Dragon Hunter Staff

[Carapace]

Hello again Arlorians!

There have been quite a few threads and discussions popping up around the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff. We have been watching these, and discussing it internally. We feel to everyone's benefit we should discuss openly why we feel the Staff is working just as we have intended for it to work.

Before diving into that, we definitely want to say we understand that the immediate perception of "red numbers are bad" when it comes to things like damage, DPS, crit, stats, etc is hard to ignore. In many cases we find it is believed to be a guiding star for the validity of power on a new piece of equipment. In our view this is not always the case. The intent for the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff was to add another spell to the Sorcerer's arsenal, which is evidenced by the 100% chance to cast Consecrate when charging the staff.

Here I'm going outline a couple of key points about how the staff functions, and our reasoning for those functions below.

Mana Cost
One of the bigger discussion points at the moment is in regards to the mana cost of the Consecrate ability. We feel that the mana cost is appropriate for a number of reasons.

Let's look at some numbers for level 46.



The initial portion of the Consecrate cast does an AoE damage equivalent to a Charged Fireball cast around the Sorcerer, which is why that number is relevant in this discussion. In addition, Consecrate also casts a powerful shield on all allies standing within the consecrated area. This dual ability comes at the cost of an additional 52 mana over the two spells cast individually when comparing the Arcane Shield and Fireball cost together. Playing solo this is a little more expensive. If used in a group however, then the arcane shield cast portion of 168 could be reasonably split up between the number of players. In a group of four using the consecration would cost 42 mana per shielded ally. So casting Consecrate in a group scenario results in a more efficient cast / mana usage for the staff. It serves better as a strategic spell cast during moments of a confrontation.

The reason the spell costs mana at all is a result of what we learned from the Ker'shal Staff. This spell cast is a free Shadow Fireball. The fact that is was free made it impossible to give it any real power, because it would change the dynamic of the class. By that reasoning, the only way to make the Consecration cast something of value was to give it a cost.

Cast Time
The cast time for Charged Arcane Shield is .75 seconds, and the cast time for charged Fireball is also .75 seconds. In total casting these two effects apart would take 1.5 seconds. The charge cast time for Consecrate is 1.25 seconds, and is therefore actually more efficient by comparison. It also is more timely in that you deal damage and shield yourself / allies with a single cast.

Staff Damage and Stats
While the Consecrate spell does not offer the DoT component of an upgraded fireball, it does also boost each allies damage and critical chance increasing overall damage output of the group while they stand in the consecrated area. The damage provided by Consecrate is also scalable by each individual player's primary stat bonus %, elixirs, and pets. This helps make up the deficit that is seen in the raw numbers on equipping the staff. I say make up because it does not close the entire gap. The rest of the damage is spread to your allies improving output for the entire party that supercedes the individual performance in most all cases. It is inteded for group play to capitalize the full potential of the Staff.

Normal Attack DoT Proc
The proc rate for the percentage based Damage Over Time is on par with the other Arcane Weapons, but random number generation has a way of making it feel like things are happening too much, or too little depending on the odds. When it does land, it is very powerful, so we're content leaving this proc chance where it is.

Multiple Consecrations
We will be looking closer at the number of consecrates currently allowed at the same time. It may have been prudent of us to restrict the number of active Consecrates to once. This doesn't mean we will change this aspect of it, however we will review it, as this would also allow players to utilize the spell and feel more mobile by casting multiple when necessary.

In addition to the above information, the Staff could feasibly be used in place of Arcane Shield in some cases where more damage dealing abilities would be beneficial. The option to free up an action slot for another viable spell we feel makes for a good choice for players to make.

Overall we are presently content with where the Arcane Dragon Hunter Staff sits within the options for current Sorcerer weapons, and now with a little more information and understanding into how it was crafted, we hope you do to.

Thank you again for the excellent feedback, keep it coming - it does get heard!

- Carapace

[Anyona]

You did not address the issue that the staff has less skill damage but more stat damage than the Glintstone Gun.


