Question for a developer..... Armor

[Energizeric]

There have been some posts about the effect armor has on damage taken, but I think we are still in the dark about actual value of a certain amount of armor. I was hoping a developer could give an actual example of this..... So below I have actual real situations...

Imagine a level 31 sorcerer in PvP. Imagine he is wearing no body armor or helm, so he has 0 armor, and he takes a critical aimed shot hit from a level 31 rogue that hits him for 3000 damage.

1) How much would that damage be reduced if he had 750 armor?

2) How much would that damage be reduced if we boosted his armor to 800?


Now imagine we have a level 31 warrior in PvP. Imagine he is wearing no body armor or helm, and he has 0 armor. He takes a critical aimed shot hit from a level 31 rogue that hits him for 3000 damage.

3) How much would that damage be reduced if he had 1500 armor?

4) How much would that damage be reduced if we boosted his armor to 1550?


I think the answers to these questions would at least give us a nice idea of how armor affects damage taken at end game. Thanks for any help you can give!

[Haligali]

I would be interested that: is the aimed shot reduce armor also stacks, just like the increase of critical chance?

[JaytB]

It would be cool to know the exact armor/Dmg reduction mechanics. Knowing those mechanics would only benefit the player.

If i remember correctly though, I think I read somewhere that you'd need more armor for a higher lvl char to have the same Dmg reduction as compared to a lower lvl char. if true, this would mean that the numbers you'd get now would change next cap.

Whatever the case may be, hopefully a dev could enlighten us all.

[Energizeric]

If i remember correctly though, I think I read somewhere that you'd need more armor for a higher lvl char to have the same Dmg reduction as compared to a lower lvl char. if true, this would mean that the numbers you'd get now would change next cap.

Whatever the case may be, hopefully a dev could enlighten us all.

Yes, but the percentages should remain the same. So for example, if you were to add a 1% passive boost to your armor, that 1% should translate to have the same overall effect in the next cap. I would just like to know what that 1% means at the current cap.

Because we know very little about the effect of armor, it seems that most players value armor very little. I think most players would trade half their armor for a 2% increase in damage. Amulets and Rings that add armor are worth pennies compared to amulets and rings that add damage. Even tanks seem to not care about armor very much as you see most of them using entombed hammers by choice instead of mythic sword/shield.

[Taejo]

I appreciate this thread. Many people have asked about this since AL's release, however, the Devs always come back with the answer "We don't want to release this information". So, that being said, someone who's good with statistics (maybe GoodSyntax?) needs to do some number crunching. I still believe there's a soft cap to armor in this game, because I see no difference in damage mitigation while having 1400 armor or having 1700 armor on my warrior.

[wvhills]

Here's what a dev already said:
"Armor works like this:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage Reduction

This modifier goes down as the level of the attacking mob goes up, so that more armor is needed to maintain Damage Reduction as the player moves into higher level content.

This passive is a multiplier on the Armor Value, so that a small change might not have a huge impact on Damage Reduction, but the higher the base Armor Value the player has the more this passive is worth. Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

For example:

Warrior with 980 armor at level 21 vs. Sorcerer with 500 armor at level 21.

Warrior DR w/out passive - 980*.00047619 (attacking mobs modifier) = 46.6% DR
Sorcerer DR w/out passive - 500*.00047619 = 23.8% DR

Warrior DR w 4/5 passive - (980*1.04)*.00047619 = 48.5% DR
Sorcerer DR w 4/5 passive - (500*1.04)*.00047619 = 24.7% DR

This benefit will grow as armor values get higher, which is one of the reasons why this passive will probably never go beyond its 5% increase. It would just become too powerful over time. "

I don't know how to put quote from a different thread but here's a link. It sounds pretty complicated.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...866#post902866

[FluffNStuff]

Here's what a dev already said:
"Armor works like this:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage Reduction

This modifier goes down as the level of the attacking mob goes up, so that more armor is needed to maintain Damage Reduction as the player moves into higher level content.

This passive is a multiplier on the Armor Value, so that a small change might not have a huge impact on Damage Reduction, but the higher the base Armor Value the player has the more this passive is worth. Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

For example:

Warrior with 980 armor at level 21 vs. Sorcerer with 500 armor at level 21.

