I think Sorcerers Are Useless in PvE...

[Fredystern]

We mage could run nearly all elite with 4mage in party, of course the mage need to know when and where to use clock, and shield, well maybe it will slower but we have time to chat cause the clock root the enemies except for boss '-' so dont take care of us easily or you will regret it someday

[extrapayah]

with equal gear, damage from an non-critical charged aimed shot is around 3x of charged fireball damage (pardon my nab gears), and aimed shot has half of the cooldown of fireball, meaning when fighting a single enemy, aimed shot has 6x more effective dps than a fireball, only when continuously facing 6 mobs fireball has equal effective dps to aimed shot.

anyway, with dragon staff, you will want to use the staff to proc, especially when fighting boss.

damage output of tank has been more than mages since last season, it makes me wonder how vaas dominated timed lb last season, i guess a mage successfully outsmarted all tanks last season :P

[Zeus]

You keep bringing this timed runs logic. This game isn't timed runs. 90% of endgamers - and that's a conservative number - don't even care about timed runs. Do that experiment I suggested. Find a couple random, average geared people, and run with them. On top of everything else, you will make them happy. Woo I ran with Zeus yay yah woohoo.

It isn't timed run, but look at it like this: if there's a 22 second difference in timed runs, then what's the real world time difference of a Mage versus 1 tank 3 rogues?

[Oezheasate]

with equal gear, damage from an non-critical charged aimed shot is around 3x of charged fireball damage (pardon my nab gears), and aimed shot has half of the cooldown of fireball, meaning when fighting a single enemy, aimed shot has 6x more effective dps than a fireball, only when continuously facing 6 mobs fireball has equal effective dps to aimed shot.

anyway, with dragon staff, you will want to use the staff to proc, especially when fighting boss.

damage output of tank has been more than mages since last season, it makes me wonder how vaas dominated timed lb last season, i guess a mage successfully outsmarted all tanks last season :P

Vaas actually was very good at pulling together the mobs, incredibly precise clock stun and root work and knew how to make the most out of staff at boss, we did 3:03 in t2 while he still missed a lot jewel wise, he was running around with 4.7k health.

[Tatman]

It isn't timed run, but look at it like this: if there's a 22 second difference in timed runs, then what's the real world time difference of a Mage versus 1 tank 3 rogues?

I don't know, that's why I suggested the real world experiment. And honestly, most people (me included) don't care about 22 seconds slower as long as it's safer and more efficient.

[Untung]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class!

Agree with this

[xRyuzanki]

It's the beginning of the season and the beginning release of level 61 based elites. These are the times when tanks are wanted the most and this always happens beginning of elite releases. By end of season it'll be 4 rogues or blends of classes. Who knows? Maybe the 56 end of season gear will be so good that mages will be able to use 4 attack skills for timed runs and that would probably make the difference.

I use 4 attack skills cause you know if a player really want a fast run in elite/normal Maps they can do that since POTS are not limited to use.

[extrapayah]

I agree on it warr hitting so much aoe with aegis, almost doubling a mage, mage kinda losing its pt supportive aspects on elites as well as dmg, all you need for this new maps 3 rogue, 1 warr and proc your dagger for stun aoe, sns pools GG

I do not agree on kill order, this doesnt apply on reasoanble economic farming, unless you are willing to make ankhfest, all you do in this map proc stun all the mobs consistently until they die from aoe, sns banish pool dmg etc. Then you clear the mages. they only make 1 ball each per mage 1 green 1 red it doesnt heal all mobs like in rengol just focusing to 1. This applies if you wanna run economicly not timed challenge. Personally i dont find feasable to spend 20 ankh per map for farming crappy weapons.

Sorry to say warriors but in this pve perspective especially on underhul maps warr needs to do less dmg more tanking with better taunts. I have never seen an mmo that a tank does the most damage of all ruling pvp pve both. Lol

interesting theory on kill order , but if team focusing attacks on ranged enemies (orc healer and green gnomes) enemies will naturally grouped together, making it easy for us to proc dagger/bites, and yeah more effective tanking, probably a reduced juggernaut cooldown, and immunity to dot (immunity to dot will indirectly nerf second wind upgrade though), and increased base armor, strong enough to differentiate tank and non-tank, to survive underhul instant kill that might happen if rogues failed to proc, these defensive buffs are needed, especially if the recent pvp global nerfs are going to be implemented

[Midievalmodel]

I agree on it warr hitting so much aoe with aegis, almost doubling a mage, mage kinda losing its pt supportive aspects on elites as well as dmg, all you need for this new maps 3 rogue, 1 warr and proc your dagger for stun aoe, sns pools GG

I do not agree on kill order, this doesnt apply on reasoanble economic farming, unless you are willing to make ankhfest, all you do in this map proc stun all the mobs consistently until they die from aoe, sns banish pool dmg etc. Then you clear the mages. they only make 1 ball each per mage 1 green 1 red it doesnt heal all mobs like in rengol just focusing to 1. This applies if you wanna run economicly not timed challenge. Personally i dont find feasable to spend 20 ankh per map for farming crappy weapons.