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[Saud]

i feel the staff more like survive
you get insane health and str
str can help arcane shield not broken easily
and the spell help in clash if you use it in right place
also rem said before we granted the mythic guns
and the skill damage thing to make ppl not throw the guns away and buy the staff
its more like balance

[Otahaanak]

If its design was to be another spell in the mages arsenal, then each Mage with staff should be able to cast at least one. They shouldn't cancel each other out. A second one cast by the same Mage, sure, but not cancel another's.

I agree that the skill damage needs a bump given the bump for the Arcane Daggers was so immediate.






IGN:
Drizzitty
Cryformana

[Jazzi]

A great explanation here. I hope everyone tries to understand it Thank you!

[Kingofninjas]

I appreciate the fact that you took some time to read what we had to said and addressed it. However, I have some concerns regarding your reasoning for the mana cost and charging time.

Firstly, the range of the consecrate spell is way to small to be comparing it to the damage output of fireball. Most of the time (in pvp), my spell hits 0-1 enemy. If I am close enough for me to hit more enemies, I will probably be dead before I can finish charging the spell. Note that I am not asking for the range to be increased, merely pointing it out.

The arcane shield is also superior to the consecrate spell (for mages only). It gives an additional 15% dmg reduction and more importantly stun immunity.

I suppose the team buff aspect of consecrate makes up for that, so in a way it can be considered equal to arcane shield or fireball, but not the two put together. Given what I just wrote, I feel that the mana cost is unjustified. But that is the least of my concerns regarding the staff. The charge time I can live with as well.

If you could, would you be able to address the following issues:

1) The glintstone gun still gives significantly more skill damage than the arcane staff. This was the case between Fervor Bow and arcane daggers, and daggers were buffed. I don't see why the staff shouldn't be, at least in that regard.

2) The arcane sword and daggers both give 5 stats. The sword gives str, Int, crit, mana and hp. The daggers give Int, str, dex, crit and hp. The staff only gives 4 stats, which are Int, str, crit and hp. The 4 stats are roughly the same as the values of the primary and secondary stat the sword and daggers give, and the hp and crit is the same for all. Why does that staff not get a 5th stat attribute bonus? My suggestion would be some armor or extra crit (either in the form of crit directly or dex).

[Kingofninjas]

I apologize for the double post but for some reason when I try to edit my post from my phone it just gets deleted.

I also wished to point out that the consecrate spell seems to be a purely support spell. I understand mages are a support class and appreciate the weapon for helping us play that role, but the consecrate spell does not benefit mages in any way apart from 30 ish damage and 3 crit. The 1.25 second charge time doesn't justify such an insignificant bonus (for mages). Given proper shield rotation, we will always have 40% dmg reduction up, making consecrate useless. If it stacked it would be overpowered so that is not a solution.

In instances when mages are forced to play an offensive role, the staff lacks the firepower to do so, which is why I asked for the skill damage boost in the previous post. I don't expect it to surpass the glintstone gun, but if the difference between the arcane staff and glintstone gun was made equal to the difference between the Fervor bow and arcane daggers, that would be great.

[robetbee]

Finnaly

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[extrapayah]

other weapons' charged normal attack also do some damage equal to certain spells, if i'm not wrong, and of course, larger aoe than normal, and for some, it has additional stun effect, additional max hit target, and even (probably, we never know since you've never give us info on it) increased chance of the weapon's proc, and they are free of cost...

what i'm saying is when you're making 'consecrate' to be made as spell casted in charged attack, don't forget that you're actually removing the ability of the player to do normal charged attack of that weapon, and i think, it is need to be put into consideration/compensated into how powerful 'consecrate' should be

also, about the proc, as per my experience, proc that can procced without hitting any enemies is better in actual use, and if you compare to sword, dagger and staff has a disadvantage here...

and normal attack coverage/range, previous staves has a very wide attack coverage, making it easy to hits multiple enemies, i want to know from the users, is it the same with arcane staff? glintstone staff has a very narrow coverage, makes you hard even to hit 3 barrels, hahaha

and another thing to be taken as comparison is which proc damage is considered as 'environmental damage' and which is not? pretty sure it has effect on aggro, and some other things :P

and yes, i'm not the user of the new arcane staff, but many aspect of glintstone staff and kershal is dissapointing