Warrior DR w/out passive - 980*.00047619 (attacking mobs modifier) = 46.6% DR
Sorcerer DR w/out passive - 500*.00047619 = 23.8% DR

Warrior DR w 4/5 passive - (980*1.04)*.00047619 = 48.5% DR
Sorcerer DR w 4/5 passive - (500*1.04)*.00047619 = 24.7% DR

This benefit will grow as armor values get higher, which is one of the reasons why this passive will probably never go beyond its 5% increase. It would just become too powerful over time. "

I don't know how to put quote from a different thread but here's a link. It sounds pretty complicated.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...866#post902866

Uhh ... that's just round about math ...
Warrior DR w 4/5 passive = 1.04 * Warrior DR w/out passive
48.5% DR = 1.04 * 46.6% DR
All that equation is saying is if you block X% without, with full you will block 1.05 * X%. Easy.

[Taejo]

it's a simple yet convoluted system that we can't explain 110% since a lot of it is behind the scenes numbers and the like we can't give away

^^ This is the problem, however. The above information, although useful (thank you wvhills), still doesn't explain the order of which other variables are applied: pets with +armor, buffs, debuffs (-% attack on mobs, -% armor from mobs). Also the mystery that remains: is there a soft cap value of armor and what is it?

[Energizeric]

I just would like a level 31 end game example that I can use now to know if a certain armor increase is worth it instead of alternatively boosting another stat. That's all I'm asking for, a real world example as I explained in my original post.

[Snakespeare]

But "level of attacking mob" is shown with a color bubble. Does anyone yet know the multipliers of the color bubbles? I'll be seeing blue at L29 in first zone of Nordr and someone will join so it goes orange. At this point, mobs hit harder and their armor improves. Do we know those values? Do they factor in here?

[Kaytar]

Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

Thren would like to know how the armor differs between the classes when having equivalent gear on (at the same levels). Does armor work differently for each class? If so, how? What is dmg to armor ratio when taking on dmg? How effective is armor vs health? i.e. determine whether having more hp better than having more armor or should a certain balance always be taken into account?

[FluffNStuff]

I just would like a level 31 end game example that I can use now to know if a certain armor increase is worth it instead of alternatively boosting another stat. That's all I'm asking for, a real world example as I explained in my original post.

Just ask any of the boosting guilds to track their damage. They shoot naked toons all the time. Maybe they will even put different armor on em if you ask nice

[Zeus]

But "level of attacking mob" is shown with a color bubble. Does anyone yet know the multipliers of the color bubbles? I'll be seeing blue at L29 in first zone of Nordr and someone will join so it goes orange. At this point, mobs hit harder and their armor improves. Do we know those values? Do they factor in here?

I'm sure we could figure them out like an algebraic equation if we know all the other values as well as the formula. I'll get to testing tonight and see what I come up with.

[Taejo]

I just would like a level 31 end game example that I can use now to know if a certain armor increase is worth it instead of alternatively boosting another stat. That's all I'm asking for, a real world example as I explained in my original post.

I doubt the Devs will respond to this. It's up to the players to figure out what hasn't already been shared.

With that being said, you're asking for information that is very tedious to extract. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be - not to mention potentially impossible since we don't know all the variables and multipliers in the function (during combat). Not to be rude, but no one here can give you a great example without recording damage and crunching the numbers. This task in itself will take hours, as there is no combat log, just red numbers flying all over the place. If you want, lead us off in the right direction: Fraps your game play and crunch the numbers for a sorcerer.

EDIT: In EverQuest, it took my guild several months to figure out all of this information. Of course, we had a combat log and people with way too much time on their hands. Not to mention, Jeff Kaplan - our guild leader - who is a lead designer for MMORPGs.

[Zeus]

I doubt the Devs will respond to this. It's up to the players to figure out what hasn't already been shared.

With that being said, you're asking for information that is very tedious to extract. It's not as simple as you're making it out to be - not to mention potentially impossible since we don't know all the variables and multipliers in the function (during combat). Not to be rude, but no one here can give you a great example without recording damage and crunching the numbers. This task in itself will take hours, as there is no combat log, just red numbers flying all over the place. If you want, lead us off in the right direction: Fraps your game play and crunch the numbers for a sorcerer.

I'll crunch the numbers for a rogue. Somebody needs to for a tank?

[Taejo]

I'll crunch the numbers for a rogue. Somebody needs to for a tank?

I've been working with my warrior looking at numbers. I can't promise solid results - Fraps makes my FPS tank and it's difficult to play. I'll post numbers/situations here for you math wizards to decipher.

