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Thread: My Suggestion on PvP Balance

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Default My Suggestion on PvP Balance

    This is how I think that it should work. Each class should be able to stand up to each other no problem. This can happen by:

    Warrior - The point of a warrior is to have high health/armor. They are supposed to be able to take hits. They can still deal pretty good damage, but not massive damage UNLESS it is a 2h warrior. Further, with a 2h, a warrior still shouldn't have almost as much armor without his shield. There needs to be a bigger difference in a shield/no shield warrior. This can happen by greatly raising the armor value of a shield, BUT lowering the damage of 1h weapons just slightly. The damage of 2h's (IMO) should be lowered just a bit also. At the moment, classes have around ONLY 300 health. A warrior (or any hybrid class) with a 2h can hit 300 and more when they spam their flurry of skills. This combination of spammed skills added with the power of a 2h, they are able to kill enemies in what seems like 1 shot. There shouldn't be 1 hit kills AT ALL! I'll talk about this further, deeper into the thread.

    Archer - The point of an archer is to deal massive dps. There really isn't another point to it. They should do the max damage out of the other classes because they have nothing else to do. They can't heal, and they also can't take a lot of hits. And what else is there, but to do as much damage as they can. Now, since archers are supposed to be dealing the most damage, they need something to help them with that. I suggest more skills with damage over time/instant burst damage. At the moment, the only big instant damage skill that an archer has is Blast Shot. They need MORE!

    Enchantress - Enchantresss' main point is to heal and do short burst damage (but not too much damage). A mage can get too overpowered if they are able to heal and deal massive damage. If they are doing the same/more damage than an archer AND they can heal, then there is a serious problem. Enchantresss' should be able to do some damage, run away, heal, and repeat the process. Enchantresses also have the same problem as warriors. They are able to seemingly 1 shot people using their spamming skill fury. Again, THIS IS BAD and NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.

    Now, ALL of this would be different with skill trees. (Which I think are GREATLY needed)

    Skill Trees: I believe that there should be atleast 2 trees for each class. (I've gotten into this in another thread, but I'm going to go into more depth)

    Warrior: 2 Specs to be placed in

    1) THE TANK - As we all know, tanks are the toughest people to take down. As a tank, the person would get large increases in armor, BUT being a tank would also mean lowering their damage. Some new skills that they would earn would have to do with aggro. The purpose of a tank is to take damage away from everyone else. They need spells (like taunt) that will make people come to them and attack them instead of others.

    2) The DPS warrior - Now, we see DPS warriors usually being either 2h warriors (like we see in PL) and duel wielding warriors, but since we can't duel wield, explaining that isn't neccesary. Now, 2h warriors should be dealing MUCH damage, but remember, it shouldn't be as much as an archer. A 2h WARRIOR will still have that armor bonus from plate armor rather than leather armor. That advantage plus higher dps than an archer would unbalance the classes. A 2h warrior should get large burst damage skills though. With these burst damages, they shouldn't be allowed to use rage. That is one of the main skills that is overpowering the classes right now.

    Enchantress: 2 Specs to be places in

    1) (of course) The healing spec - This spec should give the enchantress every aspect and angle of healing that there is. This is due to the fact that they should not be able to do much else besides heal/buff. A healing enchantress should have all of the skills included:
    Heals
    -heal: Basically the same spell that we have now, except that it will have a shorter cooldown
    -greater heal: Same as heal, but it costs more mana and heals for slightly more
    -mend: This healing spell would work over time. For example, it would heal 10 every second for 5 seconds
    -group heal: This heal would have a large cooldown, and would cost a lot of mana. It would instantly heal the group. Each skill point placed into it would heal the group for more.
    Buffs
    -We should keep the same buffs that we now have
    -More party buffs that are long-term
    1. Buff for raising all stats by a certain number. (Only by 3-4)
    2. Buff for raising a person's dps by a small amount
    3: Buff for raising a person's armor
    ***Enchantresses should be allowed to cast these buffs on specific people instead of everyone. AND, each person should be allowed only one of these special buffs.

    Other than healing, the healing specced enchantress might be able to cast some small damage over time spells. NO HIGH BURST DAMAGE SPELLS FOR HEALERS!

    2) The battle mage - This is a class that has VERY HIGH BURST DAMAGE. This should be practically all they can do. Wands/staffs should do hardly any damage to enemies. The mage's spells should be very powerful, BUT (and this is a very serious BUT) should have LONG cooldowns (at least for the most powerful spells). Also, their AOE spell damage should be lowered. They should have to specifically target an enemy to cast a powerful spell. At the moment, an Enchantress's most powerful spell is an AOE! This should definitely not be the fact.

