The Scam Debate.

[Zeus]

So, this is regarding Slushie and Laanehal, as Slushie was angry, so he didn't seem to have explained the situation very well, so I will do it for him. Please note, he did not ask me to do this. Keep everything you have to say about this respectful and courteous, please and thank you.

Laanehal approached Slushie and offered him a deal. He presented him a Custom Leather, stated that if Slushie taught him the secrets of PvP, he would give him the custom leather. Please note, if you PvP. Builds are a very delicate matter, it's not taken lightly to "steal" somebody's build. Slushie agreed, this creating a deal/contract, if you will. Slushie did teach him everything that he knew about PvP, then later when he asked for his payment. Laanehal removed him from his friends list and didn't pay him. This in a sense is a scam, because there was a dealthat they agreed upon. This is why Slushie made the thread. Laanehal saw the thread, when I confronted him about it in Balefort Castle, he had stated, people don't think I'm a scammer, so it's ok.

What does that mean? That implies he thinks it was OK to do that and may continue to do that in the future, I personally hate to see people get scammed and stealing of knowledge, without willful consent, IMO is a scam.

If the thread gets trollish or rough, I'll delete it. Thanks . Just wanted to let people know.

[Harmicide]

= Kid should be stoned!

JK, but in all serious laane if you see this, just give him the leather.

[Ayc2000]

Oh, yeah, I saw this thread from slushie...i think he should get something, not necessarily the recipe, but maybe money to buy one? And the recipe should be taken way from laanehal

[Zeus]

Oh, yeah, I saw this thread from slushie...i think he should get something, not necessarily the recipe, but maybe money to buy one? And the recipe should be taken way from laanehal

I don't necessarily want him to be punished, it's just the fact when I spoke to him in towne, he saw people tearing down Slush's post, so he thought it's OK to scam and you can get away with it, leading me to believe, he may do this to somebody else in the future.

[Ayc2000]

I don't necessarily want him to be punished, it's just the fact when I spoke to him in towne, he saw people tearing down Slush's post, so he thought it's OK to scam and you can get away with it, leading me to believe, he may do this to somebody else in the future.

Well, he may not have to be punished, but slush should get something, because pvp secrets are not to be taken lightly. At least an apology or something should be made

[thugimmortal]

yeah i agree that this is a scam but theres nothing that can be done as it was a vebal agreement.
this type of deal is best left for friends who a player has played with over time and gained trust.
you cant just go by a strangers word on things like this
but some people have no honour and should be ashamed of them selves.
i dont think they care anyway they got what they wanted its just a shame that slushie has missed out.

laanehal is offically named and shamed.

[Ayc2000]

Down comes the shame curtain
dun dun dunnnnnn

[davidis57]

It accomplishes one thing everyone who reads this will not enter into deals with him.

[judgementbow]

We have a trade system that was recently updated to be 100% better (haven't tried it yet but notes said you should be able to look at the trade and accept from a locked state). There shouldn't be anymore trade related scams unless you step outside the system by trading something that wasn't really meant to be traded. Maybe make a suggestion to devs to be able to trade a typed document ingame?

[Zeus]

It accomplishes one thing everyone who reads this will not enter into deals with him.

That's what I was looking for. +1.

[Kossi]

all you can do is shame them
i personally wouldnt give my lv30 build out to anyone but one person- yunaofspira

no bans are necessary.

[Redbridge]

Its a difficult one because there are two sides to every story..... BUT

If this is true, I simply couldn't take advantage of someone like that, and I'm glad Parth highlighted it so more people are aware & that people can make their own minds up.

I'm not sure anyone can do anything retrospectively but I certainly will be wary of Laanehal.

Would be a good opportunity to give your side of the story Laanehal.

[Also might be one for the Guardian Court but that would need one of the two parties to report it to DanielRH.]

[Kossi]

the devs cant do anything, so theres no reason for laane to do anything at all...

[noobmigo]

Heh.
Not really a scam.

Definition -A fraudulent business scheme

Physiologic's input - "This is why I don't PvP"

Anyway, did L-whatevs, blah, was that a fraudulent business scheme? Nope.

Which means not a scam.

Lesson Learned: Never give out secrets to people you don't trust.
eh?

Lesson Learned No. 2: Don't expect anything back.
IF you don't expect anything, then you won't think anything about it.
Seriously, even if L-Whatevs offered something, Slushy (Slushie?) shouldn't have expected anything to come. This stuff happens way too much to bring it to forums.

