Just made Elite Southern Seas 2:40

**Avshow** · 03-16-2013, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by drgrimmy

It is the same issue that occurred during season one with changes in the timer start and tomb
runs. The timer originally started with the first enemy killed and changed to starting upon first
acquiring aggro from the enemy. This essentially made lb times unbeatable as people set the
lb times by gathering huge mobs from large portions of the map and killing them fast to make
the boss spawn in a matter of seconds after the timer started. This was no longer possible with
the timer starting as soon as you gained aggro instead of when you made your first kill. There
was much contentious debate about this in the forums, and the developers eventually decided
to revert the timer start to how it was before the update.

This seems like an analogous situation with an update making leaderboard times potentially unbeatable.
I am not trying to minimize anyone's hard work or current excellent times, but current leaderboard
holders would be foolish to assume that the times they set now would not have been beaten later in the
season. Many people have not even been trying to set records yet this season. Again this is not to minimize
the hard work of anyone that is currently on the leaderboards, as there is no doubt that the current
leaderboard holders would likely have been setting some of these new records too as they refined
their methods. I am much aware of how touchy a subject this is, as back in season 1, when mages could
still compete for times, I held many of the records at the time of the update which made my times
unbeatable. Many people criticized me and my teammates calling us cheaters and saying that we did
not deserve our leaderboard times. I guess we proved them wrong by improving our times and staying
on the leaderboards after the update was reverted and the times could again be beaten

Anyways,
the point is that the current leaderboard times would have been beaten later in the season if the ALP
was not nerfed as more people would start competing for times and refining their techniques. With the
current update it remains to be seen if it is still possible to beat the times on the leaderboard, although
I too think this will be a very tall order.

Anyways, players and developers, please keep an open mind about this. If in fact there are no changes in
leaderboard times over the next couple of weeks, I think the developers may have to do something to make
the leaderboards more fair. If it indeed turns out that a team of players with hooks gets together and
dominates the leaderboards, well good for them, and I will definitely be jealous.

partly agree,partly disagree,.......nochanges in lb just becoz we are poor, cannot afford hooks,also, i think STS should make the equivilant weapon for each classes.

**drgrimmy** · 03-16-2013, 07:39 PM

Don't get me wrong, I at this point do not think that the changes are very fair, but I think we all got to keep an open mind and see how things play out. I guess my perspective is a little different as I completely gave up on timed runs over a season ago when it became clear that only teams of rogues could make the leaderboard. This is partially my own fault and my own stuborness for not adapting and changing classes at the time. So in one sense, this all is not as important to me as it is to you. After all, what do I care if it is a team of four rogues with ALPs or a team of four rogues with hooks that dominate the leaderboards?

Anyways, I digress, but my main point is that changes in the ALP has not been the only game changer when it comes to the leaderboards. On example was the change in the timers in the tombs. Now you no longer need a good warrior to gather large mobs before the timer starts for quick killing. Another, I think more serious mistatke STS made in regards to the timed leaderboards was giving mages and rogues HP for pointing stat points into INT and DEX. I know this was needed to make overall gameplay easier for mages and rogues, but it allowed rogues to put all of their stat points into DEX and still not need a good warrior to aggro the mobs.

Perhaps a compromise can be made in regards to the ALP? Perhaps the ALP can be nerfed for PvP, but can be kept as it was before the update in PvE until season 3 is over? STS would then have a clean slate at the begining of Season 4 to make any chages to the ALP. This would be similar to the compromise made regarding the timers in Season 1. I think this would be the most fair decision for both those that are already on the leaderboards and those that aspire to be on the leaderboard. This of course does not address the issue of the hooks, but it remains to be seen how much of a game changer these will be in regards to the leaderboard times.

**Avshow** · 03-16-2013, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by drgrimmy

Don't get me wrong, I at this point do not think that the changes are very fair, but I think we all got to keep an open mind and see how things play out. I guess my perspective is a little different as I completely gave up on timed runs over a season ago when it became clear that only teams of rogues could make the leaderboard. This is partially my own fault and my own stuborness for not adapting and changing classes at the time. So in one sense, this all is not as important to me as it is to you. After all, what do I care if it is a team of four rogues with ALPs or a team of four rogues with hooks that dominate the leaderboards?

