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  1. #201
    Guardian of Alterra Kalielle's Avatar
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    Well, where to start. Happy Birthday PL! Great to see the decorations and all the party hats. I'm sure many new players will be happy about the free dungeons and I'm glad for them; it was very generous to make them free and I'm certain people will appreciate it. Haven't had a chance to perform the new combos but I think they're an awesome idea as well.

    That being said, there are two things in this update that I am not so thrilled about.

    The first is the level requirement to enter dungeons. One my favorite things to do in PL ever since my main character reached the cap back in the days, is to take a low level character into a more difficult dungeon and see how well I can survive. In fact it's one of the few things left to do for fun at the endgame. I think many of the dungeons are much too easy every since the rebalance, but I won't complain about it because I understand that the game has to appeal to general audiences and new players. But for those of us who are hardcore or who have characters at the cap and are bored, it was fun to do things like try tanking AO2 on a level 25 bear (and yes it's quite doable), or get together a group of friends and farm swamps with a group of level 15s.

    Now players who find the game too easy, or who want to try a high level dungeon for challenge, or are leveling their second alts, will be stuck with a single dungeon choice whether they like that dungeon or not. I don't think taking away this much freedom and forcing people on a fixed path adds to the game.

    Also this system will break up new friendships as some players inevitably play more and will level faster than others. I remember when I was leveling my first character, I wasn't that hardcore about the game and the few friends I made were the main thing that kept me playing. I joined them in AO2 as soon as I unlocked it even though I was lower level than them. I wasn't trying to take the easy route and in fact I would also join friends in lower level dungeons and wouldn't even care if I wasn't getting XP - I just wanted to be with people I liked. It's already hard enough to form friendships in a casual game like this where typing can be difficult. This is going to make it even harder, separating fragile new friendships because players are a few levels apart and can't play together.

    I know a lot of you forum people are happy that this will take power leveling away. But have you actually looked around at what people are playing since quests were introduced? There's A LOT less grinding and power leveling. Most people seem to play all campaigns because they want to finish their quests. But for those who wanted to take a different path there was always another option there.

    Not everybody playing in a dungeon above their level is power leveling either. I've seen teams of level 30ish people do fine in AO2. Why not leave them that option if, much like me, they happen to like AO2 better than AO1 or swamps.

    ---

    Second thing I'm unhappy about: you guessed it, plat-only elixirs. First let me say I understand that developers have to make money and I fully support it. I just wish they would choose another way of doing it.

    Elixirs were the only thing left in the game into which to sink game money, other than potions, and the only "luxury" on which players could spend their hard-earned money to have some fun, or speed up a grind they particularly disliked. Now there's truly nothing to do with in game money, and nothing to suck money out of the economy. I predict inflation, much like we had massive inflation in AO2 when most farming didn't require pots, and there was no massive leveling grind to buy xp pots for, or 6k elixirs to waste money on.

    People don't just use elixirs to "cheat" or take shortcuts. It's a strategic choice that the game used to give you - choosing to pot to do a certain kind of farming run (and judging whether it's worth it based on the price of the item), or selecting one party member to pot a certain pot for a specific reason.

    Also, it's just fun to use elixirs sometimes - to have a full party pot double damage and blast through things, or to pot speed and feel like you're skating through a dungeon. In my groups it's become a tradition for some of us to pot trash for our last run. It just feels like a little party, spending all that in-game gold (drawing remarks like "wow, rich haha!!!") and then blasting through the dungeon and the boss, doing celebrate emotes all the way. Now I can't imagine it ever happening, and if it does it will just draw an awkward silence (what are we going to say, "wow you're clearly rich in real life"??). It used to be a mark of achievement and effort to have enough gold to be able to pot. Now being successful in the game suddenly means less, and we are reminded that what really matters is how much money one has in real life. Bad news for those who used the game as an escape for reality, and a place where they could be rich and successful and forget about their real life status and finances.


    I'm sorry post such negative thoughts on the PL anniversary, but I've always been honest with my feedback. I hope I managed to convey my reasons well instead of just ranting. I apologize for the very long post it took to do so.
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  2. #202
    Senior Member Moogerfooger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razerfingers View Post
    you guys are no help
    Maybe if you waited longer than 5 minutes for a possible answer, you would get an answer.

    Email the devs, they do not discuss bans/banned players/banned whatever publicly.
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    Junior Member nabidavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duped View Post
    I suppose I am in the .0001% then. I have never paid money to play an app game before, this was my first. I'm the head of my household not a child and self-employed businessman, and here's my thoughts on the matter.

