[Design Blog] On Balance - Adjusting items not working as intended

[ilhanna]

There may be a noticeable difference for players and there might not depending on the use of this combination, if there IS a notable difference than we can re-add that damage in another area of Aim Shot, or the Rogue's overall kit in order to make up that difference and bring them where they should be.

Play a rogue and see what other arsenal in a rogue kit can fully substitute aimed shotbfor its purpose against single enemies? Nox bolt? Mage can do DoT way better. Shadow storm shot? Same thing with nox. Shadow piercer? We don't have warrior health and armor. Trap? Veil? Razor shield? Too late to make April Fool's joke now.

Currently this number was putting a lot of noise in the damage output of the Rogue in some cases and needed to be stabilized before we can make further adjustments.

A skill allowing rogues to perform their role is considered noise. That's only because you're seeing it from behind the scene. Play the rogue and actually hear the noise in action.

Think of this as a precursor to potential Rogue improvements and enhancements, and not as a nerf because a nerf implies that we do not intend to bring it back up. Depending on the circumstances we will bring up the Rogue again where necessary. It certainly doesn't guarantee that we will, but it is a possibility.

I can't think of this as improvement when it takes me more time and mana to kill in elite.

My comments in bold.

[azicheebahan]

Game was becoming boring at pvp,now it's getting pissing.....

[ilhanna]

Consistency is the big factor here. Right now with Aimed Shot, you're punished by a large margin of damage for not taking a specific set of upgrades, and none of those upgrades says "Deal 2x more damage".

But most if not all rogues take all of the upgrades, so in what way are we punished again?

Some examples of the way this could be reworked, once the issue with Aimed Shot has been corrected (these are just things that could be done):
- All damage of Aimed Shot increases, no matter what upgrades you have, to balance out the old potential Maximum
- That large spike of maximum damage in Aimed Shot is moved to other abilities so that Rogue's aren't so reliant on only Aimed Shot Other skills have their function but they can't fully substitute aimed shot for the specific function it's used for: single target damage.
- Rogues become less glass cannon because they don't have the huge spike in damage Why is it wrong to be a glass cannon when that's exactly the role rogues play?
- Mastery for Aimed Shot is adjusted to also allow a damage increase Mastery can only be accessed by players level 20 and above. End game rogues already have to spend half of their skills points on passives, we make do without some support skills like veil and trap to make it possible for us to put mastery points to maximize nox bolt and shadow storm shot, I'm already switching builds with different skills sets for different maps, I shudder to think of what lower level rogues and those without a ton of respec scrolls for switching builds will say about making mastery a necessity to maximize aimed shot.

To clarify, we are not saying "Rogues deal too much damage and need to be nerfed". We are saying "Aimed Shot is broken and this is affecting Rogues. We need to correct Aimed Shot and figure out how to adjust Rogues after the fact."

I still can't understand why it's broken from your perspective because from mine it's not. It's doing its job.

My comments in bold.

[Tapash Bose]

Hey Arlorians,

I wanted to start a discussion with you all about balance adjustments. Whenever players bring up questions or feedback regarding items or abilities, we look into these items or mechanic in question. Sometimes we discover issues in the items or abilities that require further adjustments. While we understand that players have gotten used to the way this item or ability works, when it’s important for the overall balance of the game we have to make those adjustments.

When a weapon proc or ability is causing more damage than we intend, it not only throws off the balance of the game but it hides where balance problems are. One example I can give is the Wildfire proc. Recently I found the proc was ignoring the armor of enemies on the DoT, which should not happen. This meant a substantial increase of damage against targets with high armor.
For players, this means “Yay sorcerers are super strong!” But this is only when using a weapon that is not working properly. If without using this weapon Sorcerers are weak, then there’s an overall problem with sorcerers. Ideally, we want to fix that overall problem with Sorcerers and not the items or mechanics perceived to be the issue. This is at the core of what we're trying to find in order to make the proper balance adjustments in the game.

Another example which will be addressed in the next patch is an issue with Aimed Shot. There’s a specific combination of Aimed Shot upgrades that inflated the maximum potential damage of Aimed Shot beyond what the ability is supposed to be balanced for. This allowed Aimed Shot in this specific configuration to deal almost 2x as much potential damage as other combinations, and this is aside from the upgrade benefits displayed. Due to the popularity of Aimed Shot, this causes the opposite effect as the Wildfire upgrade. From a player perspective, “Rogues deal too much damage!” when in effect there’s one ability of Rogues which is causing unintended and excessive damage to be dealt.

