Then why not go with Energizeric's suggestion of diminishing return of heal? Tanks have the same thing because their heal applies to group.Quote:
Originally Posted by ( DAMAGE )
Then why not go with Energizeric's suggestion of diminishing return of heal? Tanks have the same thing because their heal applies to group.Quote:
Originally Posted by ( DAMAGE )
His idea was really good but I think that the diminishing effect should only apply to the team not the casterQuote:
Originally Posted by Zeus
while there was all those tests StS was doing neither they nerfed mage shield nor warrior juggernaut, and each class was looking even in statistics, so why change it now? Why do you want to play with game balance again? The game PvP was never more balanced at this very moment. And btw you're forgetting that mages CAN die using fully upgraded shield, warriors CAN'T die using fully upgraded juggernaut!Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
Having spent the last few weeks in pvp as a close to max Mage (1 para, no eyes though, few Superb, Nobles and 1 exquisite jewel) the Blood Beach TDM matches seem pretty even. Sure, vs undergeared teams it's a wipe, but teamwork takes over during equally geared matches.
As Imbaaack said before, Rogues with speed set are nearly unkillable. I've seen plenty of rogues die quickly and plenty survive. Usually because they play well or there is good teamwork. No different for mages.
Wars are doing fine, and those with the Glint set plus Arc sword, even better.
The matches have been entertaining, especially when I'm on a class balanced team. That said, the second my shield goes down, I'm easy fodder for any rogue to pick off (or War to pull). So I have to be careful during that time.
Based on what I've seen, this proposal to nerf shield and Jug will put both classes at the mercy of Rogues. No doubt in my mind.
My .02
IGN: Cryformana, Drizzitty
What is so hard for the mage community to understand?
Everyone is doing 50% less damage in PvP now. Yet the arcane shield STILL ABSORBS THE SAME AMOUNT OF DAMAGE IT ABSORBED BEFORE THE CHANGE, WHICH MEANS IT WAS ESSENTIALLY BUFFED BY THE CHANGE AND NOW ABSORBS 2X MORE DAMAGE THAN IT SHOULD.
VROOM HAS POINTED THIS OUT.
A unintended 'somewhat bug' benefitting a class (regardless of how) (just like the wildfire proc) is nevertheless subject to fixing.
From this point i'll be treating the fact that the arcane shield absorbs 2x more damage than it should as a BUG that needs fixing.
This has now become a request for a bug fix.
A bug the developers themselves discovered.
DUDE WHAT CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND
While they were doing those tests with damage nerfs in pvp jugg and arcane shield stayed absolutely same, and all classes were even said by STS, so why tf you gotta cry and bring in the imbalance again?
The developers figured this one out mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrazicak
I should mention, I was prepared for all the insults and attempts at getting this thread locked due to drama from members of the mage community.
I am so tired to fight for equal and fair pvp experience for boths sides in forums. This is not my job, this is the developer team's job, they should be aware of the issues and act acordingly
cleaerly as almost Every single rogue and some of the mages and warriors agree on the "dps" class rogue is currently useless in pvp, period.
believe it or not, I'm a warrior, my mage is retiredQuote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
I'm not supporting any class I'm just pointing at the freaken logic right here
And I'm pointing at a bug :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrazicak
Sadly, this fix may hurt the mage class but they will learn to get over it and develop new strategies.
Haven't warriors and rogues learnt to get over such?
*Rogue armor nerf
*Rogue damage nerf
*Rogue combat medic nerf
*Rogue aimed shot nerf
*Warriors elondrian bulwark nerf
*Warriors lvl 46 arcane sword nerf
*Warriors gear progression
Regarding these as 'bugs that were fixed' further supports me btw.
TBH nobody wants balance. Everyone wants to kill other class very easily.
And this global Nerf thing was about only damage and health regeneration as far as I know.
If you guys want to Nerf arcane shield by 50% then Nerf everything by 50% why exclude crit dodge health and other stats too. Don't forget about nekro damage reduction too plz.
Make it twink legends.