EDIT: ...sec...

Well...in effect it was a scam.
But not one that should be brought to forums.

But yes, a scam because:
D2 - to defraud, swindle.

[noobmigo]

OK, I basically just contradicted myself in my post before, so let me clarify(!)

This stuff basically happens way too much. It's happened to me, more times than I can count. BUT, they are PvP secrets. Not gold. Not items. Basically worthless. Coming from a heavy PvPer. If you don't expect anything, then you won't feel any loss. And it's not like you lost anything. Your build? Ooooh. What is this? 56 PvP? All builds are LITERALLY almost the same!

Anyway, this was a not-scam and a scam at the same time. (Here's the confusing part for me.)

D1 - A fraudulent business scheme. Heh, I don't think this guy is going to make any money off of this. And he's probably not going to sell it either.

D2 - To Defraud, Swindle. Well. Slushie (y) basically did get swindled out of a build, so it was a scam.

Scam Rating - 0
Scammer Skill Level Rating - 1
Victim Scam Resistance Rating - 2
Morality of the Scammer - 0
Morality of the Victim - 9

See, I even made a system!

[drewcapu]

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

If you can't put it in a trade screen, don't trade.

[Zeus]

OK, I basically just contradicted myself in my post before, so let me clarify(!)

This stuff basically happens way too much. It's happened to me, more times than I can count. BUT, they are PvP secrets. Not gold. Not items. Basically worthless. Coming from a heavy PvPer. If you don't expect anything, then you won't feel any loss. And it's not like you lost anything. Your build? Ooooh. What is this? 56 PvP? All builds are LITERALLY almost the same!

Anyway, this was a not-scam and a scam at the same time. (Here's the confusing part for me.)

D1 - A fraudulent business scheme. Heh, I don't think this guy is going to make any money off of this. And he's probably not going to sell it either.

D2 - To Defraud, Swindle. Well. Slushie (y) basically did get swindled out of a build, so it was a scam.

Scam Rating - 0
Scammer Skill Level Rating - 1
Victim Scam Resistance Rating - 2
Morality of the Scammer - 0
Morality of the Victim - 9



See, I even made a system!

Ya, but the thing is. I was speaking to Laanehal today, and he saw the posts about saying it was not a scam, so he thinks its allright to CONTINUE doing this. That's the point.

[Gluttony]

Again, I have yet to hear Laanehal's reply so I cannot be too critical of said player. Personally, I still don't see it as a scam but it does sound rather underhanded. There is no way to know how much time/effort was put into teaching said player how to pvp. There are many scenarios that would make the situation less shady, here are my top two:

1) Laanehal didn't know the price of said item, we're talking about a 1.1-1.5M item here. Now I'm not serious about pvp but that's a hefty price for some guidance.
2) Information was incomplete/incorrect, did Laanehal get the opportunity to actually test said build? Perhaps he was disappointed, was there a money back guarentee?

I could go on, but it's not necessary as I'm sure the point has been made. I was wary of just regular trades (before the confirmation screen was added) and would have never made a trade for intangible services in game. The point was made before (it was worded a bit better this time) and nothing changes imo. I don't see the point of blacklisting a player over something he/she has not had a say in at all. Finally, there should have been some intermediary (since both players didn't know each other) to handle the item and oversee the actual transaction. It sounds like there was a GoA there so perhaps the whole process should have been more thought out.

Ya, but the thing is. I was speaking to Laanehal today, and he saw the posts about saying it was not a scam, so he thinks its allright to CONTINUE doing this. That's the point.

Edit: Can he really pull it off twice? If all you're trying to do is put this char on blast, then mission accomplished. Slush already explained the situation and the word is out about said player, I don't have enough information to condemn the player but there is enough to make others think twice.

[noobmigo]

Ya, but the thing is. I was speaking to Laanehal today, and he saw the posts about saying it was not a scam, so he thinks its allright to CONTINUE doing this. That's the point.

Tell him that Noobmigo "supports" him for now, but if he pulls someone else's pants, I will come and find him.

[Fyrce]

The guy took something of value by promising to exchange it for something else of monetary value. I would say there was fraud and deception here. Whether the community support such fraud and deception, well, that's what we're discussing here.

Me, I choose not to let this stuff and such people into my "game" world. So thanks range and slushie. But then I know you guys. I don't know what's his name.