The balance of Arcane Legends starts at the base classes and their abilities, then expands out to their weapons/armor, and then to the procs. We want to make sure all balance issues are properly discovered and addressed, especially if they go all the way back to the base class and abilities. It’s from this point that we can maintain the balance of AL and have usefulness and purpose for all classes.

Please keep all weapon and skill related feedback coming, and know that changes we make may not be the end of changes to that weapon or class, but in other areas of the game that we identify as core to the overall balance. Arcane Legends should feel fun and balanced for all classes, that’s our goal!

*UPDATE*
Speaking with Carapace about the performance of Rogues and Aimed Shot, this is the path we're taking. All analysis is going on right now, I gathered stats from high end Rogues in game to use as examples. The previous combination that resulted in really spiky damage for Aimed Shot will be adjusted so that the High and Low aren't so drastically far apart. All other combinations of Aimed Shot will be buffed to be in line with this combination so there won't be the disparity.

I'll be more transparent about this after the analysis is complete and will show the stats gathered for players as well as how damage would be affected (without any player names).

-STSVroom

Some questions..though I am not a opor a high end rogue..so doubt even if u will care to reply...
1, Dont we deserve to know what is the specific combination ? If that was a bug and u are fixing it after 3 years ..what is the harm in letting ppl now about the bug..
If it is indeed 5/5 every rogue from lvl 30 has it...then the only reason for not disclosing it is that u know very well the argument is not valid...
First the criteria..then armor..now u are messing with the most important attacking skill in repertoire...and judging by the current lvl of programming ( for the last few months...story of bugs and bug fixes only) i can quite imagine how it will go ..

2. With the 56 expansion every attempt is being made to nerf every class...while the mob design was very unimaginative and normal Underhul is quite beefy...nothing like when tindrin came out..when the gameplay though difficult was enjoyable...Are you making sure that nobody should enter the map wo stacking himself with all the elixir available in the market ? or otherwise should stick to tindrin...
3. As a software developer myself i know how important it is for somebody to know the environment in order to develop a software..
Well as u say ...u designed the gears ..u put stats into them after your so called considerations..
So respected sir ..I challenge 3 of your developers each from 1 class..with the lvl 56 legendary gears...gears with nothing above fortified jewels (something which only 10-15% of players have)..to elite underhul and stay alive...Ideally the legendary should be able to carry u through the elites...
I agree some of us not so op rogues are probably bad players..so we will certainly like to watch and learn from your developers how you play and handle the elite mobs and bosses...

[Safiras]

Firstly I'd like to salute the rogues who are still going out there and trying your best to play the game. You guys will go out there and unleash your (lack of) damage so that devs can get their precious data. Most rogues would probably try to run an elite map or two, get pissed off at their impotent attacks, then retreat to their mage/tank alts. I'm not sure if i will do that too. Seems the most productive way of playing now that my rogue can't do her job anymore.

I'm not convinced that you cannot test on your own before letting us bear the brunt of any major change in game mechanics. It's pretty easy to put together a team of decently-geared toons amongst the Devs and Mods and run the maps like the rest of us do (and without that /killall command used). It'll then be apparent to you how useful your fix/nerf/change/whatever will be to the so-called balance of the game.

Let me state what others probably feel as well: I do not like being made a test subject for something that adversely affects my gameplay. Ideally one altruistic gracious person would say that oh, I am up to the task, I would do the dirty work so that the game improves from my sacrifice and data collection. Unfortunately, not all of us are like that. Most of us play on limited time and want to squeeze maximum enjoyment out of every precious minute spent in game. No one likes to be guinea pigs. Obviously, I would sing a different tune if I knew that I would be getting something positive out of this brief(?) Period of lousy gameplay. You have assured us something to that effect. However you have also said that you will not guarantee some return of the rogue's original power, and that (along with other recent events), does not inspire confidence.

Notice that my post has not been addressing the specifics of the rogue aimed shot fix, nor have I given suggestions on how to give rogues back what we have lost. I am attacking what I feel has been a flawed process in gameplay evaluation and adjustment. The manner in which changes are implemented and feedback is sourced just feels so disjointed and wrong. Changes are being implemented without due feedback collected and adequate preliminary testing (again, stating here that I do not buy into the claim that Devs cannot test stuff by themselves). When this happens, people start to lose faith that a proper consultative and evaluation process is taking place. This is why people are ranting.

