I think Sorcerers Are Useless in PvE...

[Zeus]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

[Kaziscate]

Hello,

From what I've noticed and in my testings, sorcerers are now not very effective in PvE. The reason being is that the Aegis for tanks is so powerful, it's like an ongoing clock for tank with no CD. The aggro from tanks groups mobs together and then the aegis decimates the mobs. A sorcerer's skills have cool down, a tank's skills do not. When I ran the new elites, I was 22 seconds faster on my first try just by switching a very skilled sorcerer (Papalix) to another rogue. So, the party went from 1 tank 2 rogues 1 sorcerer to 1 tank 3 rogues. I, and many others, would really like for all classes to have a use without compromising each other's roles.

Please note, that these are record runs. These runs show how efficient each class is and right now, sorcerer is just not efficient in anything except crypt related maps.

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

[Zeazimeh]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fair to judge a 22 seconds difference

[Zeus]

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

I've run with a few different mages, the mage is slower every time. Papalix also has every mage weapon out there...


Here's why:

1. The maps are designed to take out specific mobs first - a rogue's job.
2. The Aegis outputs way too much AOE damage - a sorcerer's job.

There should be a balance where tank is needed but it's not taking over another classes's role. I can run 9 minutes or less in second underhul map with 3 rogues and 1 tank, but any mage will only do higher 9s or 10 mins.

[Zeus]

I hope new skills will balance it out..
Sorcerers are not useless-
If u have played elite underhul then u must have noticed the insane dot applied by red globs of light (unstable cryogems) as far as i know only a charged sorc shield is able to completely banish the dot (nekro shield did not remove it)
The dot chains to nearby allies so the dot can be given to a mage and he can banish it.. The dot also causes slows movement..
Moreover clock mastery is op against beetle and worm mobs.. A charged fireball stuns elite orcs in underhul
New elites still have bugs like infinite health of a mob (no green cryogem in proximity still mob heals) so wait for STG to eliminate the bugs.. Then it would be fare to judge a 22 seconds difference

I have played elite underhul, I also hold the records in all of the enhanced maps. Sure, for a casual farming run, sorcerers aren't useless. Then again, tanks were never useless in a casual farming run either. However, the issue is that tanks have overridden a sorcerer's job in PvE...a bit similar to how they output too much damage in PvP as well with the lava sword. They should be there for tanking. If a warrior starts doing the sorcerer's role then what is the point for sorcerer? Also, the weapons these days all stun, so there's no point in having a sorcerer in a map for stuns.

As for the orbs, if they're spawning, it's because the rogues aren't addressing the sorcerers quickly enough. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down the sorcerers before a orb has a chance to spawn. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down any immediate threats. This is not to say the rogues are OP, they're not...they get one hit in the maps so easily.


Take a look at record maps, for anything nordr and up. It's mainly tanks for a reason.

[tomsawer]

I have to agree mage is somewhat useless I have all 3 classes endgame rogue is a little better .
On a side note I'd like to add again ( as many before me have ) I'm really loving the fact that warriors now have a role to play effectively in pve. It's to the point I won't run without one



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[Zeus]

I have to agree mage is somewhat useless I have all 3 classes endgame rogue is a little better .
On a side note I'd like to add again ( as many before me have ) I'm really loving the fact that warriors now have a role to play effectively in pve. It's to the point I won't run without one



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Yes, this is specifically in PvE. Ignoring the latest buffs/debuffs stuff in PvP, sorcerers are quite powerful there - moreso than rogues. However, in PvE, they currently have no use in any map except crypts. You will be slower than a 3 rogue 1 tank party. If you would like me to prove this, I welcome anyone to post their fastest run with a sorcerer and I will beat it with a 1 tank 3 rogue party.

[eugene9707]

Sorcerers can be stun machines and can do an awesome job at defending themselves if used correctly. Also,the Flame Forged Staff's DoT can shred through enemies' hp like nothing (especially on massive groups of enemies). Plus I think more runs should be analyzed with different mages before coming to the conclusion that mages are ineffective in PvE.

Well.... Maybe this would result in mages getting buffed

Anyways, I personally feel that a mage is helpful in the new elites with the clock mastery and the stuns (or at least I like to think this way anyways). Since the mobs hits insanely hard, having them stunned improves the survivability of the group, which is what I think the role of mages.

And in my opinion, if its possible to remove the effective number of aoe attacks, it'd help mages a lot (like how Fireball only hit up to 6 enemies etc). Since if I remember correctly, agis proc doesn't have a max number of mobs it can hit? So if mage's attack can hit up to all 20 or however many mobs the warrior can pull, it'd make mages more desirable

[Zeus]

Well.... Maybe this would result in mages getting buffed

Anyways, I personally feel that a mage is helpful in the new elites with the clock mastery and the stuns (or at least I like to think this way anyways). Since the mobs hits insanely hard, having them stunned improves the survivability of the group, which is what I think the role of mages.

