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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: The ULTIMATE PvP Class Guide, ALL SPECS AND ALL CLASSES COVERED.

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    Member Distinct's Avatar
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    Default The ULTIMATE PvP Class Guide, ALL SPECS AND ALL CLASSES COVERED.

    Alright, first up, where does my PvP experience come from ?
    Do you remember WoW back in the day ? When Onyxia was the most sought after Guild Kill ? Before ZG and Blackwing Lair made it into the game ? When you had to PvP 10 hours per day, every week, just to rank up ? When every server had two or three rank 14s and those were the kings of PvP ? I was one of those Rank 14s.

    Hasjhmed on Burning Blade, Rank 14 Druid.
    Distinct on Nathrezim, Rank 11 Warrior.

    Not saying I'm good, just saying I've invested my fair ammount of time PvP'ing. (And by fair ammount, I mean hundreds upon hundreds of hours)

    If you've got any PvP experience at all, you'd know that every single stat and skill point makes a huge difference. That choosing between 2% Hit and 2% Dodge on a piece of equipment requires alot of thinking, and could mean the difference between life and death in MMORPG PvP.
    Straight up, gear and spec is just as important as skill, if not more, in most RPGs.

    I don't care how skilled you are, you're not beating me in greens when I'm carrying pinks. (Assuming same spec and class)

    Now then, over to what I learned.

    NOTE: Both my Archer and Enchantress are level 35, and have pretty much the best gear obtainable.
    P.S. I'll be using the term Mage instead of Enchantress, just because.

    First up: PvP with a pure INT Mage.
    No. Simply, no. With next to no range, and no survivability, this will not work. You will die, and there is nothing you can do about it. You will ONLY be close enough to AoE if your opponents are downright stupid. They know you are carrying a nuke, and they will not be letting you get close. You think Mana Shield will save you ? If by some miracle you activate Mana shield and manage to get close to the group, your dear mana will be drained due to mana shield, so when you eventually get there you'll be hitting them with a stick. In which case they'll laugh at you before they end you.
    The problem here is that INT does NOT increase your spell damage, making both other choices alot more viable.

    Second: PvP with pure DEX Mage carrying Pink Bayou Bow and Swamp Rats Croc Scale Leather. (The two best DEX pinks you can have)
    This time, it went alot better, but again, however, still not good. You've got range, and you've got nuking spells, however, you've got next to no survivability, since your Mana is so low that Mana shield is worthless.

    Third: PvP with pure STR Mage carrying Swampy Trident, purple shield, and Croc Scale plate.
    You know the term Juggernaut ? Well this is it. You got a fair ammount of health and armor, you will get to your targets, and you will blast them away with your AoE spells, and they will die.
    Downside ? Ohyes, if they split up, you're screwed.

    In my opinion: Enchantress is the weakest class in PvP. Actually, I'm gonna go ahead and state that as a fact.
    I dare you, ANY OF YOU, with ANY spec and ANY gear, challenge my Archer with your Enchantress.

    Archer time, booyah.

    I'm not gonna do anything about INT Archers, because let's face it, lol.
    Infact, as a STR Archer I found myself fairly ineffective.
    Really, a DEX Archer is your best bet.

    I went with a good all around build. All points into DEX, Focus, Blast Shot, Evasion, Avian Scream, Knockback Shot, Reduce Armor and Thorns.

    Archers are good in PvP good, but not the best. If you want a all around PvP/PvE char, go with the Archer. Good DPS, good survivability, and they look cool.
    But a good Warrior will be able to keep on your tail at all times, beckon will be the death of you.
    Just a FYI, even when you're stunned, YOU CAN CAST SPELLS AND ATTACK.
    I went up against a Warrior around 30 times, all times casting Evasion and Focus before engaging, and still ending up destroyed. This Warrior was special though, we'll circle back to that later.
    Just trust me when I say, Archers are good PvP wise, just not the best.

    Warriors... You cute fuzzy bears.
    I'm gonna start with a mindblower, by saying, that pure DEX Warriors, are better than pure DEX Archers.
    Granted, the difference is not huge, it's still there, and in favor of the Bowbear.
    Armor Buff and Evasion is better than Evasion alone. Rage is better than Focus. Stomp is better than Avian scream. Blast shot is however better than the slashes. Still, the Bowbear is at clear advantage.

    INT Warriors ? Again, who are we kidding ?