I will end off his long post with a parting shot at the devs: one of you mentioned that you look at the game in terms of the numerous equations and lines of code that define the game's mechanics and influence the fine balance of gameplay. I plead with you to look beyond those numbers and codes and touch the game for a bit... feel what we feel and do what we do, much more often than you already are doing, because I feel (as others do) you do not play your own game enough. I have hardly made as emotional a post as this, and I suspect it will be edited for "less drama". But I want to continue to enjoy this game with my guildies and good friends, and I just hope you guys will change the way you evaluate the game and feedback in future.

[ilhanna]

To quote Justg in this comment on a locked thread (click HERE): "Test or Dev environment is one thing, Live is completely another."

Please explain why getting Live experience should entail compromising game experience for the entire rogue population.

One last thing. I made these comments because I've played a rogue for almost three years (my third AL anniversary is in August). I love playing rogue and I care about this game and the friends I made here. I wouldn't have expressed my concerns and opinions if this is a game I'm prepared to ditch the moment it stops being fun. My views aren't drama-mongering provocations. They're based on my experience playing rogue through bad build, poor gear, skeleton stable to where I am now. You ask us to be professional in our communication with you regarding this issue. I ask you to be more transparent in your reasoning and propositions and to take our views into consideration.

[Ireliaa]

well instead of lowering the max damage(that 5k one one lowered significantly) what we need is upping the lower damage instead

rogues were falling behind already during pre nerf a buff. Glass cannon part is necessary. This aim shots max dmg reduction made us glass support

In pvp environment we were relying on that max damage to get kills, you are tying to make stable dps output, but without cc or shield etc its not gonna work on pvp environment, its eradication of rogue in pvp

[Sheentaro]

Firstly I'd like to salute the rogues who are still going out there and trying your best to play the game. You guys will go out there and unleash your (lack of) damage so that devs can get their precious data. Most rogues would probably try to run an elite map or two, get pissed off at their impotent attacks, then retreat to their mage/tank alts. I'm not sure if i will do that too. Seems the most productive way of playing now that my rogue can't do her job anymore.

I'm not convinced that you cannot test on your own before letting us bear the brunt of any major change in game mechanics. It's pretty easy to put together a team of decently-geared toons amongst the Devs and Mods and run the maps like the rest of us do (and without that /killall command used). It'll then be apparent to you how useful your fix/nerf/change/whatever will be to the so-called balance of the game.

Let me state what others probably feel as well: I do not like being made a test subject for something that adversely affects my gameplay. Ideally one altruistic gracious person would say that oh, I am up to the task, I would do the dirty work so that the game improves from my sacrifice and data collection. Unfortunately, not all of us are like that. Most of us play on limited time and want to squeeze maximum enjoyment out of every precious minute spent in game. No one likes to be guinea pigs. Obviously, I would sing a different tune if I knew that I would be getting something positive out of this brief(?) Period of lousy gameplay. You have assured us something to that effect. However you have also said that you will not guarantee some return of the rogue's original power, and that (along with other recent events), does not inspire confidence.

Notice that my post has not been addressing the specifics of the rogue aimed shot fix, nor have I given suggestions on how to give rogues back what we have lost. I am attacking what I feel has been a flawed process in gameplay evaluation and adjustment. The manner in which changes are implemented and feedback is sourced just feels so disjointed and wrong. Changes are being implemented without due feedback collected and adequate preliminary testing (again, stating here that I do not buy into the claim that Devs cannot test stuff by themselves). When this happens, people start to lose faith that a proper consultative and evaluation process is taking place. This is why people are ranting.

I will end off his long post with a parting shot at the devs: one of you mentioned that you look at the game in terms of the numerous equations and lines of code that define the game's mechanics and influence the fine balance of gameplay. I plead with you to look beyond those numbers and codes and touch the game for a bit... feel what we feel and do what we do, much more often than you already are doing, because I feel (as others do) you do not play your own game enough. I have hardly made as emotional a post as this, and I suspect it will be edited for "less drama". But I want to continue to enjoy this game with my guildies and good friends, and I just hope you guys will change the way you evaluate the game and feedback in future.

Couldn't agree more.... you da real mvp!

[stillzrealist]

with sorcerers when i sometimes use time shift it doesnt work and i have to wait for cooldown again, its annoying especially in eilte maps, maybe but not to sure on a charged heal

[Earlingstad]

Hey Arlorians,

I wanted to start a discussion with you all about balance adjustments. Whenever players bring up questions or feedback regarding items or abilities, we look into these items or mechanic in question. Sometimes we discover issues in the items or abilities that require further adjustments. While we understand that players have gotten used to the way this item or ability works, when it’s important for the overall balance of the game we have to make those adjustments.