[extrapayah]

also i want to add something to one of kingofninjas' point, it is about stat distribution,

the staff do give more str to mage than what daggers give int to rogue, and sword give int to warrior, so you might think that the it is justified to not give dex to mage's staff,
but the problem is the real value of each secondary atttributes is different for each class -> how important str to a mage, is not equal to how important int to warrior and rogue,
this is a very complex problem rooting from how you give different additional other bonus stat for every secondary(and primary) attribute to each class

and with the current distribution, i'm sorry but, you have failed to understand your own system in your own made stat distribution...

also, don't forget that normally, an attribute is given by level up, and each class gets equal 6 attribute points to be distributed freely, so giving a different number of total attribute in gears, without any other stat compensation can not be justified, if you're looking for balance

P.S. you might hate it, but please check my signature

[will0]

Consecrate spell area is really too small when cast example in PVP for warrior the sword lava spout spread like wild fire and mage stays at the small little spot or backing out to avoid the massacre using the arcane staff.

I don't even want to start how do mage defend themselves against rogues charging at PVP, Charging Consecrate spell when we are wide open is a free lunch to them even with arcane shield on.

If one mage cast Consecrate and another staff user does the same spell it immediately it cancel each other what is the good of this spell?

PS: The staff doesn't stun nor electrocute compare to Sword and Dagger, because we are support class with staff? Not all mages likes to play support role.

Consecrate spell cost mana .. fine since it is an 'intended' as the so call duo spell, to be honest i am not sure what the "shielding" even means (i doubt it is like arcane shield invulnerability). Does it means Consecrate spell reduce damage (shield) when cast? This is totally useless to mage since our arcane shield is already shielding isn't that it won't stack i.e Neckro shield as well together with arcane shield.

Lastly Mage doesn't do enough damage using this staff as discuss above (we do not only want to be only support class) why is it more inferior to mythic items being an "arcane" class item. The short range auto attack doesn't even do much attacking mobs in a face distance not talking about PVP play. We can be support role but it doesn't help in any offensive role as per discuss by other players here.

Normal Attack DoT Proc is hardly noticeable with the short range of staff auto attack.

[extrapayah]

also, a bit out of topic, talking about being supportive or offensive, in pve, thanks to your scaling system, all classes are forced to be offensive until certain point, there is no room for full support class...
as an example case, take a look at the complaints of warriors with the new AP, the situation is real... the situation right now is inviting a non-dps will slow your runs, and inviting a dps class, will only makes run faster if those players deals great damage, in my opinion the ideal case should be: inviting non-dps should not slow you down, and inviting dps class should always speed you up
another example case, the release of aegis helped warriors a lot. why? because it is an offensive weapons works magnificent with multiple mobs, not because it is a great defensive weapon or aggro/cc weapon...

also you are still insisting in using very different system between pve and pvp, so it is naturally very hard to find a balance between them.

so if you're sticking to the scaling system and how you make pve and pvp very different, you have to keep making weapons/gears that is have different proc/stat/mechanic for each pve and pvp (e.g. difference in chance, limitation, etc) consistently

[Caabatric]

Using this staff vs rogues: In the 1.25 seconds taken to charge this staff, a rogue can unleash a full combo taking a mage down to around 60% health, while the rogue stays at 100%???

Using the staff vs tanks: Against tanks I am constantly moving and using my long range spells to avoid incoming damage, the chance of me releasing more then 1 skill in a concencrate range....

Using the staff vs mages: Mages with a glintstone gun will already have an advantage with consitently hitting for more damage then I am. My concencrate will give me a slight advantage in the damage department, but by that time the opposing mage has landed 2-3 skill shots on me and consistently hit for about 30 more skill damage(including damage reduction) per skill shot.

In clash: Half the players are not in range of concencrate because of the small radius. If a rogue were to try to get in range they would likely get destroyed by aoe to deal an extra 40 damage? Tanks get a good buff from this however.