Anyways, I digress, but my main point is that changes in the ALP has not been the only game changer when it comes to the leaderboards. On example was the change in the timers in the tombs. Now you no longer need a good warrior to gather large mobs before the timer starts for quick killing. Another, I think more serious mistatke STS made in regards to the timed leaderboards was giving mages and rogues HP for pointing stat points into INT and DEX. I know this was needed to make overall gameplay easier for mages and rogues, but it allowed rogues to put all of their stat points into DEX and still not need a good warrior to aggro the mobs.

Perhaps a compromise can be made in regards to the ALP? Perhaps the ALP can be nerfed for PvP, but can be kept as it was before the update in PvE until season 3 is over? STS would then have a clean slate at the begining of Season 4 to make any chages to the ALP. This would be similar to the compromise made regarding the timers in Season 1. I think this would be the most fair decision for both those that are already on the leaderboards and those that aspire to be on the leaderboard. This of course does not address the issue of the hooks, but it remains to be seen how much of a game changer these will be in regards to the leaderboard times.

yes,keep the alp stats is most fair way , but I guess this wont happen.....

**blakadder** · 03-17-2013, 04:59 AM

personally i would also love if they did that but it certainly will not happen

**Faliziaga** · 03-18-2013, 02:53 AM

Rogues' extra something

**Bootydots** · 03-18-2013, 02:40 PM

such a joke... finally us mages can get in on timed runs because of alp nerf, and now we r stuck with the fact only 4 rogues with hooks have the chance to beat the current records.

**jtst** · 03-18-2013, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bootydots

such a joke... finally us mages can get in on timed runs because of alp nerf, and now we r stuck with the fact only 4 rogues with hooks have the chance to beat the current records.

As a rogue, I find it funny too

There is a reason for this in AL - fail class roles.
If tanks would made to be very heavy and the only class that could take damage from elite mobs crowd - 1 tank would be required in each elite run. It's almost true now at kraken elite.
If mages could deal much more aoe damage than every other class, at least one mage would be required to kill mobs crowd.
If rogues would be glass cannons that deal twice single target damage as any other class, but easy die without tank taking damage and mage stunning mobs, it would be class that required to finish boss fast.

Flaws of such roles: 4rogues or 4mages can whine that they can't do elite without tank (though that would be great), and warriors whining that they nor die neither get kills in pvp (now they don't die but get kills lolz)
Flaws of current roles: speed runs belongs to rogues, team pvp belongs to warriors, frustration belongs to mages.

**drgrimmy** · 03-18-2013, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by jtst

As a rogue, I find it funny too

There is a reason for this in AL - fail class roles.
If tanks would made to be very heavy and the only class that could take damage from elite mobs crowd - 1 tank would be required in each elite run. It's almost true now at kraken elite.
If mages could deal much more aoe damage than every other class, at least one mage would be required to kill mobs crowd.
If rogues would be glass cannons that deal twice single target damage as any other class, but easy die without tank taking damage and mage stunning mobs, it would be class that required to finish boss fast.

Flaws of such roles: 4rogues or 4mages can whine that they can't do elite without tank (though that would be great), and warriors whining that they nor die neither get kills in pvp (now they don't die but get kills lolz)
Flaws of current roles: speed runs belongs to rogues, team pvp belongs to warriors, frustration belongs to mages.

This actually pretty much how it was in season 1 before the health was given to you for putting stat points in INT and DEX. Mages and rogues that were full INT or DEX could not possibly do elite maps without a warrior. Most of the leaderboard times were from teams consisting of a good warrior with a mix of mages and rogues. Unfortunately this made it very difficult for the majority of players to play a mage or rogue without putting a significant number of stat points into STR. This of course would have also been unacceptable for PvP. Warriors would have had an obvious advantage getting both increases in damage and health from putting all of their stat points in STR. This was therefore changed by STS at the begining of season 2.

I have always felt that the key to the imbalance issues in AL is due to how it allocates health, crit, dodge, damage, skill damage and mana based on only three parameters: STR, INT and DEX. At the very least if there was a fourth stat, CON or constitution which increased your health without STR, INT, DEX contributing to health, then all classes would have to choose if they wanted a more offensive glass cannon build or a more defensive build. As it is now rogues and even mages mages can put all of there stat points in dex and int respectively and still be able to tank elite levels. I think even more stats would be even better (eg separating out damage from skill damage or crit from dodge) and would lead to more diversity and specialization, but of course none of this will ever happen...