    First off, I give kudos to the removal of powerleveling. I am very glad PL has enjoyed the success it has. Could the purchase of only XP pots cost plat?? The tank and damage pots are at times necessary due to the flighty nature of players in pick up games.

    As to the main spine of the game being free:
    So when you paid for something that is now free, it's not uncommon to feel like you..... at the least, made a poor investment.

    I believe that feeling could be lessened by a different form of gratitude (ie half the plat returned, or 3 free premium rings as our way of saying thanks)

    Yet that being said, I do agree the game was worth what I paid, even though however the shield of gratitude seems a poor repayment for those of us who don't pvp. I will not be quitting the game, but I am a little disappointed with it ATM.

    This also changes one dynamic of the game. When you were in Sewers, you knew that the players there had at least some measure of commitment to make it that far (they also used plat to get that far), now that is no longer the case. I have studied this game because I put actual money into it, so I wanted to get the most for my money. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

    Would you consider making Balefort Sewers still a plat only campaign? Would you consider allowing all pots minus xp to be purchasable by gold again?
    I don't mind the grinding without xp elixirs, I can see a fair case for that. I would certainly appreciate any thought you give to those suggestions.
    Duped, I hope you don't think I personally work for Spacetime Studios, because I don't.

    Also, don't get me wrong, I see your points. You make a good and thoughtful argument, especially about the feeling of community in the sewers. Just keep in mind, that it will be a looonnnngggg time before you have to worry about anyone joining you in the sewers who has not made an equal or similar investment as yourself.

    Ultimately, I don't feel cheated at all personally. I paid for a service that was rendered to me at a point in time. It was fair and square. I was happy. My happiness and enjoyment is not devalued because the same service is now free to others.

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    Senior Member Duped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nabidavid View Post
    Duped, I hope you don't think I personally work for Spacetime Studios, because I don't. Since this was your 5th post that thought hadn't crossed my mind

    Also, don't get me wrong, I see your points. You make a good and thoughtful argument, especially about the feeling of community in the sewers. Just keep in mind, that it will be a looonnnngggg time before you have to worry about anyone joining you in the sewers who has not made an equal or similar investment as yourself.Agreed

    Ultimately, I don't feel cheated at all personally. I paid for a service that was rendered to me at a point in time. It was fair and square. I was happy. My happiness and enjoyment is not devalued because the same service is now free to others.
    Sorry, double post
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    Senior Member Slush's Avatar
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    YES I GET TEH EPIC HATZZZ!!!!11!!!

    anyway, elixirs cost plat now? ((
    SLUSHIE - PROUD MEMBER OF REVELATION

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    Quote Originally Posted by nabidavid View Post
    Duped, I hope you don't think I personally work for Spacetime Studios, because I don't. Since this was your 5th post that thought hadn't crossed my mind

    Also, don't get me wrong, I see your points. You make a good and thoughtful argument, especially about the feeling of community in the sewers. Just keep in mind, that it will be a looonnnngggg time before you have to worry about anyone joining you in the sewers who has not made an equal or similar investment as yourself.Agreed

    Ultimately, I don't feel cheated at all personally. I paid for a service that was rendered to me at a point in time. It was fair and square. I was happy. My happiness and enjoyment is not devalued because the same service is now free to others.
    I don't feel cheated, just that purchasing the dungeons wasn't my smartest investment And if they considered a different form of gratitude, I would feel that less
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalielle View Post
    Well, where to start. Happy Birthday PL! Great to see the decorations and all the party hats. I'm sure many new players will be happy about the free dungeons and I'm glad for them; it was very generous to make them free and I'm certain people will appreciate it. Haven't had a chance to perform the new combos but I think they're an awesome idea as well.

    That being said, there are two things in this update that I am not so thrilled about.

    The first is the level requirement to enter dungeons. One my favorite things to do in PL ever since my main character reached the cap back in the days, is to take a low level character into a more difficult dungeon and see how well I can survive. In fact it's one of the few things left to do for fun at the endgame. I think many of the dungeons are much too easy every since the rebalance, but I won't complain about it because I understand that the game has to appeal to general audiences and new players. But for those of us who are hardcore or who have characters at the cap and are bored, it was fun to do things like try tanking AO2 on a level 25 bear (and yes it's quite doable), or get together a group of friends and farm swamps with a group of level 15s.

    Now players who find the game too easy, or who want to try a high level dungeon for challenge, or are leveling their second alts, will be stuck with a single dungeon choice whether they like that dungeon or not. I don't think taking away this much freedom and forcing people on a fixed path adds to the game.