Keeping damage reduction untouched while nerfing damage by 50%.Quote:
Originally Posted by yubaraj
You're joking right?
Doesn't the 50% dmg reduction for mage sheild halve all damage? Seems prety balanced to me since the developers said they were only halving health and damage.
For example if you get hit by 1k dmg when you had a sheild up, you would take 500 dmg (b4 pvp nerf)
So now if you get hit with 1k dmg its now 500 due to nerf and then 50% reduction from sheild gives it 250 dmg taken.
It seems like sheild is doing what is supposed to, why not buff rogues instead?
Is this correct or am i missing something here?
Any class with speed set is hard to kill. If you hit a speed set rogue, he will die. If you hit a speed set sorcerer, he will die. However, in the times you don't, they are hard to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otahaanak
If only rogues had speed set, Imbaaaack's statement would make sense. However, this is not the case. All classes have speed set and all of them are deadly when they use it.
That still doesn't render the fact rogues do not have a place in team based PvP if warrior and sorcerer stacks are present invalid. Also, sorcerers have built in speed debuffs in their skills that render a speed set rogue useless. You land that one skill and a speed set rogue is suddenly pure food. The same goes with any other class.
In fact, I would argue that a speed set sorcerer is more deadly than a speed set rogue. The reason being it is impossible to speed debuff a sorcerer with shield. So, a sorcerer can debuff other's speed set and render it useless with skills like ice whilst still keeping the speed themselves.
Damage reduction should be reduced alongside damage. Its only logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaheuzihar
Then I think your jugg should also be reverted back to what it wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
The reason 7/21 proposed change were shelved is very simple: the idea of nerfing creates a massive backlash and significant player anger. Nerfing should be a last resort, not the first option. These particular proposed changes I strongly disagree with because they the benefit reduction is so severe. It also makes little sense because, after a few expansions, the damage reduction of shield/jugg would scale to almost nothing. It's very counter intuitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
If rogues had learned to get around their armor nerfs these threads wouldn't be happening weekly also as you stated half of those are fixes not nerfsQuote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
The juggernaut 'second wind' was never intended to be broken by anything when active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plqgue
What are you getting at?
Yes, just like the fix the developers highlighted to reduce arcane shields damage reduction by 50%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plqgue
I disagree, there is too much of a genuine explanation put forward by Vroom for shelving to be appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niixed
In what way? Enlighten me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niixed
You posted one actual nerf and six fixes to compare to actually nerfing an entire classQuote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
If you deem them fixes, I won't disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plqgue
They will be the same fixes as reducing the current arcane shields damage reduction by 50%.
How is that a fix ? Did any of your skills or rogues get Nerfed by 50% because of a global damage nerf?Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
All classes received the 50% damage and healing nerf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plqgue
Its only logical to reduce damage reduction by 50% when reducing damage by 50% or problems arise. Namely with classes without significant damage reduction. You have been active in all balance related threads, you should be able to put the pieces together now.
What exactly needs fixing? If you use aimed shot damage without any damage reduction taken into account you're looking at 10,000 damage on a crit. Then with all damage reduction taken into consideration, you're looking at approximately 2,250 damage. When the shield only absorbs around 4,000-5,000 damage, no wonder why it's breaking so easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
Rather than nerfing the other classes, you should be writing a thread on how devs can improve the faults of rogues because clearly they're the problem, not mages.
It seems like i can't understand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakingbadxx
If you take away a % of damage it has equal impact regardless of the actual damage being dealt then reduced, right?
Can you help me out here? I think im missing something here.
I'm not completely certain, but I doubt it's the percentage of the damage reduction that maybe should be addressed, but the total amount of damage that can be absorbed by the shield before it breaks (I'm just addressing Breakingbad's point here, not saying I agree with it). The damage reduction is not an issue to me, because it's a percentage value. The shield will absorb less damage per hit simply because we hit for less damage than before due to the global damage nerf. Does that sound logical?
Anyway, going by the original logic of the proposed nerf, if you propose that the damage reduction of mage shield be reduced by half at endgame the same way damage got reduced by half, why not then apply the same principle to the damage reduction of Juggernaut?
