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Thread: Rogue 10% rebuff Nerf? More like 25%

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theillist1 View Post
    Maybe some people should just put down the game and go get a doctorate in ALanomic's. But finally someone sees my frustration.
    Anyway. My philosophy is don't NERF. BUFF. You keep needing everything it destroys game ingenuity. Your taking AWAY from the fun. So, my only point for this whole thread was to point out that rogues are walking around with debuff that takes away from the enjoyment I signed up for.
    Instead of NERFing the rogue, buff the other classes. Like mage. Para Gem solved the main issue of rogue vs warrior.
    Yes lets just keep buffing things. Whenever something is op lets buff everything else to be up to par. When elon bulwark was op it shouldnt have been nerfed. All other weapons shouldve been buffed to be just as OP. Nekro should get its original stats back aswell as keeping its current ability. Lets just give it 40% banish aswell why not. And to make things more fair lets buff warriors with 3-4k crits aswell. And why cant we use elixirs in pvp? Stop taking our buffs away. (Hint - that was sarcasm)
    Last edited by Arrowz; 05-28-2015 at 09:53 AM.

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    Arrowz , maybe we started on the wrong foot. You obviously know endgame! That's something Ive never done. I'm simply a Twink PvP player. If I want to do endgame I go play WoW or EQ. your point is well taken on over buffing everything. My issue here on the general scheme... Is well balance on all PvP tiers. Maybe you would see my POV if you had a lvl 8 too. There is a Gemming imbalance at this tier between 8-10. There's gear that u can't get at 8-9 (Tarlok) and gem quality that 9-10 gets that 8 doesnt. So yes, you have SOME valid points on the NERFING ENIGMA. The NERF to rogues is just icing on the cake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theillist1 View Post
    Arrowz , maybe we started on the wrong foot. You obviously know endgame! That's something Ive never done. I'm simply a Twink PvP player. If I want to do endgame I go play WoW or EQ. your point is well taken on over buffing everything. My issue here on the general scheme... Is well balance on all PvP tiers. Maybe you would see my POV if you had a lvl 8 too. There is a Gemming imbalance at this tier between 8-10. There's gear that u can't get at 8-9 (Tarlok) and gem quality that 9-10 gets that 8 doesnt. So yes, you have SOME valid points on the NERFING ENIGMA. The NERF to rogues is just icing on the cake.
    Completely wrong, I have never played endgame. i only play lvl 17-18. I simply use my brain and take into account that what affects twinks affects endgame aswell. And Rogues are easily the OP class at twink levels aswell. Instead of blaming your struglles on the dmg debuff maybe you should focus on getting better. I beat singe tanks using dova back when I had my rogue. And no duh there is a gemming imbalance. Gems get stronger at higher lvls. There is a gemming difference between lvl 16 and 17. It doesnt matter much anymore anyways because once jewels come out lvl 5-9 will be the same, lvl 10-14 will be the same, etc.

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    Lol my struggles? You are clearly misinformed. I do just fine. Now stop the rage. I try to ease your noob
    rage by complimenting you and you go compete noob rage mode. Go cry somewhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowz View Post
    Completely wrong, I have never played endgame. i only play lvl 17-18. I simply use my brain and take into account that what affects twinks affects endgame aswell. And Rogues are easily the OP class at twink levels aswell. Instead of blaming your struglles on the dmg debuff maybe you should focus on getting better. I beat singe tanks using dova back when I had my rogue. And no duh there is a gemming imbalance. Gems get stronger at higher lvls. There is a gemming difference between lvl 16 and 17. It doesnt matter much anymore anyways because once jewels come out lvl 5-9 will be the same, lvl 10-14 will be the same, etc.
    I can understand what Theillist is saying. He might not have worded it well enough for some to understand but his issue not the number of the official debuff % as much as it is the difference of damage between the rogue and tank/mage in pvp at low levels. You are stating that the nerf is 10% and yes it is but the damage difference in pvp between a rogue and tank becomes for example, 27%, with NIGHTSHADE equipped. You are right, we all know that 10% is the nerf for dmg on rogues in pvp, which is fair but the game mechanics is flawed depriving rogues of pet dmg-buff and THIS is the issue. This flawed system makes it very hard for rogues to survive at twink levels because rogue twinks dont have the crit that endgamers do.