When a weapon proc or ability is causing more damage than we intend, it not only throws off the balance of the game but it hides where balance problems are. One example I can give is the Wildfire proc. Recently I found the proc was ignoring the armor of enemies on the DoT, which should not happen. This meant a substantial increase of damage against targets with high armor.
For players, this means “Yay sorcerers are super strong!” But this is only when using a weapon that is not working properly. If without using this weapon Sorcerers are weak, then there’s an overall problem with sorcerers. Ideally, we want to fix that overall problem with Sorcerers and not the items or mechanics perceived to be the issue. This is at the core of what we're trying to find in order to make the proper balance adjustments in the game.

Another example which will be addressed in the next patch is an issue with Aimed Shot. There’s a specific combination of Aimed Shot upgrades that inflated the maximum potential damage of Aimed Shot beyond what the ability is supposed to be balanced for. This allowed Aimed Shot in this specific configuration to deal almost 2x as much potential damage as other combinations, and this is aside from the upgrade benefits displayed. Due to the popularity of Aimed Shot, this causes the opposite effect as the Wildfire upgrade. From a player perspective, “Rogues deal too much damage!” when in effect there’s one ability of Rogues which is causing unintended and excessive damage to be dealt.

The balance of Arcane Legends starts at the base classes and their abilities, then expands out to their weapons/armor, and then to the procs. We want to make sure all balance issues are properly discovered and addressed, especially if they go all the way back to the base class and abilities. It’s from this point that we can maintain the balance of AL and have usefulness and purpose for all classes.

Please keep all weapon and skill related feedback coming, and know that changes we make may not be the end of changes to that weapon or class, but in other areas of the game that we identify as core to the overall balance. Arcane Legends should feel fun and balanced for all classes, that’s our goal!

*UPDATE*
Speaking with Carapace about the performance of Rogues and Aimed Shot, this is the path we're taking. All analysis is going on right now, I gathered stats from high end Rogues in game to use as examples. The previous combination that resulted in really spiky damage for Aimed Shot will be adjusted so that the High and Low aren't so drastically far apart. All other combinations of Aimed Shot will be buffed to be in line with this combination so there won't be the disparity.

I'll be more transparent about this after the analysis is complete and will show the stats gathered for players as well as how damage would be affected (without any player names).

-STSVroom

Hello Vroom,

This thread is Cinco's thread.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...nce+adjustment

In the thread above Cinco stated that game data was already getting analyzed, and the decisions were made, balance adjustments were implemented based on tiers. At that time, the data related to damage dealt by the usual Rogue's Aimed Shot- among other things - per Tier, went on to mould and shape up other class buffs is it not? Now this new Aimed Shot change thread just made fun of this by stating that Aimshot is not working as intended. But still care about the game so cannot grab popcorn and laugh yet.

No matter how elaborately one words it, it is wrong. Think about it and lets be honest, isnt THIS totally ridiculous?---------Warriors and Mages got multiple buffs, not once but repeatedly over time. Those buffs were BASED on how balance was with Aimed Shot working as it was. Now you say AimedShot isnt working like intended so its dmg needs to be capped? So let us start from scratch, erase all the class adjustments and wipe out the Leaderboard because the "bugged" Aimedshot was a part of this?

Please dont go so fast :P. Go slow and analyze everything that has been said and done regarding balance adjustment. Coordination is vital to convince the player base of the changes you slap them with. The only thing "inconsistent" and "spiky" is this----> Why do you feel it is suddenly necessary to weaken Rogue's damage-dealing NOW when nobody was complaining about rogues recently, People complained about Warriors being OP in pvp and pve and this sudden weakening of the rogue class is what we got. That is funny.

Weren't all the previous changes made after analyzing data week after week? So you're implying that all that was BS and you need to analyze data again? That is self-contradictory and makes us distrust you.

The AimedShot was dealing just enough damage for the rogue to survive after the heavy armor nerf. Capping its damage now was not needed. And certainly not for low-damage twink brackets. To say that the low range of the Aim Shot has been increased to compensate for the higher range damage-cap cannot console.