    Also this system will break up new friendships as some players inevitably play more and will level faster than others. I remember when I was leveling my first character, I wasn't that hardcore about the game and the few friends I made were the main thing that kept me playing. I joined them in AO2 as soon as I unlocked it even though I was lower level than them. I wasn't trying to take the easy route and in fact I would also join friends in lower level dungeons and wouldn't even care if I wasn't getting XP - I just wanted to be with people I liked. It's already hard enough to form friendships in a casual game like this where typing can be difficult. This is going to make it even harder, separating fragile new friendships because players are a few levels apart and can't play together.

    I know a lot of you forum people are happy that this will take power leveling away. But have you actually looked around at what people are playing since quests were introduced? There's A LOT less grinding and power leveling. Most people seem to play all campaigns because they want to finish their quests. But for those who wanted to take a different path there was always another option there.

    Not everybody playing in a dungeon above their level is power leveling either. I've seen teams of level 30ish people do fine in AO2. Why not leave them that option if, much like me, they happen to like AO2 better than AO1 or swamps.

    ---

    Second thing I'm unhappy about: you guessed it, plat-only elixirs. First let me say I understand that developers have to make money and I fully support it. I just wish they would choose another way of doing it.

    Elixirs were the only thing left in the game into which to sink game money, other than potions, and the only "luxury" on which players could spend their hard-earned money to have some fun, or speed up a grind they particularly disliked. Now there's truly nothing to do with in game money, and nothing to suck money out of the economy. I predict inflation, much like we had massive inflation in AO2 when most farming didn't require pots, and there was no massive leveling grind to buy xp pots for, or 6k elixirs to waste money on.

    People don't just use elixirs to "cheat" or take shortcuts. It's a strategic choice that the game used to give you - choosing to pot to do a certain kind of farming run (and judging whether it's worth it based on the price of the item), or selecting one party member to pot a certain pot for a specific reason.

    Also, it's just fun to use elixirs sometimes - to have a full party pot double damage and blast through things, or to pot speed and feel like you're skating through a dungeon. In my groups it's become a tradition for some of us to pot trash for our last run. It just feels like a little party, spending all that in-game gold (drawing remarks like "wow, rich haha!!!") and then blasting through the dungeon and the boss, doing celebrate emotes all the way. Now I can't imagine it ever happening, and if it does it will just draw an awkward silence (what are we going to say, "wow you're clearly rich in real life"??). It used to be a mark of achievement and effort to have enough gold to be able to pot. Now being successful in the game suddenly means less, and we are reminded that what really matters is how much money one has in real life. Bad news for those who used the game as an escape for reality, and a place where they could be rich and successful and forget about their real life status and finances.


    I'm sorry post such negative thoughts on the PL anniversary, but I've always been honest with my feedback. I hope I managed to convey my reasons well instead of just ranting. I apologize for the very long post it took to do so.
    I couldn't have said it better myself concerning these two points.

    Also, related to the first part of her post, and like I mentioned earlier, you could have controlled for level requirements earlier by simply checking a box. Maybe it would be better to reduce the level requirements to 2 levels instead of 5 with a check?
    Last edited by XRAX; 04-18-2011 at 03:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moogerfooger View Post
    Maybe if you waited longer than 5 minutes for a possible answer, you would get an answer.

    Email the devs, they do not discuss bans/banned players/banned whatever publicly.
    i did thats why i asked you guys cause they didnt answer
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atlannie View Post
    Lets be honest here. 45 plat is the equivalent of what? $5 at the most? You pay around $30 a month for the data plan on your smartphone.
    Love. This. Post.

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    Speed and xp pots should cost gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by razerfingers View Post
    i did thats why i asked you guys cause they didnt answer
    And then you waited all of 5 whole minutes before complaining no one answered you. And since almost none of us here are banned in game, you might have to wait a while to get an answer. The end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalielle View Post
    The first is the level requirement to enter dungeons. One my favorite things to do in PL ever since my main character reached the cap back in the days, is to take a low level character into a more difficult dungeon and see how well I can survive. In fact it's one of the few things left to do for fun at the endgame. I think many of the dungeons are much too easy every since the rebalance, but I won't complain about it because I understand that the game has to appeal to general audiences and new players. But for those of us who are hardcore or who have characters at the cap and are bored, it was fun to do things like try tanking AO2 on a level 25 bear (and yes it's quite doable), or get together a group of friends and farm swamps with a group of level 15s.
    If you are truly doing this for the challenge, then it can still be done, although it won't 'look' that way. A level 40 bear that only uses 135 stat points, 25 skill points and sticks to gear level 25 and under is equivalent to a level 25 bear. I know you know this, but just reminding people that is can be done, even if it is not optimal. It will of course take longer to get your 'level 25' bear to 40, and would cost 4 plat for both respecs. And of course, there is no way to tell if the whole party is using 'level 25' requirements, so documenting the achievement would be tricky.

