Crit vs damage

[Ratiomod]

The question is how much dam is 1% of crit is worth?

In theory:
every critical hit is 1.5times harder

So general formula is : average dmg=dmg+0.5*dmg*(Crit/100)
example for 1% crit at 700dmg: average dmg=700+0.5*700*1.01=703,5

So 1%crit is equal to 3.5dmg

That was theory.

Lets do some test runs:
I did elite lost mage mine.
I used two different sets:
1. icescale of brutality dmg703,6 crit 10,34 - equal to 740dmg
2. icescale of fatality dmg664,1 crit 17,04 - equal to 720,7dmg
results of runs = equal times, exact the same.

Conclusion: For mage applies: 6,7%crit = 39,5dmg or 1% crit=5,9dmg
done

[Devaux]

Interesting

[acewasabi]

do you think this is same for rogue?

[Caabatric]

The question is how much dam is 1% of crit is worth?

In theory:
every critical hit is 1.5times harder

So general formula is : average dmg=dmg+0.5*dmg*(Crit/100)
example for 1% crit at 700dmg: average dmg=700+0.5*700*1.01=703,5

So 1%crit is equal to 3.5dmg

That was theory.

Lets do some test runs:
I did elite lost mage mine.
I used two different sets:
1. icescale of brutality dmg703,6 crit 10,34 - equal to 740dmg
2. icescale of fatality dmg664,1 crit 17,04 - equal to 720,7dmg
results of runs = equal times, exact the same.

Conclusion: For mage applies: 6,7%crit = 39,5dmg or 1% crit=5,9dmg
done

How many times did u run the map with each set.
Runs can very easily vary depending on what u do in them. (pull more/pull less/get a higher end of damage on boss/charge different skills/pet damage)
The factors that control these runs will 100% be different each time u run. The closest u can get to exactly recreating a run is to macro it and not summon pet. This still can easily vary as damage skills will hit at different powers and the mobs wont attack the same way even if you take the exact same path.

[Ratiomod]

I did it 3times each. Times was consistent within 2secons difference. Same pulls every time and pull were killed in the same position. Same pet was used for both runs. I can tell you that by switchin yowie with blinky makes the run faster with 5-8 seconds.
Macro is not a good way to test it becase the toon will be in the same position on the map in given time regardless of mob existance.

[Ratiomod]

do you think this is same for rogue?

Impossible to answer. need to test.
Reason is the skills are very different. For example poisson from nox doesnt crit.

[Serancha]

To test effectively, you can't really use skills, since they have too many variables. However, you then lose much of the effectiveness, so any margins will be smaller.

It's best to also use a non-proc weapon.

Ideally you'd use the same gear - one with crit gems and one with grand glacials, to test this.

A sample size should be minimum 25 units per variable. So if you are using full runs, then you need to record times for at LEAST 25 runs with crit and 25 runs with dmg to do a proper test. I would do 25 with no skills and then 25 with skills in this case. Even then people will say it's based on chance, which is what crit really is. However, you'd at least have a base groundwork.

As for crits being 1.5x normal hit - that's highly debatable also. I've seen crits of 0 before.

I have always wanted to work this problem out also, but there's just too much variation on crit values and crit frequency for any definitive answer - especially on rogue or mages using aoe skills.

[Caabatric]

I did it 3times each. Times was consistent within 2secons difference. Same pulls every time and pull were killed in the same position. Same pet was used for both runs. I can tell you that by switchin yowie with blinky makes the run faster with 5-8 seconds.
Macro is not a good way to test it becase the toon will be in the same position on the map in given time regardless of mob existance.

Oh lol good point about the macro. (either way that was against tos)
Pet damage varies which and their passive and aa abilities vary as well which is why i said no pet. (armor debuff can proc once a run or 30 times a run)
Again truly impossible to do the EXACT same thing which is the only way to get the most accurate result.
As Serancha said skills have too many variables.

[mesalin]

lol caab ur nice
and yes if you test eq u need do all same mean same skills same pet

[Ratiomod]

I dont really see any variables in sorcerrer skills. All effects works 100% of time.
I had no armor debaff. Ice rifle.
When all 6 runs ends in 1min58secons its highly unlikely that any of next 6 will use 10 seconds more unless I do semething very differently.
If you think how many DOT is done during 2 minutes that it makes no sense to talk about some variations. It all will be averaged.Unless sts dont use true random.
I am agree that to use bigger crit difference could give more correct picture. Like zero crit and 40% crit. Unfortunately I dont have equipment for that yet.

[Caabatric]

I dont really see any variables in sorcerrer skills. All effects works 100% of time.
I had no armor debaff. Ice rifle.
When all 6 runs ends in 1min58secons its highly unlikely that any of next 6 will use 10 seconds more unless I do semething very differently.
If you think how many DOT is done during 2 minutes that it makes no sense to talk about some variations. It all will be averaged.Unless sts dont use true random.
I am agree that to use bigger crit difference could give more correct picture. Like zero crit and 40% crit. Unfortunately I dont have equipment for that yet.

when you look at your skills they give a range of dmg it can do...
the dot is random
your normal damage is random
who you attack is different every time meaning you can spend more time killing a hard mob with more skill or you can spend the smae amount of skills and clear all the weak mobs...

[extrapayah]

well, then the answer should damage over critical, because if you're right (and i'm also agree) that time needed to run using both set are pretty much equal, which imply same offensive potential for both,

but then, we have a problem of losing the strength in critical armor sets... -> same offense, less defense for critical set

more reason for sts to rethink how critical gears' attribute should be

as for me, i always think that at certain damage, critical will be more effective than adding more damage, but mostly that 'certain' damage can only be achieved if we have at least fullset of ordinary damage oriented gears (e.g. icescale brutality/potency/assault)... so all normal players should always go for damage, unfortunately critical is currently only privilege of over-geared ones...

[Ratiomod]

That is also something I was thinkig over. Armor of force vs armor of brutality. Both provides the same offensive power but armor of force gives much less hp. The armor of force should give more critical to compensate for lower surviveability at least.

[TheFallenBear]

Are You Talking About Passives? If Yes. Then Please Read. Damage Passive Doesn't Stack With Your Pets Damage WhereAs Crit Does.