    Archer: 2 specs to be placed in

    1) Burst damage tree - This spec would be specifically about doing an amazingly large amount of damage in a short amount of time (not too short or they can be to overpowering against enchantresses. Enchantresses should be able to fire off heals/spells without getting instantly destroyed). These specced archers will not do constant high damage, but are more for finishing opponents off, or getting them started for their teammates to come and help. On their very powerful burst damage spells, they should have a large cooldown. Opposite for the less powerful ones.

    2) Damage Over Time Spec - This spec would be about literally putting spells on an enemy to let them sit and rot. The skills for this spec would consist of poison, flame, ice, etc... They would do a steady stream of damage to the foe, and the archer wouldn't really have to even touch them. Now, the skill damage couldn't be too high, for the archer can still use their weapon.

    Now that we have the classes set up, let's move on to damage modifications. Like I said in the beginning, (and I will repeat) THERE SHOULDN'T BE 1 HIT KILLS! This is a big NO-NO! Skills should not be so powerful as to where we literally instantly die. People are able to spam their skill combos which will usually kill or do almost deadly damage to their opponent. Now this can be fixed very easily in my eyes. CAST TIMES. This would solve SO many issues. Every class should have them. Now, there shouldn't be cast times for everything. Only powerful spells should have cast times. These cast times should only be a maximum of 3-4 seconds. Also, as people are casting, they could be interrupted if an enemy attacks them. The interruption wouldn't be long. It might just hold the spell back 1/4 of a second every time it is hit.

    Next, Lowering damage as a whole. This for one would allow longer fights. Now, IMO, it would be better if skill damage would be slightly lowered, and regular weapon damage would be slightly higher. I personally only want skills to add a boost in a fight, not make it a Win/Lose situation. I don't want skills to judge a fight, and this can be stopped by lowering skill damage.

    !
    Last edited by Rebel; 06-11-2010 at 06:45 AM.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Another good point that would help PvP GREATLY is to start each class off with about the same health/mana. Yes, a warrior could start out with a small amount of extra health, an enchantress with a small amount of extra mana, and (I believe) an archer with a small amount of extra dps. Warriors should not automatically have an extra boost of around 100 health. So, how could we replace these start off boosts? By making attributes into each spec worth more. Right now, to really make a change into a spec, it takes 10-20 attribute points. It really should make a difference around every 5 attribute points. Levels should be greatly differentiated not by the armor/weapons that you get at the level cap (although that should help) but by the extra attributes. IMO, there should be a boost of attribute points at the level cap to add those extra damage/armor/healing bonuses.

    Armor Bonuses:

    Alright, now since there are skill trees, there would need to be specific skill armor/weapons. We see this already (kind of) with enchantress weapons. We have the zombie croc robe which has 5 h/s, and we have mamboza's robe which has 5 m/s. But we need to make it more specified...

    Warrior:
    -Tank armor should be composed of GREAT armor value. It should also have high dodge incorporated into it. Now with this dodge/armor advantage, they need some kind of disadvantage. This disadvantage would be lowering the damage of tank's 1h weapons. They should be able to dodge a lot and when they do get hit, it should be lowered. But, because of this, they shouldn't be able to hit as high. Remember, tanks are for keeping aggro and taking hits, not exactly dealing them. Tank armor should also have extra health bonuses.
    -2h armor should be composed of increased damage modifiers. It should also have a high crit advantage. The armor value should be MUCH MUCH MUCH (I can not specify this enough) MUCH less than tank armor. 2h Specs can not have that armor advantage nor a high health advantage. They may have a slightly higher health advantage than the archer and much higher than the mage, but altogether, they shouldn't get health bonuses from armor.

    Enchantress:
    -Healing armor should contain all of the following:
    *Mana bonus
    *Healing bonus
    *Small armor bonus
    These are VERY important for healers.
    -Battle mage armor should include the following:
    *bonus spell damage
    *great mana increase bonus
    Battle Mages should have VERY low armor if they are to hit very high.

    Archer:
    -Burst damage armor should have low armor value, but highly increase skill damages. It should also increase an archer's dodge/crit greatly.
    -Damage over time armor should have much more armor value then the burst damage, since this type of archer wouldn't be able to do instant damage, they would need to stay alive to let their damage over time work.
    *All archer armor should have a slight speed increase IMO* This would allow archers to have that slight advantage and to add to their high dps effects.

    Alright, I've thought long and hard about this post. I probably still have many things to have that I have just forgotten to add which is why I have another reserved post after this. I am accepting ALL feed back and suggestions to add as long as it is CONSTRUCTIVE. Hope you had fun reading! (Also, this thread does not apply to hybrids. I personally would think that hybrids wouldn't be needed with these changes made.)
    Last edited by Rebel; 06-10-2010 at 10:01 PM.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Saved for future suggestions.