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    Ok so I might be a little late to the party (which btw went to the ‘fishing party’ in AO towne where nothing happened.. made me *sad face*)

    Anyways, to touch on the elixir for plat only issue. I think it is a great idea, it will increase revenue for you guys hands down. Especially since right now you guys really haven’t seen any cash flow from established players since BS came out. My concern is two fold.

    First for the individuals like myself… I purchase plat for 75 / 9.99 USD. Now I have two levels 55 and a lvl 51. My mage is about 50% to 56… to continue him without using pots will take an additional 2months of playing time (I only average 2 hours a night).

    40k XP to 56
    100XP / 6minute run (assuming PUGs) X 20 runs (to get to my 2 hour average) is about 2k XP per day..
    So 20 runs x 20 days is ~400 runs to 56

    so I am looking at 20 days if I only dedicate to my mage. This doesn’t take into account of time to play around or use an Alt. This is nose to the grindstone calculations…

    So the alternative? Buy the Waters for 12plat. As stated above I buy plat with 75 increments. So I get 6 runs for every 10 dollars I spend. If you guy by my calculations above you get something similar to this:

    With earning 3x the XP I will do my 400 runs and divide by 3 (rough calc I know)
    400/3=134 runs.. wish means 134/6 runs (my purchased plat limit) would equal 23. So I would need to buy $230 worth of plat (assuming the same 75/9.99) to get to 56 with ONE CHAR!
    Seems crazy to me…

    Second concern… Inflation on economy…
    While doing CTK, I earn between 2.5-3k per run. Previously this was going into my water/elixir fund. Now I will use all of this as bank. So I will be looking at 60k per day (from above 20 runs x 3k). So I will be looking at about 600k in gold that I normally would have earned. Just as the Federal reverse does to stimulate the economy, there will be a short term buying frenzy which will turn items that are currently priced at 700k-1m closer to 2-3mil. This is just from the CTK runs, not even thinking about doing the PP gold runs.

    I think revamp the cost of plat and or the cost of elixirs (doing something like 3plat for waters would slowly drain a plat balance vs a massive hit like 12). And come up with another way to keep a handle on the economy is needed. Even considering to hold off on the plat only elixirs until the 1.7.2 update, so you actually get bang for your buck with the plat usage.

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    Guardian of Alterra DawnInfinity's Avatar
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    When I first started playing PL, I didn't even know thatyou could pay gold for exp pots. I just counted about 60 plat spent on pots already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalielle View Post
    Well, where to start. Happy Birthday PL! Great to see the decorations and all the party hats. I'm sure many new players will be happy about the free dungeons and I'm glad for them; it was very generous to make them free and I'm certain people will appreciate it. Haven't had a chance to perform the new combos but I think they're an awesome idea as well.

    That being said, there are two things in this update that I am not so thrilled about.

    The first is the level requirement to enter dungeons. One my favorite things to do in PL ever since my main character reached the cap back in the days, is to take a low level character into a more difficult dungeon and see how well I can survive. In fact it's one of the few things left to do for fun at the endgame. I think many of the dungeons are much too easy every since the rebalance, but I won't complain about it because I understand that the game has to appeal to general audiences and new players. But for those of us who are hardcore or who have characters at the cap and are bored, it was fun to do things like try tanking AO2 on a level 25 bear (and yes it's quite doable), or get together a group of friends and farm swamps with a group of level 15s.

    Now players who find the game too easy, or who want to try a high level dungeon for challenge, or are leveling their second alts, will be stuck with a single dungeon choice whether they like that dungeon or not. I don't think taking away this much freedom and forcing people on a fixed path adds to the game.

    Also this system will break up new friendships as some players inevitably play more and will level faster than others. I remember when I was leveling my first character, I wasn't that hardcore about the game and the few friends I made were the main thing that kept me playing. I joined them in AO2 as soon as I unlocked it even though I was lower level than them. I wasn't trying to take the easy route and in fact I would also join friends in lower level dungeons and wouldn't even care if I wasn't getting XP - I just wanted to be with people I liked. It's already hard enough to form friendships in a casual game like this where typing can be difficult. This is going to make it even harder, separating fragile new friendships because players are a few levels apart and can't play together.