Sorry to say warriors but in this pve perspective especially on underhul maps warr needs to do less dmg more tanking with better taunts. I have never seen an mmo that a tank does the most damage of all ruling pvp pve both. Lol

This is all I ask of the stg developers is to please fix the core of warrior skills and effectiveness. You have tried to fix warriors by giving us OP weapons like aegis and arcane sword but that did not fix the broken mechanics of the warrior. The only problem it solved temporarily was making warriors useful again in PVE (I stress the word temporary) but it also caused imbalance in PVE making warriors put out more aoe damage than mages. So once aegis and arcane sword becomes outdated what happens to warriors? We become ignored in PVE again like the pre-aegis days? Because from what I've seen is stg has already started the weapon nerfing process to warriors. If you don't believe me look at warrior new mythic maul weapons, they do signficantly less skill damage than the old 46 mythic glintstone maul weapon (I call this purposeful regression of weapon/items). STG if this is your way of nerfing us because u gave use such op weapons like aegis and arcane sword, well everything is gonna crumble for the warriors once aegis and arcane sword becomes obsolete.

[aneshsinghblu]

I'm not asking for warrior nerf, I love the fact that they can run timed runs now, however, I do think that sorcerers shouldn't be excluded from timed runs either. The most efficient run would also be the fastest run for you then: take a look at pure LB maps. It's 2 tanks, 1 rogue or 2 tanks, 2 rogue.

" The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not."

sounded like you were not happy with the aegis and wanted a nerf

[extrapayah]

This is all I ask of the stg developers is to please fix the core of warrior skills and effectiveness. You have tried to fix warriors by giving us OP weapons like aegis and arcane sword but that did not fix the broken mechanics of the warrior. The only problem it solved temporarily was making warriors useful again in PVE (I stress the word temporary) but it also caused imbalance in PVE making warriors put out more aoe damage than mages. So once aegis and arcane sword becomes outdated what happens to warriors? We become ignored in PVE again like the pre-aegis days? Because from what I've seen is stg has already started the weapon nerfing process to warriors. If you don't believe me look at warrior new mythic maul weapons, they do signficantly less skill damage than the old 46 mythic glintstone maul weapon (I call this purposeful regression of weapon/items). STG if this is your way of nerfing us because u gave use such op weapons like aegis and arcane sword, well everything is gonna crumble for the warriors once aegis and arcane sword becomes obsolete.

couldn't agree more...

[Safiras]

" The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not."

sounded like you were not happy with the aegis and wanted a nerf

I don't believe that was his intention, I do believe that as a result of the design of the Elites and the proc of the Aegis, the sorceror's role in a PvE party has become somewhat diminished (not redundant, because not many warriors know how to fully utilize the potential of the Aegis or are still using exclusively the arcane sword in PvE). That said, the point remains that it is a WEAPON PROC that has caused the imbalance, rather than the characteristic of the class per se (see also the arcane sword and the impact of itc proc in PvP). This was very nicely pointed out by Midievalmodel in his post. I guess Aegis will persist for a while because of the lack of a better alternative currently. But perhaps we will see better prospects for sorcerors in future updates, with new gear and weapons.

[Bmwmsix]

Guys guys please its not aegis nor the warrior...he is fine right now aswell rogues.

While the mage is OK for most, sts could indeed remove mobcap from aoe skills and increase crit on gear...since lvl 41 cap the crit rate on gear was reduced enormously....now is the time to show some love towards those feetless hectic moving smurfs.

[Motherless_Child]

The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)

Warriors and rogues always gets buffs/debuffs because no one ever mentions anything about mages, I too have noticed this......... I'm glad the OP did this because STS needs to begin putting some attention into the mage class.... Seems like warriors and rogues are excelling and mages are becoming like, "whatever".... There ARE some good mages out there but, they are harder to bump into these days (before, it was harder to bump into good warriors) when running maps whereas, the majority of DECENT runs these days always seem to be highlighted by good rogues and warriors (when i'm running maps)... NOTE: I'm speaking about the time period that spans back the the RECENT string of adjustments/buffs/nerfs to the game and classes and it's mainly because the adjustments and buffs are all mainly being put into the rogue and warrior class....

I'm gonna need to ponder on this some more before deeply elaborating on this topic but, it's time the mages get some love, too..............

Oh, and timed runs.... I've tried to do it a couple times but, it seems the mage's inability to dominantly control mobs like warriors and the mage's inability to match the insane CRIT from rogue (rogues have HIGh damage these days, insane crit Procs (with aimed shot + deadly focus upgrade you can get up to an additional +%30crit)(and this doesn't even count any additional crit AA boosts) makes the feat quite challenging (I mean, i've seen some SOLO timed leaders, and none of those players are mages)...... I know some people don't care about timed runs but, it IS something that can keep you busy in-between and can allow players to challenge your time and you challenge thiers. Running through non timed runs faster would even be beneficial, for farming and elixir (luck) purposes... The quicker you get in and out, the more runs you can do, and you also preserve elixir time better rather than let it burn.......

