Solve PvP blocking problem

[G-M]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:

1. Blocking
   
   • Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.
     
   • Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.
   
   
2. Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.
   
3. Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?
   
4. Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?
   
5. Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?
   

Did I miss any? There are more changes like the ones listed by Axesam that I need to think on more because they involve larger changes to the core PvP game mechanics. Again thanks for the great thread everyone!

[Wazakesy]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:

1. Blocking
   
   • Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.
     
   • Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.
   
   
2. Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.
   
3. Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?
   
4. Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?
   
5. Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?
   

Did I miss any? There are more changes like the ones listed by Axesam that I need to think on more because they involve larger changes to the core PvP game mechanics. Again thanks for the great thread everyone!

Erm, i would like to suggest the kills replacement part, i would retract the statement and instead add this.

Create a new pvp zone based on rengol style and add the wins/loses

[Ladysophie]

Imo #2,3,4 might kill the fun.
#1A,5 are great ideas.

#6 Could be new types of pvp other than the famous ctf and tdm ( example: 1vs1 or last man standing)
#7 New pvp maps.

[Serancha]

The vote kick thing would definitely be abused. You don't have a ring - kick. You don't have sns or necro - kick, you have *gasp* legendary gear...get kicked out of every room. Totally uncool.

Timer in lobby I like.

Not sure what you mean about the "putting best gear on lower level toons" question. That would just put them in a legendary / mythic category at end game. Personally I'd gear down to do this, since pvp in arcane rooms is just not fun.

Rewarding wins instead of kills - that would be one thing, but removing the 5/10k flag ap's would be a large benefit also.

The biggest issue in ctf is that guilds take up entire rooms and do nothing but free flag. 8 people stand in the middle taking up space while 2 of the group flag. You go to ctf and get called all sorts of nasty things if you dare attack anyone. This has completely destroyed ctf.

I think if anything, the wins should replace flags, not kills. Give those with 5 and 10k flags a special exclusive vanity, but the ap is ridiculous.

[G-M]

Erm, i would like to suggest the kills replacement part, i would retract the statement and instead add this.

Create a new pvp zone based on rengol style and add the wins/loses

You're saying keep the current leaderboards as-is and introduce a new map/mode that only counts wins?

[Appeltjes]

If i were sts I would've started banning people ages ago...

Ss's of 3 lobbies in a row:

Only ililillil and me aren't that guild or allied to it.

Once xlearnx went out they got another block in (yes actually even spamming after having trouble winning 3v4).

Only inva and me aren't that guild or allied to it.
The exact same people as in the first ss but then in a diff lobby.

I believe what these people are doing means a bann in almost any other game...?

[Serancha]

This may be obvious to you, but to us they're just random pics of people in pvp. Are they free flagging or dummy farming?

Either way this is an example of why vote-kick would be bad.

[Appeltjes]

This may be obvious to you, but to us they're just random pics of people in pvp. Are they free flagging or dummy farming?

Related to the blocking issue, in any other game with pvp things like this will get you a bann.

[epicrrr]

Thanks for all the great posts everyone. I have to say it's so awesome to have such a great community of players who put a lot of thought and consideration into coming up with and sharing ideas to make our game better. Here's what I've got on this topic so far:

1. Blocking
   
   • Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.
     
   • Majority vote to kick. My concern with this one is that it could be used against players who aren't doing anything wrong but either aren't friends or don't have as good of gear or skill as their teammates. That's not fun.
   
   
2. Anonymous player names. This one is interesting. As others mentioned though part of the fun of PvP is playing on a team with friends and developing rivalries with other players. If all players were anonymous I fear it could remove a lot of the fun.
   
3. Remove chat. I like this idea to prevent griefing. It feels a bit heavy handed but I can't think of any other drawbacks off the top of my head. Is there any benefit to chat in PvP that I might be missing?
   
4. Gear Limits. Grouping players by gear (and probably level) sounds like a good idea. How do you think this would effect the players who like to put their best gear on their lower level characters?
   