    At lvl 17-18 most will not understand real twinking. Twinking actually means "low level" maxed players with ""limited"' skill/stat points. Low level and limited skill points are the key phrases here. Lvl 17--18 used to be endgame pvp in lvl 21 cap. So a lvl 17-18 rogue with enough skill points to max out passives and max out skills, cannot fairly judge the issue faced by the real twinks which range from lvl 8-13. ( Besides this, arrowz do you by any chance now play a lvl 13 tank? I think I came across a certain tank with your ign :P If so then I can understand the protest. )

    'What affects endgame affects twinks as well' you said. No it does not. Endgame rogues kill in combos. At low levels, it is different. No rogue kills in combos unless its a naked mage. They die in combos though from para-fed OP tanks and that is precisely why the OP is being vocal about it.

    10% dmg nerf had always been there, one might say - rogues have been nerfed since forever, why cry now?

    1. It is because in the past - there were not many damage buffing pets around to tip the balance in favour of twink tanks. The 10% nerf is not the problem. It is the flawed game mechanics which deprives rogues of more damage than intended which becomes a problem at twinking levels.

    2. In the past the gear was such that rogues needed the nerf, since tanks had no gear which buffed their dmg stats. Twink gear now gives the damage stats and mana to tank, does it not? Tanks can now use para gems and damage jewels also. So the current situation is not the same as in the past.
    Last edited by Earlingstad; 05-31-2015 at 01:27 AM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ameyra View Post
    I can understand what Theillist is saying. He might not have worded it well enough for some to understand but his issue not the number of the official debuff % as much as it is the difference of damage between the rogue and tank/mage in pvp at low levels. You are stating that the nerf is 10% and yes it is but the damage difference in pvp between a rogue and tank becomes for example, 27%, with NIGHTSHADE equipped. You are right, we all know that 10% is the nerf for dmg on rogues in pvp, which is fair but the game mechanics is flawed depriving rogues of pet dmg-buff and THIS is the issue. This flawed system makes it very hard for rogues to survive at twink levels because rogue twinks dont have the crit that endgamers do.

    At lvl 17-18 most will not understand real twinking. Twinking actually means "low level" maxed players with ""limited"' skill/stat points. Low level and limited skill points are the key phrases here. Lvl 17--18 used to be endgame pvp in lvl 21 cap. So a lvl 17-18 rogue with enough skill points to max out passives and max out skills, cannot fairly judge the issue faced by the real twinks which range from lvl 8-13. ( Besides this, the rumour is that arrowz you play a lvl 13 TANK now but idk if that rumour is true or if playing tank colours your opinion) :P

    'What affects endgame affects twinks as well' you said. No it does not. Endgame rogues kill in combos. At low levels, it is different. No rogue kills in combos unless its a naked mage. They die in combos though from para-fed OP tanks and that is precisely why the OP is being vocal about it.

    10% dmg nerf had always been there, one might say - rogues have been nerfed since forever, why cry now?

    1. It is because in the past - there were not many damage buffing pets around to tip the balance in favour of twink tanks. The 10% nerf is not the problem. It is the flawed game mechanics which deprives rogues of more damage than intended which becomes a problem at twinking levels.

    2. In the past the gear was such that rogues needed the nerf, since tanks had no gear which buffed their dmg stats. Twink gear now gives the damage stats and mana to tank, does it not? Tanks can now use para gems and damage jewels also. So the current situation is not the same as in the past.
    Thanks God for amellanos amellana haha.

    Say i have 143 dmg in town with singe in pvp i have 119 from what im seeing thats not just 10% debuff.

