Comprehensive: Why bears have the short-end of the character stick -- Long read.

[Ellyidol]

Just want to point out how bears have the short-end of the stick. My opinions and observations from different levels of PvP and PvE. Whether you agree or disagree, this is what I think.

I'll try to start from a general perspective proceeding to a more detailed perspective.

PS: This is going to be quite a "tl:dr" descriptive explanation, so pardon me, only goes to show how strongly I feel about it.

The Real tl;dr

After much lengthy discussion and debate on this topic throughout the post, the OP only contains exaggerated suggestions. There have been more suitable suggestions throughout the thread. So before you keyboard smash after (if) reading the OP, read the thread

Not really a tl;dr huh.


How do bears have the short-end of the stick?

To keep things simple and uniform, I will assume that non-bear builds will be pure. Birds pure dex, mages pure int.

The proposed allocation of stat points for each class is,

Bear = Str
Bird = Dex
Mage = Int

I also think that the "best" of each class (bird/mage) are the pures. A pure dex bird can do what it does best, damage and kill. A pure int mage can do what it does best, support and nuke.

A pure str bear cannot do what it does best, tank.

Just on stats alone, bears already have the shorter-end of the stick by needing to have hybrid stats, at minimum. A pure str bear will never, never out-perform a str/dex bear in tanking, damaging, or debuffing. The only thing it can do better than a hybrid is outlast it if both stand still and just receive a pounding, which is non-existent in this game other than the occasional lag spike.

Tanking in this game, if not every game, is not just about standing still to take damage. It is about keeping your team alive through taking damage, in other words, aggro and control.

Our only aggro skill (Taunt) is already controversial. There is no official way to tell how it works. How long does it take aggro? How strongly does it take aggro? Does each level increase, increase the amount of aggro gained? More importantly, it can miss. This only reinforces the need for a bear to have dex, to have Hit %.

Control. Tanking isn't only doable through aggro, but control, more specifically, mob control/crowd control. We have Beckon, Stomp, and arguably Hell Scream. Again, reinforcing the dex/Hit % issue.

Do note, that aggro and control only fully apply to PvE. Aggro doesn't work in PvP, and control isn't as effective in PvP. The stat problem isn't as pronounced in PvE compared to PvP. PvE has potions, allowing the use of gear with Hit %, Dodge % and Armour instead of regen. PvP has no potions.


PvP

PvP is very different. The stat or dex/Hit % problem stated earlier is more pronounced and has a bigger impact here. Before I get into Hit % and its issues, I'll talk about a general perspective first.

Again, assumption that no hybrids and no dual specs. Pure dex birds, pure int mages, and melee bears.

Melee vs Range. That alone, understandable, melee always has the disadvantage against range. Common sense, no arguments there.

My argument is on the fighting chance of melee bears from range.

What is the longest ranged skill of a bear? Beckon, 12m. Hell Scream, 8m. Stomp, 8m. Slashes, 4m. Crushing Blow, 3m.

What do we go up against? Other than the 12/10m skills, 2 roots, 1 pushback shot, 1 12m freeze, 1 6m freeze and 1 fire pushback.

Against ONE Root/Freeze, we have Stomp to break-free with. Extensive discussion on this issue is here : http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?31093-Suggestion-Bear-skill-to-break-out-of-freeze-root.

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After our already initial disadvantage of range is our equally significant disadvantage in Hit %.

Bears have the lowest Hit %. Pure dex birds, self-explanatory. Pure int mages, if I'm not mistaken and from evidence of Wallace's thread of "How to spec your mage", mages don't have a problem on Hit % either. Even without any Hit % gear, I believe both pure dex birds and pure int mages still get a close to 100% hit rate, please correct me here.

My personal 56 bear has 96-98% Hit, depending on the ring used.

129/155 Str/Dex.
Royal Helm
Rooter's Sword
Royal Plate
Bellow Shield

If I remove the added dex and the Rooter's Sword, I lose 31% Hit. That drops it down to 65-67% Hit rate. I'm already having trouble connecting all my skills consecutively with 96-98 Hit, let alone with 65-67.

If skills don't hit, birds and mages can normally attack and kite, bears can try to chase and die.

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Bears rely on odds too much.

'Rely on odds', bears in majority rely on two things to perform in PvP (similar to birds/mages too),

Kill = Crit %
Live = Dodge %

Armour is important, but less significant due to the amount of Crit % that end-game birds/mages get. Leaving the best survival stat to be Dodge, to avoid the damage taken instead of reducing it.