My interpretation of the global damage nerf, from playing through the testing period when all classes had their full damage in PvP, is that at full power all classes ESPECIALLY rogues deal too much damage for our damage reduction and absorption capabilities to handle. After the damage nerf PvP became slower and more tactical but rogues suffere more because our primary capability became handicapped and we did not have a good defensive skill to lean on like the other two classes. As a result mages handled the damage nerf better than rogues.
Back to the issue of nerfing mage shield. It is not a fair suggestion to push through a nerf of mage shield armor reduction because then tanks should get an equal nerf on their primary defensive skill (juggernaut). If you want the mage shield to breal faster, make juggernaut easier to break too. The same logic must apply across the board, like what you said
Thanks for that first paragraph. I couldn't seem to word it correctly. I don't see the problem with the arcane shield damage reduction because it is a percent and not a flat value. IMO, rogues need a small damage buff because as long as rogues don't break my shield i will utterly trash them with stuns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Safiras
Wow...I can see I was proven right...
Sts opens for business at 8:00 am CST ..I expect this thread to be locked shortly after that...
Well played ..*slow claps* ...
By the way, just making it clear (because I think I didn't in my previous post) that I am not in favor of the nerf to the mage shield damage reduction or to the Juggernaut skill (I was using it as an example of how the principle of nerfing skills as suggested by the OP should be applied across the board, and thus not just to mage shield).
The shield gives mages their relevance in PvP. Without that capability to absorb damage for a limited period of time they're just walking blue pinatas. What I want is for rogues to compete with both tanks and mages in a clash situation for equal importance and relevance, which is what is not the case currently because we die slightly too easily and do not pose currently enough of a threat to a team of jugged tanks and shielded mages. I am in favor of the devs' gradual and careful approach to buffing rogues till a more competitive situation is reached. A nerf to mage shield damage reduction of that magnitude would be too drastic and alter PvP balance to an unreasonable degree.
I have to put in my 2 cents because as someone who plays all classes sometimes i dont think dps class understand. That there is supposed to be a difference in the attributes each class have. Warriors are supposed to be hard to kill. Dps classes should die alot because they kill alot took me under 2 months to get 10k kills on rogue. Been at it 8-9 months now on tank and only have 4.5k. For those of u that are calling for jugg nerf lets remember that the cool down time of jugg is twice that of the shield. All u have to do is hit a tank when their skills are down and they die. stay away from proc run if u have to then nuke when skills are down. I kill lots of wars on my rogue because i know how to read their skills. Also with the heal debuff rogues can overpower the regen on heal. That mixed with warriors worst nightmare in pvp korruption basically nulls their main attributes. Without heal regen on jugg warriors die fast. 3 mages 3 korrs one set tank is pretty much impossible to beat unless like someone else said, u have the same set up. Rogues still have a place with kor present because they can pick off tanks like they are paper. Korruption sucks for rogues too cuz it will make u manaless pretty fast. the class that is least affected by kor is mage so maybe if they complain too much about shield debuff lets make a pet next event that nulls shield and aimed crit buff while ur in pool. Would be equivalent to what korruption does to wars. Or here is another one increase cd time of shield. Lol j/k i know that would be excessive but i hope u get my point to stop talking about war debuff that isnt the issue here haha.
The Korruption debuff on warrior Juggernaut heal has been fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Standingstill
Before the global nerf wasn't the damage like , example a rogue hit a mage with shield 1k but its reduced to lets say 450 since its 55% Reduce? Now its reduced by another 50 after the global nerf so its 225 which means that its a buff for mages no? Please correct me if im wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Plqgue
The developers have stated the rogue class will remain glass. I see no reason to invest my time there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyona
Read the post I borrowed from Vroom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oaheuzihar
Ok, let's put the class purpose cards on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Safiras
Mages were never intended to be semi-tanks with a lot more damage just as we warriors were never meant to be "semi-rogues with a lot more HP".
Making juggernaut easier to break once again defeats the purpose of a tank.
Mages aren't tanks. This needs to be made clear.