    Now, the true PvP Champion, the without a doubt king of the hill.
    Not a PURE STR Warrior, but enough STR to wear the top tier items, and the rest into DEX for hit, crit and DPS.
    Another mindblower ? NOT A 2H WARRIOR.
    When testing this, we went with a Warrior in Croc Scale Plate, Swampy Trident, Purple Shield that I cannot remember the name of, and a green cap.
    Said Warrior was slaughtering anything that came near.
    I was on Distincthood, which has the highest obtainable bow DPS currently, and I had a Bowbear next to me, and a pure Int Mage with Fire Pin and Voodoo Doll and Mamboza Robe. We were all three wailing on him for a good 30 Seconds, and he still did not go down. He then killed the Mage, the Bowbear, and then me. While still being alive. Now we tested this 3v1 a few times, and more often than not, he would be left standing, AGAINST THREE LEVEL 35 PINK EQUIPPED CHARACTERS.
    Evasion, Armor buff, Rage, Stomp and Beckon.
    His damage was not that insane, but he could take such a beating that we would all be mana less, with all skills on cooldown, and he would still be wailing on us.

    POINT BEING, IF YOU SEE A 35 WARRIOR WITH A 1H AND SHIELD, PRAY FOR A CLEAN AND MERCIFULL DEATH.

    As far as how the tests were conducted, Archer and Enchantress was done by me, DEX Warrior and STR Warrior was done by two different friends of mine that I played against several times and gathered their opinions. My Warrior is only level 31, so I figured conducting the tests with him would be pointless.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go ahead and powerlevel my Warrior, and then rip you all to shreds, before Justg and his Crew nerf those poor Bears, or buff those Birds and Girly Wizards.

    EDIT: ALL MY TESTS WERE CONDUCTED BEFORE THEY LOWERED PVP DAMAGE BY A SUBSTANTIAL AMMOUNT, WHILE MY TESTS MIGHT NOT BE AS ACCURATE NOW, MY MAIN POINT THAT WARRIOR > ARCHER > ENCHANTRESS STILL STANDS
    Last edited by Distinct; 05-26-2010 at 10:54 AM.
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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    Junior Member Swoe's Avatar
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    Nice guide. I've also had a lot of previous PvP experience, hitting rank 13 in WoW and playing on 2200+ arena teams. After playing for a little while on my enchantress (126 int, 75 dex), I am absolutely struggling. I thought I had the perfect mix of Mp/s (14) and crit (28) to be a heal throwin' shield poppin' AoE machine.

    But 2 hits from a bow or a single damage ability I am dead before my first attack even registers. Granted some of this is probably lag (Aussie here) it just feels like I don't even have a chance at the moment.

    Even if I get the jump on a warrior, I can go through a full rotation of Lightning, Ice Storm, Firestorm, Drain Life, only to have him slowly turn around and take me down with a beckon and a single hit.

    Enchantress and Archer survivability needs to be brought up to at least be comparable with a full dex bear. I understand that I'm always going to be easier to kill than a tank, but at the moment heal might let me live for another 0.9 seconds. I thought at least with putting all my points into dex after I hit 112 int, I'd be some sort of a "glass cannon" type build. But at the moment I feel like a glass pea shooter, and the only class I can take down with any kind of consistency are other enchantresses.

    Sorry to go on a bit of a tangent there, I guess what I'm getting is at is that you hit the nail absolutely on the head with how the classes play out at the moment.

    Swoe: Level 40 Enchantress
    Spit: Level 40 Archer
    Overpower: Level 30 Warrior

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    Guardian of Alterra RedRyder's Avatar
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    Pvp on this game is deffective and needs work. You guys are going way too in depth for an iPod game

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    Spacetime Studios Dev Justg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRyder View Post
    Pvp on this game is deffective and needs work. You guys are going way too in depth for an iPod game
    1) It has been out for all of 12 hours. Safe to say we'll be tweaking it.
    2) Distinct your efforts are MUCH appreciated and very helpful for our tweaks.

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    Member ziae's Avatar
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    lol no wonder suddenly i saw a swarm of warriors. but anyway, werent the devs testing out the PVP for quite awhile? felt like they should have probably notice it b4 we did..... since it was mentioned they were testing pvp 2 weeks ago?

    but yea, more tweaks
    Realm: Alterra [Join me in farming weekdays from 2100 (GMT+8) , 4 - 5 hrs ]
    Warrior Bear: Ziae (lvl 35)
    Xbow Archer: Yiae (lvl 35)
    Enchantress: Viae (lvl 30)

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    Pvp on this game is deffective and needs work. You guys are going way too in depth for an iPod game
    We're PvP'ers.

    We care only about winning.

    Ofcourse we're going to go in depth and know every single thing about the system, how it works, and how to best use it to our advantage.

    All MMORPGs contain alot of smack talkers, highly satisfying wiping the floor with them in a Arena.