    I know a lot of you forum people are happy that this will take power leveling away. But have you actually looked around at what people are playing since quests were introduced? There's A LOT less grinding and power leveling. Most people seem to play all campaigns because they want to finish their quests. But for those who wanted to take a different path there was always another option there.

    Not everybody playing in a dungeon above their level is power leveling either. I've seen teams of level 30ish people do fine in AO2. Why not leave them that option if, much like me, they happen to like AO2 better than AO1 or swamps.

    ---

    Second thing I'm unhappy about: you guessed it, plat-only elixirs. First let me say I understand that developers have to make money and I fully support it. I just wish they would choose another way of doing it.

    Elixirs were the only thing left in the game into which to sink game money, other than potions, and the only "luxury" on which players could spend their hard-earned money to have some fun, or speed up a grind they particularly disliked. Now there's truly nothing to do with in game money, and nothing to suck money out of the economy. I predict inflation, much like we had massive inflation in AO2 when most farming didn't require pots, and there was no massive leveling grind to buy xp pots for, or 6k elixirs to waste money on.

    People don't just use elixirs to "cheat" or take shortcuts. It's a strategic choice that the game used to give you - choosing to pot to do a certain kind of farming run (and judging whether it's worth it based on the price of the item), or selecting one party member to pot a certain pot for a specific reason.

    Also, it's just fun to use elixirs sometimes - to have a full party pot double damage and blast through things, or to pot speed and feel like you're skating through a dungeon. In my groups it's become a tradition for some of us to pot trash for our last run. It just feels like a little party, spending all that in-game gold (drawing remarks like "wow, rich haha!!!") and then blasting through the dungeon and the boss, doing celebrate emotes all the way. Now I can't imagine it ever happening, and if it does it will just draw an awkward silence (what are we going to say, "wow you're clearly rich in real life"??). It used to be a mark of achievement and effort to have enough gold to be able to pot. Now being successful in the game suddenly means less, and we are reminded that what really matters is how much money one has in real life. Bad news for those who used the game as an escape for reality, and a place where they could be rich and successful and forget about their real life status and finances.


    I'm sorry post such negative thoughts on the PL anniversary, but I've always been honest with my feedback. I hope I managed to convey my reasons well instead of just ranting. I apologize for the very long post it took to do so.
    100% agree. What drew me into PL and made me take that first move to buy plat, was that I only needed to spend plat to unlock maps. This has been gradually changing (I saw it happening with Big Luck, but most people were in denial). Now, instead of paying for the ability to playthe game and the rest being based on your own time/commitment/skill, it all comes down to how much money you have and/or are willing to spend on a game.
    Since I, personally, cannot justify spending real money on virtual items, each update keeps pushing me further and further away. At least before, I felt that I made an investment in the game by buying all the maps which I can use as much as I want. But now even that feels like a bad investment.
    I was looking forward to B*, but if the same business model is implemented there, I will not put in much time. What Used to be so great about PL was that your time/effort/skill got you far, not your RL money. Sad to see this changing so drastically and so quickly.
    Last edited by Lesrider; 04-18-2011 at 03:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawnInfinity View Post
    When I first started playing PL, I didn't even know thatyou could pay gold for exp pots. I just counted about 60 plat spent on pots already.
    How's that possible? You started in June. Plat-for-elixirs has only been around for a few mos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moogerfooger View Post
    And then you waited all of 5 whole minutes before complaining no one answered you. And since almost none of us here are banned in game, you might have to wait a while to get an answer. The end.
    why do you have to be suck a jerk dude it was a simple question and i wasnt asking you for an answer i was asking to whoever knows the answer
     
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    Guardian of Alterra DawnInfinity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lesrider View Post
    How's that possible? You started in June. Plat-for-elixirs has only been around for a few mos.
    There was always an option to buy them with plat, maybe you didn't notice it
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    Quote Originally Posted by DawnInfinity View Post
    There was always an option to buy them with plat, maybe you didn't notice it
    Really? I distinctly remember how we were all surprised/annoyed when the "buy with plat" button appeared, and so close to the gold button -- causing many to buy with play by accident. I distinctly remember a time when there was no "buy with plat" button. Was it hidden somewhere?

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    the dumpster punch is 20p...

    20P!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    That. Is. AWESOME!!!

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