As a player I am driven to the edge so much so that I cannot help but wonder that maybe this is a way to create a problem artificially so that the need for new damage-buffing pets is required. A month later to design and sell new heavy heal pets, you all might nerf Rogue's Heal again saying it was not intended. And why always rogue? Because the rogue is the easiest to make a scapegoat out of since the myth-image of the rogue is "rogue is op". Many of us in the player community are not a bunch of freshers on orientation day. We are very much in tune with all changes over the years and know every single detail about ALL the class/balance changes.

The absurdity of making balance adjustments to classes, weapons, gear, skill buffs, allowing leaderboards etc while keeping in mind the data about damage dealt by AimedShot all this while and then weakening the AimedShot now is hard not to notice.

Another absurd comparision is when you compared the Warrior's weapon/itemization discussion thread with this. Weapon changes do not affect all, they affect where it is needed but you have changed the main defining skill of the rogue and this affects low level rogues too where damage is already low. It is clearly not the same thing.

[Zeus]

Firstly I'd like to salute the rogues who are still going out there and trying your best to play the game. You guys will go out there and unleash your (lack of) damage so that devs can get their precious data. Most rogues would probably try to run an elite map or two, get pissed off at their impotent attacks, then retreat to their mage/tank alts. I'm not sure if i will do that too. Seems the most productive way of playing now that my rogue can't do her job anymore.

I'm not convinced that you cannot test on your own before letting us bear the brunt of any major change in game mechanics. It's pretty easy to put together a team of decently-geared toons amongst the Devs and Mods and run the maps like the rest of us do (and without that /killall command used). It'll then be apparent to you how useful your fix/nerf/change/whatever will be to the so-called balance of the game.

Let me state what others probably feel as well: I do not like being made a test subject for something that adversely affects my gameplay. Ideally one altruistic gracious person would say that oh, I am up to the task, I would do the dirty work so that the game improves from my sacrifice and data collection. Unfortunately, not all of us are like that. Most of us play on limited time and want to squeeze maximum enjoyment out of every precious minute spent in game. No one likes to be guinea pigs. Obviously, I would sing a different tune if I knew that I would be getting something positive out of this brief(?) Period of lousy gameplay. You have assured us something to that effect. However you have also said that you will not guarantee some return of the rogue's original power, and that (along with other recent events), does not inspire confidence.

Notice that my post has not been addressing the specifics of the rogue aimed shot fix, nor have I given suggestions on how to give rogues back what we have lost. I am attacking what I feel has been a flawed process in gameplay evaluation and adjustment. The manner in which changes are implemented and feedback is sourced just feels so disjointed and wrong. Changes are being implemented without due feedback collected and adequate preliminary testing (again, stating here that I do not buy into the claim that Devs cannot test stuff by themselves). When this happens, people start to lose faith that a proper consultative and evaluation process is taking place. This is why people are ranting.

I will end off his long post with a parting shot at the devs: one of you mentioned that you look at the game in terms of the numerous equations and lines of code that define the game's mechanics and influence the fine balance of gameplay. I plead with you to look beyond those numbers and codes and touch the game for a bit... feel what we feel and do what we do, much more often than you already are doing, because I feel (as others do) you do not play your own game enough. I have hardly made as emotional a post as this, and I suspect it will be edited for "less drama". But I want to continue to enjoy this game with my guildies and good friends, and I just hope you guys will change the way you evaluate the game and feedback in future.

Amen! That's why I was asking originally if our previous version of aimed shot could stay while developers come up with effective solutions. As of right now, rogues basically suffer while developers tiinker. If the first batch of tinkering doesn't get things right, then we will be waiting even longer.

[Saud]

Sometimes a bug should stay a bug
#Hexstaff
#Aimshot
#whatisnext

[kjed]

#RIP ROGUE 2016

Sent from my SM-E700H using Tapatalk

[jjperez27]

Nerf the hp of the rogue too op and nerf the dodge of the rogue too op and nerf the crit of the rogue too op!!!!!

[aneshsinghblu]

maybe this was a diversion to take away heat from the stats for plats (housing buffs)

[Tapash Bose]

To quote Justg in this comment on a locked thread (click HERE): "Test or Dev environment is one thing, Live is completely another."

Please explain why getting Live experience should entail compromising game experience for the entire rogue population.

One last thing. I made these comments because I've played a rogue for almost three years (my third AL anniversary is in August). I love playing rogue and I care about this game and the friends I made here. I wouldn't have expressed my concerns and opinions if this is a game I'm prepared to ditch the moment it stops being fun. My views aren't drama-mongering provocations. They're based on my experience playing rogue through bad build, poor gear, skeleton stable to where I am now. You ask us to be professional in our communication with you regarding this issue. I ask you to be more transparent in your reasoning and propositions and to take our views into consideration.