    Alright, now it is time for a few more suggestions pertaining to hybrids. Remember, this is totally my opinion. This would not rid of hybrids, only make it to where being a hybrid wouldn't give you such a great advantage. Some of these suggestions have already been discussed. I am just adding to them. Let's start!

    1) Alright, this suggestion was recently mentioned. I thought that it was very necessary to this game. Ok, ask yourself this question. What do attributes really do right now? The answer... Nothing. They provide us with points to wear gear. Other than that, they may raise our dps a little bit and our regen 1-2 points. THIS IS WRONG! Gear is totally supporting everything we do right now. Attributes should totally outline what class you are. They should provide a MASSIVE stat boost, ESPECIALLY when a majority of your attributes are placed into a certain attribute. At the moment, we have warriors placing just enough points into strength to wear plate armor, and then placing the rest into Dex for the dps. NO! We have enchantresses placing enough into int and going the rest into Dex. NO! Attributes should be what adds thr boost to your class. You should WANT to place your points into the spec that you wish to be. Not half and half! Gear should only give an advantage to a spec, not outline it. That is for attributes. This is how it should work. Enough attributes placed into a spec (it would have to be a majority) would give you a massive boost to that spec. Ex. ench- +10 m/s , +25 spell damage , +50 to heal. Now this is providing that skill trees aren't implented.

    2) Next, gear should add a special bonus to the class that it is meant for. For ex. Warrior plate body armor. If worn by a warrior ursan, it should give an added 2 h/s and extra 15 armor. This added bonus would be enough for many people to switch to their own class specific gear.

    3) Breakfast, and I'm starving, so I will get to this in a little bit.
    Last edited by Rebel; 06-20-2010 at 10:43 AM.

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    Wow, first class balance suggestion I actually like, bravo sir.

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    Senior Member Sayishere's Avatar
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    i agree with everything you said, im trying to think of what i can add but honestly nothing comes to mind

    but i do want skill damage lowered and normal attacks to be increased

    will think and come back with something to add, so tired right now
    Sayishere - Archer.

    Never tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Thanks for the comments guys. Sayishere, just post your suggestion when you think of one.

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    Longest post I have ever read, and a great one at that dude. +1.
    Vigilant - 45 - Bowmage

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    Senior Member Azrael's Avatar
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    Like most if not all of your ideas, similar to a lot of stuff wrote in another thread but much more detailed. Great job.

    Edit: just for the record though, 2h warrior can't hit for 300. If we apear to one shot, we are actually doing 2-3 hits in 1 second because of swings and the game does animate them all because they are too fast.

    Btw, where do you stand on hybrids using skills that dont match their weapon, aka blast shot with a sword or crippling slash with a bow?
    Last edited by Azrael; 06-10-2010 at 11:50 PM.

    Ogrim-lvl 50-Ursan Alta-lvl 45-Enchantress Broke-lvl 45-Avian
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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azrael View Post
    Like most if not all of your ideas, similar to a lot of stuff wrote in another thread but much more detailed. Great job.

    Edit: just for the record though, 2h warrior can't hit for 300. If we apear to one shot, we are actually doing 2-3 hits in 1 second because of swings and the game does animate them all because they are too fast.

    Btw, where do you stand on hybrids using skills that dont match their weapon, aka blast shot with a sword or crippling slash with a bow?
    So warriors basically do the same as enchants. They spam their combo of skills to destroy the opponent? It just looks fast because the bigger spells don't have CAST TIMES *hint hint devs*

    Also, I for one do not think hybrids should be allowed if these changes were made due to the fact that it would throw the classes into an unbalanced frenzy yet again. But, since the changes aren't made yet, I believe that hybrids that use other class spells just don't agree with nature. An avian wielding a 2h sword somehow (what does he do?) throws? A blast shot a mile away? I don't think so. But the bad thing about these problems is that if we change it for the hybrids, then that would ruin the regular classes. There just isn't a way to do it. IMO hybrids should be totally removed from the game AFTER there are some necessary changes to take the place of the hybrid's custom build (which is why people choose them. Also because they are better than regular classes) and the solution to this problem is the skill tree that I mentioned in my long long long suggestion. (it was 10600 words)

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Sorry about the double post, but Devs, if you haven't taken a look at this, please do. It was mainly directed towards you guys. Also, any other people wanting to give more suggestions are more than happy to.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Bump. I really think that some of these ideas need to be implented into the game.