    Infact, just to show you how going "in depth" will help me mop the floor with just about any character, I challenge you Redryder, to a 1v1.
    BUT WAIT, there's even a twist! You choose what character to battle you with.

    35 Archer, 35 Enchantress or 31 Warrior ?
    And just to make things a little interesting, if you win, you get 5000 Gold from me, while I want nothing from you if and when I win.

    No disrespect towards you, it's all in good fun, and it'll help me prove my point.
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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    Member Distinct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    1) It has been out for all of 12 hours. Safe to say we'll be tweaking it.
    2) Distinct your efforts are MUCH appreciated and very helpful for our tweaks.
    1: Like I said in another post a few minutes ago, when 1.1 came out, there were a few bugs. Then you and the rest of the team went on a patching spree, and within a day or two the game was bugfree and better than ever before.

    2: I was mostly doing it for me and other fellow PvP'ers, but it's great that you can use it to your advantage when ballancing the PvP system further.
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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    Guardian of Alterra RedRyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    1) It has been out for all of 12 hours. Safe to say we'll be tweaking it.
    2) Distinct your efforts are MUCH appreciated and very helpful for our tweaks.
    As it may not be the best I know you guys will change that.
    I have no doubt in you guys whatsover

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    can you elaborate on which spell skills you focused on putting points into for the enchantress on the seperate builds?
    it seems a mage has to go either dex or str to have any chance, but still isn't very good?
    thats a shame, INT mages should get more boost to their mana regen and INT should increase magic damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zonabi View Post
    can you elaborate on which spell skills you focused on putting points into for the enchantress on the seperate builds?
    it seems a mage has to go either dex or str to have any chance, but still isn't very good?
    thats a shame, INT mages should get more boost to their mana regen and INT should increase magic damage.
    It's pretty clear, to me atleast, that the Enchantress is currently the weakest link.
    Somehow though, I'm sure that'll change in the near feature.

    As far as the skills go, it's pretty basic for every class concidering there aren't that many skills yet.
    You go for the most vital, always, with any spec.

    For example, a PvP focused enchantress will spec into Firestorm, Freeze AND Ice Blast, Lightning and Heal, those are the 5 most crucial, then you have two more skills you can pick, one at 5 and one at 4.
    I took Resurrection and Mana Shield, but you could replace Resurrection with Drain Health for example.

    Warriors NEED Rage, Evasion, Beckon/Stomp (If you're Melee, you go with Beckon, if you're ranged, you go with Stomp) and so forth.
    Archers NEED Focus, Evasion, Blast SHot and so forth.

    It's really a no-brainer, what requires thinking are the last two skills, because they aren't as clearly needed as the rest.
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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    AWESOME info. I'm going back to my warrior for PvP.

    Steve
    ARCANE Level 41 Warrior, Level 41 Sorcerer
    Pocket Legends Level 75 Enchantress, Level 75 Warrior, Level 75 Archer,

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    Yes, warriors are kicking everyone else's butts right now. Well, I haven't tried after this patch that just went out yet, but last night my archer was getting owned over and over and over by warriors. Beckon + stomp = dead bird.

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    Forum Adept LordRaid's Avatar
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    If this is true....

    I love you for doing this so thoroughly.
    Vigor - Alterra

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    Forum Adept FriedSushi's Avatar
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    I think bow warriors are killing. once rage and iron blood are up, you kill everyone within that time limit, after thats done, you die pretty fast unless you can run away good enough.
    as of this update, warriors seem to be killing, because of burst damage using slash skills.
    By the way devs, please raise the damage to somewhere in between the release and now. leaning more on the release

    release :|<---------------------O--------------------------------------->now
    O- where it should be
    ...............
    Wetphart Level 41 Dex Bear

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    3v1 against a warrior and you still lost? Now this I don't understand. Were you guys sitting there auto-attacking and throwing no spells what so ever? You said you had a fully decked out Mage. Was he/she not buffing/debuffing and healing? You have to think about this. A team working together can pretty much slaughter anything that is alive. If each person is doing their job correctly and efficiently then you should have no problem killing people.

    Next... Mage being the weakest link? I have been currently using my bow-Mage for PvP and I haven't really been seeing this "weakness". You say that you have a full int Mage. Have you ever played PvP yourself with a dex Mage. If not, then how do you know it's weaknesses and strengths. If a person is skilled with any class, than they have as good of a chance of surviving as anyone. Yes, you have to take in the fact that a pure int Mage is going to be destroyed by a warrior 1v1. But you have to understand that the main point fir those kinds of builds are for healing and giving advantages to your teammates with buffs and what not. Of course there a small overpowerings, but nothing that is suprisingly overwhelming.
    Teamwork is one of the main skills in this PvP. If It wasn't supposed to involve teamwork, than they wouldn't have made it 3v3 and 5v5.

