of that love with the other classes that populate this game please.

**goldmarket** · 02-04-2015, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by BaronB

Mages have DOT attacks on Fb,ice,clock,curse(in a way)... I really dont think mages are in need of anything else that just takes away life over time esp such a minute amount -.-.

Also the reduction of just 6.5% crit as opposed to the 8% armour reduction and the massive 15% dodge reduced being offered to warriors an rogues seems a little stingy towards mages.

Why cannot these figures be rounded and each class be offered the same %? Im sorry but to be offered a petty crit reduction is an absolute insult to mages when you have rogues running around with ridiculous crit base stats already and to top it off Aimed shot stacks on itself anyways when in use giving rogues more then enough top up for any lost from the petty mage proc.

Id like to maybe see talk of stun immunity prehaps however that in reality should have been implement into mage shields a long time ago (instead it got slipped into the latest nekro buff...by mistake? lel)

Now if these gems must keep the crit reduction as a proc for mages, how about then instead of the 1.5% of hp bleed we have maybe a hp regen similer to what a warriors HOR has to offer.

Lets please stop over loving rogues in this game and maybe share some of that love with the other classes that populate this game please.

I agree rogues have huge crit and should be reduced

**BaronB** · 02-04-2015, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by goldmarket

I agree rogues have huge crit and should be reduced

No.

My post wasnt about reducing anything on rogues.

My point was when rogues do have such huge crit already a measly 6.5% reduction as a proc is just not good enough to make any kind of difference at all.

**epicrrr** · 02-04-2015, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by BaronB

No.

My post wasnt about reducing anything on rogues.

My point was when rogues do have such huge crit already a measly 6.5% reduction as a proc is just not good enough to make any kind of difference at all.

At 3.5% chance (or a possible stack not sure) this is very low and imo wont be that overpowered to PVP; how about changing mages gem proc to 3.5% chance to add 6.5% crit bonus and reduced target crit 6.5% ( 2-3 targets) within that 6.5 sec duration.