[Zeus]

I've been working with my warrior looking at numbers. I can't promise solid results - Fraps makes my FPS tank and it's difficult to play. I'll post numbers/situations here for you math wizards to decipher.

What I'd do is find each one of those mobs like Bael II mobs in Windmore Harbor, kill everything around it except the guy that spawns in place of Bael II. Let him attack you naked & then let him attack you with armor (although I'd prefer to test this in the Nordr map, Bael II spawn location)

[Taejo]

What I'd do is find each one of those mobs like Bael II mobs in Windmore Harbor, kill everything around it except the guy that spawns in place of Bael II. Let him attack you naked & then let him attack you with armor (although I'd prefer to test this in the Nordr map, Bael II spawn location)

I have been using Arena bosses for my number gathering. Generally, when trying to get results with less variables involved, I use pets that only give me +HPs or +Armor. I can range my armor anywhere from 1300 to 1700, which should give us good results. It will take some time, though. I will try Nordr bosses as well, to make it less of a pain (no spiders, purple smoke, or pumpkins)

[GoodSyntax]

Here's what a dev already said:
"Armor works like this:

Armor Value * (Armor Modifier by level of attack mob) = Damage Reduction

This modifier goes down as the level of the attacking mob goes up, so that more armor is needed to maintain Damage Reduction as the player moves into higher level content.

This passive is a multiplier on the Armor Value, so that a small change might not have a huge impact on Damage Reduction, but the higher the base Armor Value the player has the more this passive is worth. Therefore, this passive is way more effective for a warrior is max armor than it would be for a sorcerer in medium armor.

For example:

Warrior with 980 armor at level 21 vs. Sorcerer with 500 armor at level 21.

Warrior DR w/out passive - 980*.00047619 (attacking mobs modifier) = 46.6% DR
Sorcerer DR w/out passive - 500*.00047619 = 23.8% DR

Warrior DR w 4/5 passive - (980*1.04)*.00047619 = 48.5% DR
Sorcerer DR w 4/5 passive - (500*1.04)*.00047619 = 24.7% DR

This benefit will grow as armor values get higher, which is one of the reasons why this passive will probably never go beyond its 5% increase. It would just become too powerful over time. "

I don't know how to put quote from a different thread but here's a link. It sounds pretty complicated.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...866#post902866

This would explain why there is a negligible difference in damage reduction when going from 1500 armor to 1550.

How STS derived these multipliers are a mystery, but for sake of this argument, lets say a mob hits at 1000 and offers an armor multiplier of 0.00047619 (as cited in this example).

Here are the damage incurred values after armor reduction given 1500 armor vs. 1550 armor:

Formula
Armor * Multiplier = Damage Reduction Value

1500 Armor
1500 * 0.00047619 = 0.714285

So, in this example, damage is reduced by 71.4285%, or alternatively, the damage you receive will be 28.5715%

1000 Damage * 0.285715 (the percentage of damage that will affect your HP) = 285.715

1550 Armor
1550 * 0.00047619 = 0.7380945

In this example, damage is reduced by 73.80945%, implying that you will receive 26.19055%.

1000 Damage * 0.2619055 = 261.9055

Comparing these two values, we can derive that +50 armor will save you an additional 23.8 HP when attacked. For a Warrior with 4,500 HP, this equates to about 0.5% of their total HP value when going with the higher armor; hence the reason why so many think that there is a soft cap. For sake of comparison, if you compare 100 armor vs 200, with an HP pool of 1,000, you save 47.619 HP, saving 4.76% of your overall HP, so that is more visible than the difference between 1500 and 1550 armor and an HP pool of 4500. It's not so much of a cap, but rather diminishing returns.

Now, I hate math as much as the next guy, so I created a Google Doc's Spreadsheet to illustrate these figures.

DAMAGE MITIGATION SPREADSHEET

Feel free to play with the DMG, Multiplier and Total HP values.

Disclaimer - I have no idea what the heck I'm doing. I may be out to lunch on this one as far as the assumptions I made and the calculations I used. This is for entertainment purposes only!

[Energizeric]

I am more interested in this with regard to pvp than for pve. In pvp we can know the stats and level of the attacker. I'm basically trying to figure out how much armor is needed to be gained to make it worthwhile to trade some damage for armor. Also if some health can be traded for armor, how much health is worth how much armor.