And in my opinion, if its possible to remove the effective number of aoe attacks, it'd help mages a lot (like how Fireball only hit up to 6 enemies etc). Since if I remember correctly, agis proc doesn't have a max number of mobs it can hit? So if mage's attack can hit up to all 20 or however many mobs the warrior can pull, it'd make mages more desirable

If a tank leads, you don't need to stun any of the mobs. The aggro is focused on the tank, then the rogues come in and stun. By the time the rogues come in, the mobs are at half health anyways because of the aegis.

[Zeazimeh]

I have played elite underhul, I also hold the records in all of the enhanced maps. Sure, for a casual farming run, sorcerers aren't useless. Then again, tanks were never useless in a casual farming run either. However, the issue is that tanks have overridden a sorcerer's job in PvE...a bit similar to how they output too much damage in PvP as well with the lava sword. They should be there for tanking. If a warrior starts doing the sorcerer's role then what is the point for sorcerer? Also, the weapons these days all stun, so there's no point in having a sorcerer in a map for stuns.

As for the orbs, if they're spawning, it's because the rogues aren't addressing the sorcerers quickly enough. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down the sorcerers before a orb has a chance to spawn. 3 rogues and 1 tank will take down any immediate threats. This is not to say the rogues are OP, they're not...they get one hit in the maps so easily.


Take a look at record maps, for anything nordr and up. It's mainly tanks for a reason.

The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)

[Zeus]

The clock mastery freeze is eternal unlike any stun applied by any weapon proc or skill.. I agree with the aegis part about warriors but what i have noted in my rins in elite underhul is that consecration of aecane staff helps a lot esp in map 2 where many mobs are orcs and gnomes the crit buff from maridos+consecration makes a rogue too lethal
I dont mean to start a fight lol but i just mean to say that sorcerers are support class and warriors are mostly preferred by the devs
(my reason to say it is- there are no buffs/debuffs on a sorcer, its always rogues or warriors buff/debuff in pvp)

I don't want to fight as well, but I'm just letting developers know before it's too late. It may not be that apparent now, but the last thing that I, and others, want is sorcerer being the one left out of parties or left out of records.

[Visiting]

I don't want to fight as well, but I'm just letting developers know before it's too late. It may not be that apparent now, but the last thing that I, and others, want is sorcerer being the one left out of parties or left out of records.

#ZeusCares2016

[Tatman]

You look at this from a timed runs perspective, which is something most people don't care about.

Granted, I stopped running these maps, because it's literally pointless to run. But I'm pretty sure a good mage with a good build is not useless for efficient runs.

[Zeus]

You look at this from a timed runs perspective, which is something most people don't care about.

Granted, I stopped running these maps, because it's literally pointless to run. But I'm pretty sure a good mage with a good build is not useless for efficient runs.

We can test this out if you'd like. Grab a mage, record ankh usage and time to complete map and I'll do the same. Then, I can run with the mage that you used and see how the results end up.

[extrapayah]

in case you're wondering, magma's buff mechanic making any sorcerer in your party reducing the effectiveness of aegis-magma combo (seems like everyone knows it now @_@)

and yes, sorcerer need pve buff, i hope with the application of this global pvp damage reduction, sorcerer will get more damage, and more aoe/increased max target

aegis were decent, when they made aegis proc have to be started by normal attack -> no chain proc possible, but sts returned it back to the how it is first released :P, which is not bad for tanks, and overpowered

[Zeus]

in case you're wondering, magma's buff mechanic making any sorcerer in your party reducing the effectiveness of aegis-magma combo (seems like everyone knows it now @_@)

and yes, sorcerer need pve buff, i hope with the application of this global pvp damage reduction, sorcerer will get more damage, and more aoe/increased max target

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

[Tatman]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

[extrapayah]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

also curious with the result , anyway, jugg need its cooldown reduced for pve use , please go push the idea to devs, mr z

[Zeus]

I suggest this. Get Papa, a random tank and a random rogue and record ankhs/time/whatever. Then substitute Papa for an op rogue and do the same.

Ok, sounds good. The only thing is the tank has to be an aegis tank.

[extrapayah]

Yes, they should not have a limit to the amount of targets a sorcerer can hit. They're an AOE class! And yes, aegis + magma is GG for any sorcerer. A sorcerer will not speed up the run or lessen the amount of deaths.

anyway, what i was saying is, tanks with aegis needs them (and only them) to burn enemies under magma's buff, to help them proc aegis, but if you have sorcerer in your team, he/she will usually dominate with dot, and ends up making the sorcerer burns all the enemies. the mechanic of magma is, one enemy can only get burned by one player at one time, it's non-stackable between players, making the buff grow more useless in party.