    Anyhow I gave up on this issue long ago whatever the case. What bothers me is why STS continues to give us pets with damage bonus, that shouldve been replaced long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ameyra View Post
    I can understand what Theillist is saying. He might not have worded it well enough for some to understand but his issue not the number of the official debuff % as much as it is the difference of damage between the rogue and tank/mage in pvp at low levels. You are stating that the nerf is 10% and yes it is but the damage difference in pvp between a rogue and tank becomes for example, 27%, with NIGHTSHADE equipped. You are right, we all know that 10% is the nerf for dmg on rogues in pvp, which is fair but the game mechanics is flawed depriving rogues of pet dmg-buff and THIS is the issue. This flawed system makes it very hard for rogues to survive at twink levels because rogue twinks dont have the crit that endgamers do.

    Very hard for rogues to survive at twinks lol. Thats why there are just as many rogues as warriors right? And rogues don't need the per dmg because THEY ALREADY DO TWICE AS MUCH DMG AS ANY OTHER CLASS. If rogues were given their pet dmg they would dominate all twink lvls and I can't even imagine endgame.

    At lvl 17-18 most will not understand real twinking. Twinking actually means "low level" maxed players with ""limited"' skill/stat points. Low level and limited skill points are the key phrases here. Lvl 17--18 used to be endgame pvp in lvl 21 cap. So a lvl 17-18 rogue with enough skill points to max out passives and max out skills, cannot fairly judge the issue faced by the real twinks which range from lvl 8-13. ( Besides this, arrowz do you by any chance now play a lvl 13 tank? I think I came across a certain tank with your ign :P If so then I can understand the protest. )

    Really so lvl 17-18 isnt twinking. Is lvl 15-16 real twinking? Its only the most populated bracket in the game. Are you gonna say 2 points makes a difference between real twinking and not? So your saying 1 point in nox, 1 point in pierce and 2 passive int counts as maxed skills and maxed passives? Lmao. Your funny. Not eveb close to maxed skills at this lvl. The only maxed skill any class used this lvl is aimed or curse and some have maxed venge but most are 4/5.

    'What affects endgame affects twinks as well' you said. No it does not. Endgame rogues kill in combos. At low levels, it is different. No rogue kills in combos unless its a naked mage. They die in combos though from para-fed OP tanks and that is precisely why the OP is being vocal about it.

    If your gonna quote me atleast use what I actually said. I said "what affects twinks affects endgame aswell". You can't give rogues pet dmg back so twink rogues are happy because this would destroy endgame pvp which is the most populated lvl of any and is probably where sts makes most of their money. Your simply writing off a big part of the player base just to low lvl twinks happy. And if a rogue is dying in one combo then they have terrible gear and that is a bigger issue than the pet dmg.

    10% dmg nerf had always been there, one might say - rogues have been nerfed since forever, why cry now?

    1. It is because in the past - there were not many damage buffing pets around to tip the balance in favour of twink tanks. The 10% nerf is not the problem. It is the flawed game mechanics which deprives rogues of more damage than intended which becomes a problem at twinking levels.

    Samael and hammerjaw have been around literally for year. Rogues have had them literally for years.

    2. In the past the gear was such that rogues needed the nerf, since tanks had no gear which buffed their dmg stats. Twink gear now gives the damage stats and mana to tank, does it not? Tanks can now use para gems and damage jewels also. So the current situation is not the same as in the past.
    Rogues can use para gems too cant they? Rogues get dmg stats and mana too dont they? Stop throwing a pity party for the most overpowered class in the game.

    My responses are in between your text. Enjoy

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    Quote Originally Posted by epicrrr View Post
    Thanks God for amellanos amellana haha.

    Say i have 143 dmg in town with singe in pvp i have 119 from what im seeing thats not just 10% debuff.

    Anyhow I gave up on this issue long ago whatever the case. What bothers me is why STS continues to give us pets with damage bonus, that shouldve been replaced long ago.
    A debuff always overrides the buff....The 12% from singe was overrided from the 10% debuff on pvp zones.

    for short ->> ~10% debuff + 12% buff ->> 22% total debuff

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