Stabilize Damage in PVP

[Azrael]

I'm going to make this really short. Take a bunch of different classes and hybrids, don't use and buffs, and just auto attack on one another. You will notice that the damage system is simply bizarre. Damage mitigation at times seems completely random, with half of the attacks yielding 1-15 damage and then some attacks yielding a bit more, but crits yielding at times 10 times the amount of damage as a normal hit. Obviously it is different for each class and equipment setup, but it is universal that the damage system is completely unstable, and by that i mean it simply makes no sense in many situations.

This Example shouldn't be happening:
35 trident Ursan with 80-107 against a 35 avian with a bow wearing pink sniper armor, Ursan or Avian are buffed
Bear hits for the following: 1 damage to a target 4 times, then crit for 78 damage, then do 1 damage, then do 45 damage twice, 4 damage etc..

This is half of the reason why all battles are determined by buffs (cooldowns). Its because there unbuffed attacks are very unreliable and often completely meaningless.

My suggestion: stabilize the damage, stabilize the mitigation, make damage, dodge and armor buffs less meaningful.



Edit:
this next test was rather telling:
Ogrim - Ursan - 90 armor, 63 - 83 damage
Mopeace - talon Enchantress - 68 armor, 67 -72 damage

First i attacked Mopeace with no buffs with the conq ancient sword. I did no damage unless i crit, and when i crit it was for 12 damage. With rage, crit went up to 45.
Then Mopeace attacked me. With the talon, she did no damage, and when she crit, she did 0-1 damage! when she buffed she did about 30-40 damage.

This is displays of how flawed the pvp system is right now. Players should never do 0 damage to one another like this. In particular there is a huge issue with players doing 0 damage consistently until they get a crit, which increases the damage 40x that of normal.

[nathanyc]

i just died so i agree

[Sayishere]

yea its very random

and the battle is soley based on having cooldowns ready

crit damage is very very high

[Royce]

Good stuff. This needed to be brought up. The recent debuff additions added more strategy to PvP but they made it even more focused on skills, and you are correct that it is all about cooldowns. In addition to people leaving and rejoining to replenish their health or dodge a kill, people also seem to pull this gutless trick when their buffs run out. PvP still needs a ton of tweaking. I'm not sure what the best solution is, but hopefully STS can figure it out.

[Rebel]

I personally think that PvP should be stopped for the time being. The Devs should ask the community what needs to be fixed. We tell them, the only changes they make are the changes that the community agrees on. Atleast the majority of the community that is. IMO, the more changes made right now to PvP the deeper into the hole we are going.

[Elfche]

If they stop it, we can't test it... it's trial and error. I am sure its going to take a lot of time, but that's ok! Its still a new game...

[Rebel]

Not completely stopped. I meant the updates happening to it stopped.

Anyway, I also just did a test. It seems as though weapons with debuff procs (mojo wand) still does a pretty high damage. Me as a bow mage, and staffed as a regular mage did a test. I was using bayou bow, he was using mojo wand. We didn't use any buffs or debuffs or spells. He usually killed me with half health left on him. Another test I watched was with a warrior using a 1h and shield, and an archer using talon and wing. It was constant dodge/miss. If either of them did hit, it was a 4-5 like Azrael said. We also tested out the new debuffs. I personally don't think it is physically possible to have negative armor, but it happened. An archer using both debuffs lowered me to -12 armor. After doing that, 1 blast shot was all it took to destroy me. I tried the same thing out on him, except I was using my mage buffs. Using both buffs, lightning, drain health, and firestorm, he was killed instantly. PvP is all about skills, and this needs to change.

[Mobdropper]

Very good posts and feedback in here, there might be hope for pvp just yet.

Thanks to all the testers!

[FluffNStuff]

I posted a new thread with my PVP comments, but I just wanted to mention that I think the buffs / cool down is what makes PVP work. It really adds to the timing and strategy of your attacks, instead of everyone going all out and attacking non stop. I see it as making it more like a boxing match then a slug fest.

[Azrael]

I just want to add that regardless of the armor or class setup, players just do 0 damage sometimes for no apparent reason. It's more common and obvious in some cases, but it still happes with my 2h a bit.

@fluff- i don't think people want buffs removed, they just don't want them the be the sole decider of virtually ever single fight in pvp. Atm, buff cooldowns are pvp.

[Sayishere]

Not completely stopped. I meant the updates happening to it stopped.

Anyway, I also just did a test. It seems as though weapons with debuff procs (mojo wand) still does a pretty high damage. Me as a bow mage, and staffed as a regular mage did a test. I was using bayou bow, he was using mojo wand. We didn't use any buffs or debuffs or spells. He usually killed me with half health left on him. Another test I watched was with a warrior using a 1h and shield, and an archer using talon and wing. It was constant dodge/miss. If either of them did hit, it was a 4-5 like Azrael said. We also tested out the new debuffs. I personally don't think it is physically possible to have negative armor, but it happened. An archer using both debuffs lowered me to -12 armor. After doing that, 1 blast shot was all it took to destroy me. I tried the same thing out on him, except I was using my mage buffs. Using both buffs, lightning, drain health, and firestorm, he was killed instantly. PvP is all about skills, and this needs to change.

aye negative armour is ridculous lol, i never realised archers armour breaking abilities stacked but what do ya know

this games pvp is all about getting your skills of before the other guy does, everything happens instantly, its like a fps for example

in modern warfare 2 for example you get shot with 2 bullets you die. its the same principle here, the damage is sooooo high everyone dies instantly. and this game relys WAY to much on buffs, without evasion and crit buffs, your screwed, some people like it, i do like it to some degree but this limits the gameplay so much, you get less time to think tbh, and just end up spamming stuff to get the kill

i dunno, im slowely starting to HUGELY dislike PL's PVP, i do play it for the challenge to get better but theres so much you can do with this pvp