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    Senior Member Sayishere's Avatar
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    im going to take some ideas from other mmos ive played

    warriors with a shield should be harder to take down than a warrior with a bow, i would like to see more modifiers like block for example

    block should be placed on shields and general tanking gear for bears, this will make them tougher if their dps was to drop via the weakening of their skills

    i would of like to see str increase damage for warriors, dex for archers and int for mages

    this will stop bears from going dex since their dps will decrease due to lack of str, a bear with a 2 handed sword would have more dps than a bow warrior because the 2 handed warrior will have more str than the bow bear

    this game needs to also add in heal modifiers, so that REAL healers can increase the potency of their heals if health was to be increased overall, healers need a bigger role in this game because right now everyone is getting 1 shotted, a healer is a easy target for everyone, this game is solely about getting of your abilities before the other.

    you know what, this might not be practical but a handicap should be placed on hybrids who stray away from their designed gear, a damage percent reduction or some sort of negative effect which i havent thought of fully yet, at the end of the day, if everyone were playing their classes the way they should the game would still be unbalanced tbh, thats the way the pvp is, but hybrids just escalates things even further.

    i really want healers and tanks to have a bigger role in this game, and defensive tactics because as an archer as much as i stack dodge and armour to make myself rock solid, i still end up getting 3 shotted

    people who want to play offensive, good, go ahead, but they should be susceptible to attacks and die faster. people who play more defensively should do less damage but die slower. theres no balance here and everyone is forced to just go all out offensive to kill the other as fast as possible. this doesnt create a good pvp experience because everything is all based on luck, and who crits and dodges to decide the winner.

    thats my thoughts

    but rebel has good points in this thread that should be looked over by the devs
    Sayishere - Archer.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Very nice suggestions! I especially like the dps raising to your certain attribute. I think that this would effectively get rid of hybrids (I ONLY WANT HYBRIDS REMOVED IF SKILL TREES WERE MADE FOR MORE CUSTOMIZATION) Also, the shield giving block goes perfect with my idea of shields adding A LOT more armor/health. And exactly what Sayishere said, (VERY IMPORTANT) healers and tanks should have a more significant part in the game. This won't happen until tank warriors are able to spec differently then dps warriors. Enchantresses should also have specs into healer and Mage to differentiate the two. All of this can happen with SKILL TREES! If there was anything that I would want done for PvP adjustment, it would be skill trees for the 3 classes. Thanks for the good feedback Say.

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    Senior Member Sayishere's Avatar
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    i want to bump this up because theres so many valid points here that should be looked at
    Sayishere - Archer.

    Never tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon.

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    Forum Adept PvP's Avatar
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    I agree with your thread. I've been arguing this topic for months. I've never seen a dev give a positive response of hope. This needs to change, I will probably quit PL for good if it stays like this. What kind of game has the tank as the DPS class and the DPS class as, absolutely worthless? It doesn't make any sense. If you're not a hybrid you're not worth it. Thats what its all about in PvP. Not a game I want to play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PvP View Post
    I agree with your thread. I've been arguing this topic for months. I've never seen a dev give a positive response of hope. This needs to change, I will probably quit PL for good if it stays like this. What kind of game has the tank as the DPS class and the DPS class as, absolutely worthless? It doesn't make any sense. If you're not a hybrid you're not worth it. Thats what its all about in PvP. Not a game I want to play.
    Actually, warriors and enchantresses fair well against hybrids. So you don't have to be a hybrid to be "worth it". I agree with you on the archer thing though, they are pretty underpowered.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Warriors fair well against hybrids. Enchantresses, not so much. But yes, the Devs should really do somehing about this. Atleast give some opinion on this issue.

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    Senior Member Rebel's Avatar
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    Alright, I've updated the thread with some ideas about hybrids. Btw, SKILL TREES FTW!!!! (but seriously, we need skill trees)

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    Bump, I can't believe I hadn't seen this until now...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel View Post
    Next, Lowering damage as a whole. This for one would allow longer fights. Now, IMO, it would be better if skill damage would be slightly lowered, and regular weapon damage would be slightly higher. I personally only want skills to add a boost in a fight, not make it a Win/Lose situation. I don't want skills to judge a fight, and this can be stopped by lowering skill damage.
    Yup yup yup.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banned View Post
    Actually, warriors and enchantresses fair well against hybrids. So you don't have to be a hybrid to be "worth it". I agree with you on the archer thing though, they are pretty underpowered.
    I find the only reason I win pvp with my ench is because I manage to get my alpha (initial volley of skills/spells or whatever you wanna call it) off before the opponent.

    I also find that manashield does jack against most alpha's, soaking usually around 10% of the damage, what's that all about?

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