No crit buff, no dodge buff, close to useless bear unless standing right next to target -- Hit issue and range issue. In my opinion, this is a general experience though. Shows how excessively potent buffs are, but that's another discussion.

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Damage. I've always thought and understood that being melee equates having the highest potential damage output.

It makes sense, have a distance disadvantage but have better damage IF you do get near.

Why bother playing a class if you can't get near, and if you do, can't out-damage?

If I'm not mistaken, pure dex birds are better off with bows and pure int mages are better off with staves, bears are in majority better off with a sword+shield. Consequently, birds and mages have the damage of 2H weapons, bears have 1H weapons.

Which leads me to my next observation.

2H str weapons. Royal Sewer Battle Hammer, very disappointing. I still stand by my opinion that the Gurgox Hammer is still the best 2H str weapon in the game. Also the most understandable. It's a 2H str weapon, it has huge damage, which is supposed to be the case.

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These problems are inter-related.

The sequence is Range - Hit % - Odds - Damage.

To combat range, we have Beckon. Assuming Beckon connects, our Hit % issue arises. Assuming our debuff/combat skills connect, for debuffs it stops here, for combat skills the odds/damage issue arises. Does it crit? Does it do enough damage?

Or

To combat range, we have Beckon. Assume Beckon doesn't connect. We either chase him down both having the same move speed - DotA/HoN/LoL type players know how move speed and chasing is related - and the gap never closes, or we decide to run the opposite direction and suffer having to deal with the roots/freezes/12m skills that we are now in range of.

Or

To combat range, Beckon. Beckon connects, but we get pushed back/rooted/frozen. We Stomp to break free, and we can either chase or run away, same situation as earlier. Or we don't Stomp, we wait til the root/freeze is over while taking damage the entire time.

For those that have experienced this, I'm sure you can relate. For those that haven't, I'm hoping it's understandable.

Like I said, the problems are inter-related. Bears deal from one problem to the next, while birds/mages have easier options.

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These problems are more noticeable as you progress to end-game. I played at 15 PvP (though this doesn't really count, all classes don't have all their skills yet), 25 PvP, 35 PvP, then jumped to end-game PvP, and played with two mindsets,

1. I am not looking for said problems, everything was balanced.

2. I am looking for the problems, putting myself in the said situations to find a way out.

In a nutshell, I could not help but think of the four problems no matter what mindset I was in. I'll try to take photos on situations that showcase the problems, such as important skills being on cooldown (Beckon, Stomp) but being frozen/rooted in place with nothing to do but stand there.

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Suggestions

1. Re-work bear skills. Development of new ones to replace existing ones.

Aggro - Give Taunt a 100% success rate, a fixed amount of time aggro'd, and an uninterruptile Taunted/Aggro'd status.

Charge - Give us a chance to get near and not rely on Beckon alone. Let us Charge in. Replace Crippling Slash, the most "useless" slash.

Damage - Improve skill damage. That's all we have. We currently need to use a 1H Sword + Shield, so normal attacks are almost non-significant. Alternatively, you can boost up 1H weapon damage, or actually provide good end-game 2H weapons.

Break-Free - Change it from Stomp to Hell Scream. Stomp is our only combo finisher yet is our only ticket out to the countless roots/freezes that we have to face, yet only have one Stomp to combat it with. It kills two birds with one stone if we use Stomp. Break free but no combo, or stay rooted for the chance of a combo. Either way, we lose one thing. Birds don't lose anything with their break-free skill, neither do mages with heal.

2. Okay, don't improve bear damage, just make us real tanks. Not a "tank" that relies on dodge to live, neither a "tank" that has to kite to survive. A real tank that's meant to dive in and get down and dirty in the front lines.

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I hope my observations make sense. There has been great discussion on such issues in these threads,

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?24007-Suggestion-A-Change-In-Warriors!

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?31016-Bear-in-PVP-are-under-powered

Do note, I'm not asking for bears to have a one-shot skill/combo neither for an invulnerability skill. I'm not asking for bears to be over-powered or birds/mages to be nerfed.

I'm pointing out the disadvantages that bears face with the hopes of being put to par with birds and mages. Let us compete and not be a burden. Asset and not a liability. Have a primary, instead of a secondary, purpose.

Pardon my lengthy post, like I said earlier, it only shows how strongly I feel towards this issue.

And no, playing a bird or mage is not an option for me. It's not that they aren't good, in fact, the entire thread pretty much points out how good they are against bears at least. I don't plan on backing out or avoiding these problems by simply switching to another toon. You don't get better if you use the easy way out.

Thanks.