5. Rewarding wins instead of kills. This is a great idea. Only concern would be the "instead" part. We could count wins in addition to kills. Do you think it would be overkill or unfair to remove the kills leaderboards entirely?
   

A timer is a good idea, though blocking is not just waiting on lobby. Just join the team and bypass the timer-kick.

Vote-kick like I have seen in so many games can easily be abused. Stay away from this one.

Anonymous player name - big NO.

Remove chat - Chat is coordination(blocking, sub, location of the enemy, spawning or not, pet usage, who-to-target, position of team rogs, response to randomg people, messages about your CS item). A chatless game/pvp is a dead game.

Items and level - People play time varries, and a given point of time not much is on if we group player by items and level then its going to be a long wait.

Wins over kills - A crucial aspect of the game isnt it too late to change this? why would STS remove kills when theres 100k+ on LB? Instead add a new category of WIN.

___

Blocking could've been easily solved when theres a preset of 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 rooms where we can do our clash "guild war". Only players of the same guild can join a team. Is this time-consuming to implement?

[Visiting]

A timer is a good idea, though blocking is not just waiting on lobby. Just join the team and bypass the timer-kick.

Vote-kick like I have seen in so many games can easily be abused. Stay away from this one.

Anonymous player name - big NO.

Remove chat - Chat is coordination(blocking, sub, location of the enemy, spawning or not, pet usage, who-to-target, position of team rogs, response to randomg people, messages about your CS item). A chatless game/pvp is a dead game.

Items and level - People play time varries, and a given point of time not much is on if we group player by items and level then its going to be a long wait.

Wins over kills - A crucial aspect of the game isnt it too late to change this? why would STS remove kills when theres 100k+ on LB? Instead add a new category of WIN.

___

Blocking could've been easily solved when theres a preset of 2v2 3v3 4v4 5v5 rooms where we can do our clash "guild war". Only players of the same guild can join a team. Is this time-consuming to implement?

With the Guild Clash thing, I'd rather have it custom games where you invite specific people to each team instead of having to be in the same guild to join, since not everyone is going to be in the same guilds^^

[Madnex]

Remove kills counter from CTF and the leaderboard as well, at the end of this season (just to save the work of the 2-3 people on it that haven't been dummy farming to stay on it like the rest).

Without kills to worry about, CTF will finally become about scoring flags. Adding two more flag base rooms in the same map would also be nice. And while we're at it, remove the AP from 10k flags, it's just there to prevent any newer players from ever catching up to the current LB spot holders that have farmed their flags five times faster/easier with the previous flagging system.

[epicrrr]

With the Guild Clash thing, I'd rather have it custom games where you invite specific people to each team instead of having to be in the same guild to join, since not everyone is going to be in the same guilds^^

Yeah custom room is good, I guess they could use the /partyinvite command to designate someone to be locked in you team- they probably can make a new NPC for this.

[Serancha]

Remove kills counter from CTF and the leaderboard as well, at the end of this season (just to save the work of the 2-3 people on it that haven't been dummy farming to stay on it like the rest).

Without kills to worry about, CTF will finally become about scoring flags. Adding two more flag base rooms in the same map would also be nice. And while we're at it, remove the AP from 10k flags, it's just there to prevent any newer players from ever catching up to the current LB spot holders that have farmed their flags five times faster/easier with the previous flagging system.

So make ctf totally about free flagging, even more than it already is? The problem isn't about people killing too much in ctf, it's about the bloody free flaggers that think they have a right to flag unhindered. Remove the flag ap's and make it about playing the game.

[Madnex]

So make ctf totally about free flagging, even more than it already is? The problem isn't about people killing too much in ctf, it's about the bloody free flaggers that think they have a right to flag unhindered. Remove the flag ap's and make it about playing the game.

That would not work. Who would bother playing if you remove both kills' and flags' counter? People need an incentive to play the map. When killing someone is no longer rewarding (which is logical, in a Capture The Flag game), scoring flags will be the only goal. So the "flagging no kill" excuse will not hold since the rest of the people in the room are there for the very same thing.