[klyftamon]

Using the stuff vs rogue:the fastest win and 1.25sec is to long for just a defensive skill..cant even run and hit
Using the staff vs war:well using staff or gun you are dead anyway

[Kingofninjas]

Using this staff vs rogues: In the 1.25 seconds taken to charge this staff, a rogue can unleash a full combo taking a mage down to around 60% health, while the rogue stays at 100%???

Using the staff vs tanks: Against tanks I am constantly moving and using my long range spells to avoid incoming damage, the chance of me releasing more then 1 skill in a concencrate range....

Using the staff vs mages: Mages with a glintstone gun will already have an advantage with consitently hitting for more damage then I am. My concencrate will give me a slight advantage in the damage department, but by that time the opposing mage has landed 2-3 skill shots on me and consistently hit for about 30 more skill damage(including damage reduction) per skill shot.

In clash: Half the players are not in range of concencrate because of the small radius. If a rogue were to try to get in range they would likely get destroyed by aoe to deal an extra 40 damage? Tanks get a good buff from this however.

Even after using consecrate spell, glintstone gun users will have the damage advantage. I compared a 3 eye wisdom gun to a 3 excellent mind arcane staff, so the damage from jewels was already in the staffs favor. The gun had more damage by roughly 30 skill damage on lightning skill.

[Diggdugg]

1. Circumference is too small for the charged staff to be viable for the Mage let alone the pt
2. Why doesn't the other classes use mana to use there's ???
3. If you say it's now a spell why is it still canceling each other out with multiple mages and yet it still takes mana from them? If it's a spell they should be able to all use there staffs... Agsin the other classes can all use the charged proc at the same time why can't mages???
4. If the procs are so even and random why does the Warriors leave a trail of lava pits, every time he swings it? While ours almost never procs???

But of course fix the rogues arc weapon when the blink an eye but tell mages theirs is working as you intended

[Zeus]

The warrior sword should drain mana per pool then...that proc should be considered a spell as well. Considering, it still overrides stun immunity (7 second rule).

However, please do look into KingofNinjas post. He's said everything I would've said and speaks volumes of logic about it.

There's actually three major errors with all the arcane weapons right now:
- staff inefficiencies
- warrior sword stunning through 7 second stun immunity rule in PvP
- dagger proc not procing if stun immunity is present. Therefore, stun immunity means proc immunity which is not cool either.

Thank you for taking the time to listen to us, it's very appreciated.

[klyftamon]

Cast Time
The cast time for Charged Arcane Shield is .75 seconds, and the cast time for charged Fireball is also .75 seconds. In total casting these two effects apart would take 1.5 seconds. The charge cast time for Consecrate is 1.25 seconds, and is therefore actually more efficient by comparison. It also is more timely in that you deal damage and shield yourself / allies with a single cast.


- Carapace

I prefer to use gun to cast fireball and shield than staff and consecrate.I don't know why casting consecrate is more efficient than fireball and shield,casting consecrate -fireball-shield=less dmg dealt while I get less dmg too ,casting fireball -shield-lighting =more dmg in less time this is what we want faster dmg dealt cu's probably we won't survive a rogue's or war's second combo

[Legendsoflegends]

i have dragon staff and i do elite king whenever he awake.. i solo sometimes not by choice.. ppl die ppl leave..

During elite king i die enough from dropping clock on elite king northal.. and now charging another to drop on king is like asking for another death count. bad enough i have to stand close to him and spam attacks with staff watching out for his redzone. I sometimes pray that king's attack is not going to kill me in 1 hit because i was close to his zone trying to charge proc. I actually proc the staff right in the middle of boss all the time ;p

if consecrate is like shield/fireball we should get the following for mana use

2sec invul
7m radius
hit chance reduced
etc..
Not asking for the above.. but be nice lol

why is shield and fireball being compared with proc.. so shield and fireball have been replaced.
Oh guess need to resp!

glintstone gun proc is better increase damage and speed omg

[Kingofninjas]

Another thing that doesn't seem to have been taken into account is the glintstone guns own proc. Sure, it doesn't proc as often as the arcane staff, but when it does, that proc gives MORE of a damage boost than the arcane staff. Taking that into consideration, the arcane staff definitely seems to be the inferior weapon for mages. It is only beneficial for rogues and tanks.