[Kriticality]

Guys guys please its not aegis nor the warrior...he is fine right now aswell rogues.

While the mage is OK for most, sts could indeed remove mobcap from aoe skills and increase crit on gear...since lvl 41 cap the crit rate on gear was reduced enormously....now is the time to show some love towards those feetless hectic moving smurfs.

The crit doesn't matter that much. Most geared mages will crit between 1/2 and 1/3 of the time and that's per tick of dot. That's the difference between 50% crit and 33% crit. It is aegis. As I stated in my post no combination of gear for the lowest damage class should be able to out put anywhere close to me at 1500 damage.

Vaas maybe good but this has no bearing on this thread. I had records in half the maps I attempted last season and ALL those times on nordr are ~25 seconds faster than record last season. They are running ~30% faster without a Mage. Or should I say with a tank.

Mages need something that they are best at. Not mana. What is the point of me running around with 1500 damage? My pm all day filled with people asking about damage. I tell them don't worry. It's for show. It's useless. Just buy magma and aegis and spend 300k on tank gear and can easily out put more damage.

Increase the dot ticks and adjust the formula in PVE ONLY. Increase the int factor in the formula. Mages should be melting mob groups significantly faster than anyone else can over time. I believe it should be as significant as the single target damage between rogue and mage. Even though I have 1500 damage and they slaying boss in fraction of the time that a Mage group can. Well Mage should have the same for mobs. Then let tank keep their broken set and weapons that they've been able to rely on in different areas of the game for months now.

[Motherless_Child]

The crit doesn't matter that much. Most geared mages will crit between 1/2 and 1/3 of the time and that's per tick of dot. That's the difference between 50% crit and 33% crit. It is aegis. As I stated in my post no combination of gear for the lowest damage class should be able to out put anywhere close to me at 1500 damage.

Vaas maybe good but this has no bearing on this thread. I had records in half the maps I attempted last season and ALL those times on nordr are ~25 seconds faster than record last season. They are running ~30% faster without a Mage. Or should I say with a tank.

Mages need something that they are best at. Not mana. What is the point of me running around with 1500 damage? My pm all day filled with people asking about damage. I tell them don't worry. It's for show. It's useless. Just buy magma and aegis and spend 300k on tank gear and can easily out put more damage.

Increase the dot ticks and adjust the formula in PVE ONLY. Increase the int factor in the formula. Mages should be melting mob groups significantly faster than anyone else can over time. I believe it should be as significant as the single target damage between rogue and mage. Even though I have 1500 damage and they slaying boss in fraction of the time that a Mage group can. Well Mage should have the same for mobs. Then let tank keep their broken set and weapons that they've been able to rely on in different areas of the game for months now.

Yeah.... Funny thing is, the new sets (with all pieces equipped) gives mages +700 mana bonus (let rogues and warriors get that, substitute it for something else when it comes to mages), which is utterly useless for endgame mages.... I also do not like the fireball MASTERY, it says that it reduces MANA cost for mage, ridiculous (that's why I did not even think about getting it).... I'd rather see the DISTANCE for the fireball increased (would be especially helpful against those darn underhaul beetles).....

[Zeus]

Thats the most objective opinion i have ever seen from warrior.

and yes unless there will be radical changes on core skills it may go back to old times. A tank should hold aggro constantly, at boss also. and a geared one shouldnt die on mobs or boss and able to protect pt. just like other mmo's.

Right now- im not joking- 4 rogue can run entire elite map 1 without using pot. All they have to do is charge dagger and spam it. All the way to boss, even boss gets stun from proc. Time wise is it fastest? No but economic from proc. I want this gone as rogue, but in return i want a tank that able to protect pt and we dont have ankhfest.

about 51 weapons yes its still lame imo. For rogue legendary 56 one gives 40 more damage at least comparing to 51 mythic. And proc is seriously hurting than giving advantage. You simply cant exchange dagger proc to that flame forged. same goes for warrior weapon.

You cannot do 4 rogues for new elites...

[Kriticality]

Hey devs if you listening and can see this. WE DONT NEED MANA!! Haha

8550!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zeus]

You can. pulling guy is gonna die tho especially on beetles. but for sure its better to run with 1 warr at least.
My point there with proc, doesnt matter which mob what mob how many mob they just die without doing damage

I mean if you ankh it out it's not very efficient, is it? So, defeats the point of 4 rogues. It's not better so there's no point.

[xRyuzanki]

You can. pulling guy is gonna die tho especially on beetles. but for sure its better to run with 1 warr at least.
My point there with proc, doesnt matter which mob what mob how many mob they just die without doing damage

It's hard and It will take a lot of your ankhs and time since even though nekro's AA can resist stun , you will take a lot of damage when you pull them and also it is not easy to proc the arcane blades since it only indicates 'chance to proc', also considering the immunity of monsters in elite .For a not so well geared player here , it's hard to run in solo elite maps . Im only asking stg to make Mages skills / weapons more aoe than any class since it's skills are destined for mobbing