[Serancha]

,

That would not work. Who would bother playing if you remove both kills' and flags' counter? People need an incentive to play the map. When killing someone is no longer rewarding (which is logical, in a Capture The Flag game), scoring flags will be the only goal. So the "flagging no kill" excuse will not hold since the rest of the people in the room are there for the very same thing.

I meant keep the kills counter and replace flag count with games won. Then it would still be pvp, not just free flag fest.

I fail to see how taking away kills would fix the problem of nobody being allowed to kill anyone in ctf because it's become all about those ridiculous aps. All it would do is move dummy farmers to tdm.

Edit: Is there a way to do a trial run - like maybe 3 weeks - of pvp without chat capabilities? It would help with both the team stacking and 'calling people in to block' issues. Sure they could use alts outside the game, but at least it would cut down on the issues.

[twoxc]

Yea I agree.

Just remove Flag AP and Replace it with Game Win Count with no AP. People will kill and fight to flag to win because now it serve a purpose and everyone wanna win and of course that positive KDWR=Kill-Death-Win-Ratio for guild leaderboard.

[Excuses]

[LIST=1][*]Blocking
[LIST][*]Put a timer in the lobby and kick players who don't select a team after some amount of time. This sounds like a good idea and I don't see any obvious drawbacks. This still wouldn't prevent blocking by taking up a slot on a team.

I want to mention a couple of things about this.
I like to stay in lobby in some situations.
1. When there are more than 2 blocks on other side. It's gang for me.
2. When my team's Blocker is high lvl. It's suicide.
3. Most importantly, because I don't want to block and waiting to join my team with a hope of opening spot there.

If staying lobby will kick me, I will have to literally block. Then I will have to maybe stay death. Same blocking. This will not change anything. People can use dummy to do this too.

Either you should change whole system of pvp, or need vote kick for blocking.



Some people will not like Guild pvp room because some guilds have many allies or they are in pve focused guild.

I rather want to see limit of same class on one side.
5 tanks or more than 3 mages are annoying at some lvl. This should be limited by 2 or at least 3. (2 for tdm maybe.)


I deeply appreciate for looking at this again. Pvp need some change for blockers.

[Wazakesy]

You're saying keep the current leaderboards as-is and introduce a new map/mode that only counts wins?

yes, if the K/D was replaced, i wouldnt want to see players loose their kills they had earned over time...

also....the -25% debuff from axe throw is a bit high in pvp.

[Axesam]

Yea I agree.

Just remove Flag AP and Replace it with Game Win Count with no AP. People will kill and fight to flag to win because now it serve a purpose and everyone wanna win and of course that positive KDWR=Kill-Death-Win-Ratio for guild leaderboard.

With flag system atm (2 flag) its possible for both team hold flag at the same time. Problem is when your opponent hold flag and drop it (out room suicide) in hidden place (in the corner of spawn area for example), or some newbie hold flag and just walking around tryin to score it, imagine how stressfull we r tryin to find our flag, touch n return itso we can score and win while your enemy keep attacking u bcoz u hold their flag.

My idea is solid, just make flag randomly appear like crystal vortex in arena.

[Serancha]

I want to mention a couple of things about this.
I like to stay in lobby in some situations.
1. When there are more than 2 blocks on other side. It's gang for me.
2. When my team's Blocker is high lvl. It's suicide.
3. Most importantly, because I don't want to block and waiting to join my team with a hope of opening spot there.

If staying lobby will kick me, I will have to literally block. Then I will have to maybe stay death. Same blocking. This will not change anything. People can use dummy to do this too.

Either you should change whole system of pvp, or need vote kick for blocking.



Some people will not like Guild pvp room because some guilds have many allies or they are in pve focused guild.

I rather want to see limit of same class on one side.
5 tanks or more than 3 mages are annoying at some lvl. This should be limited by 2 or at least 3. (2 for tdm maybe.)


I deeply appreciate for looking at this again. Pvp need some change for blockers.

I don't get this. Staying in the lobby is blocking, period. If you see people in the room that would gang you, or that the room has blocks in it, leave and find another game. It's pretty simple.