    Anyway, just putting what I think out there. Yes, I agree with some of the points you are making, but I also disagree with many of them.

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    Member pbfreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distinct View Post
    First up: PvP with a pure INT Mage.
    No. Simply, no. With next to no range, and no survivability, this will not work. You will die, and there is nothing you can do about it. You will ONLY be close enough to AoE if your opponents are downright stupid. They know you are carrying a nuke, and they will not be letting you get close. You think Mana Shield will save you ? If by some miracle you activate Mana shield and manage to get close to the group, your dear mana will be drained due to mana shield, so when you eventually get there you'll be hitting them with a stick. In which case they'll laugh at you before they end you.
    The problem here is that INT does NOT increase your spell damage, making both other choices alot more viable.
    I just say and spammed heal with 16 M/s and last only a few seconds each time today while PvPing.

    Sad, so very sad.
    .
    .

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    Senior Member Azrael's Avatar
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    Distinct. Alot of what you noted here is accurate, some of it is not.

    The Int mage with some dex or str is not as weak as you claim. 1v1 they are at a disadvantage, but if you do a pure nuke build, they can compete with archers. I respeced my mage with 111 int and 75 dex, with every damage spell (5 frostbite and 1 icstorm, 5 fire 5 lightning 5 drainlife) and did suprising well. with magic shield, drainlife and heal i was very hard to kill at times, and did solid damage. The debuff/buff/heal mages are support and greatly improve a party, but alone they dont do as well.

    My tests with 2h vs trident shield warrior were different than yours. Done properly they are nearly even, but the advantage is on the 2h warriors side. I did 6 fights with rannos. With 2h he won 3 and i won 2 with trident (the last one i got distracted by vent and he killed me, but i didnt could it cause i didn't use buffs for awhile). As for group combat, the shield warrior does much less burst damage than the 2h warrior, but has a very high survivability. The 2h warrior has less survivability, but enough to not die if a healer is in his group. However the 2h warrior does the best burst damage, along with bow archers when they throw out all their skills.

    Bowbears are very good, and overall better than archers, but the don't have as much burst damage due to their skills being melee.

    Edit: i have to edit to state this again. 2h bears are the last thing you want to face against a organized group, and are imho better than 1h. 1h bears dont have the burst damage to drop their enemies in the same way. They just last forever, but we just end up ignoring them and targeting the archers and Enchantressess
    Last edited by Azrael; 05-26-2010 at 02:36 AM.

    Ogrim-lvl 50-Ursan Alta-lvl 45-Enchantress Broke-lvl 45-Avian
    Venom Website: http://venom.forumn.net

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    New Member TERSIVS's Avatar
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    Yup, Bears rule.

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    Member Distinct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    Next... Mage being the weakest link? I have been currently using my bow-Mage for PvP and I haven't really been seeing this "weakness". You say that you have a full int Mage. Have you ever played PvP yourself with a dex Mage. If not, then how do you know it's weaknesses and strengths
    Lol.

    Have I ever played a DEX Mage ?
    Right NOW, as of this SECOND, my PURE DEX Mage is carrying Pink Bayou Bow and Swamp Rat's Croc Scale Leather.

    Oh, and if you don't think your Enchantress is the weakest ?
    Like I said in my original post, challenge my Archer.

    My Archer will destroy ANY Enchantress's on this server.
    Not because I'm good specced, nor good geared, nor even a good player, but because of class ballance issues.

    I did very detailed tests, and anyone who disagrees with anything that I stated as a fact, are welcome to prove me wrong.
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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    Member Distinct's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    Distinct. Alot of what you noted here is accurate, some of it is not.

    The Int mage with some dex or str is not as weak as you claim. 1v1 they are at a disadvantage, but if you do a pure nuke build, they can compete with archers. I respeced my mage with 111 int and 75 dex, with every damage spell (5 frostbite and 1 icstorm, 5 fire 5 lightning 5 drainlife) and did suprising well. with magic shield, drainlife and heal i was very hard to kill at times, and did solid damage. The debuff/buff/heal mages are support and greatly improve a party, but alone they dont do as well.
    I'm sorry, but I completely disagree.

    They will not stand a chance against an Archer, let alone be able to compete with them.

    Like I said, I did my tests well.
    And like I also said, ANYONE is free to challenge my Archer with your Enchantress.
    This includes you. I actually think it'd help me prove my point.

    Normal PvP has a Rock-Paper-Scissor thing going on.

    So far here we have:
    Warriors > Archers > Enchantress's
    Distincthood - 35 Archer
    Dodgethis - 35 Warrior
    Magica - 35 Enchantress

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