OMG ..if I say this at my work ...then I wont have to wait next day for the pink slip ..so what are developed software for?...running in developer environments only...lmaaao
What I can see is that current set is hellbent on destroying whatever good the game had..ofc developed so meticulously by the older developers :S
They always refer to data and analytics..but what good is the data and maths if it fails so hopelessly in live scenario ?..
The fact that so much data and mathematics for the last few months is delivering nothing other than bugs speaks a lot about the competency level ...
Somehow it seems a set of unruly children have got hold of a new toy which they could not understand...and the expected is happening

[extrapayah]

i agree that aimed shot had way too wide damage range, between its lowest and its highest, i tried some runs, and i still have equal damage on my lowest damage range prior to the fix.
if it's a fix that has goal to reduce game's dependence on luck, then i'm supporting it, and i hope, devs will also apply it to every aspect of the game, not only to rogue's aimed shot damage range.

next thing to put into consideration is, does the current rogue with new aimed shot can still do the role as intended?

[Niixed]

Whew, this thread is tldr for players on hiatus, but I'll inject one thing... I'm happy Aimed Shot is finally getting looked at. If I'm reading between the lines a little, it sounds like Aimed Shot is *starting* to truly break the game. I bet it has made designing bosses and maps for all three classes almost impossible because rogues take out bosses (and mobs!) too damn fast compared, esp compared to the other classes. The power progression of Aimed Shot is not linear, but exponential, and it has outpaced mages and warriors too much now. I don't think devs would want to tackle this subject unless they absolutely HAD to. Players nerves are already frayed, and I think Devs know that better than anyone. I can say with absolute certainty that Devs do not want to nerf anything! If AS gets nerfed, it's because they had no other choice.

I'm guessing the solution will be to bring AS' damage progression curve back in line with the other two classes. Like I advocated a last year, power levels of the highest and lowest classes should always be within plus or minus 5% of the "medium" class (mages) in order to achieve game balance.

However, I strongly urge Devs to make a HUGE PR effort to smooth things over, almost nothing is more sensitive or sacred in this game than Aimed Shot. Seriously!

[Fightbeast]

Whew, this thread is tldr for players on hiatus, but I'll inject one thing... I'm happy Aimed Shot is finally getting looked at. If I'm reading between the lines a little, it sounds like Aimed Shot is *starting* to truly break the game. I bet it has made designing bosses and maps for all three classes almost impossible because rogues take out bosses (and mobs!) too damn fast compared, esp compared to the other classes. The power progression of Aimed Shot is not linear, but exponential, and it has outpaced mages and warriors too much now. I don't think devs would want to tackle this subject unless they absolutely HAD to. Players nerves are already frayed, and I think Devs know that better than anyone. I can say with absolute certainty that Devs do not want to nerf anything! If AS gets nerfed, it's because they had no other choice.

I'm guessing the solution will be to bring AS' damage progression curve back in line with the other two classes. Like I advocated a last year, power levels of the highest and lowest classes should always be within plus or minus 5% of the "medium" class (mages) in order to achieve game balance.

However, I strongly urge Devs to make a HUGE PR effort to smooth things over, almost nothing is more sensitive or sacred in this game than Aimed Shot. Seriously!

I restrained myself from commenting on any of the posts and threads regarding the AS nerf. But probably I can't.
So you look like a mage who has an idea that rogues take out mobs and bosses faster then the other two classes. Well if you are of that opinion my first response is you are doing a poor job as a mage in killing mobs. Thank you. Second during the last armor nerf we were told since we are 'damage' class we don't need to be 'tanky', loads of our mages and tanks supported this and said that our only job is to help with mobs and bosses since we do the highest damage, not to survive but depend on wars to help with that ; but now we can't actually do what you wanted last nerf. If you are done with your ignorant comments go and check the game. Play with a rogue and check how much DMG they can pull over elite bosses using aimed.
And if people like you think that aimed is broken and all the other skills that make a rog tick, I say take away all our skill set and give us new ones with our original armor, ability to annihilate huge mobs, tank and the chance to show that we as a class will still do better then the others because we are hard workers, expensive and determined. Multiple nerfs over the year but we still play in the hope of a silver lining at the end of it all.
Right now I have just spoken on a pve basis, PvP is yet another story.

[intizamfamily888]

Btw the lvl 51 myth staff does wayy more damage with the proc than a rogue with unnerfed AS at a whole bossfight.

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