Want to blow the enemy away, not me
Want to blow the enemy away, not me
I actually like the forward dash. I've been complaining for ages that rogues and warriors have a speed/dash skill, and mages do not. That's why it's so hard to flag as a mage. Finally they add one, but I think the problem is that the skill is not so useful for other things. So lets' try to fix it rather than getting rid of the dash. As I suggested in my post (and Psyk also suggested a similar approach), let's make it so that one way (charged/uncharged) is useful for PvE (no dash) and the other for PvP (with dash).
I'll cut and paste my response to Crowsfoot's thread here. It's similar to what Dondarrius posted, but just a little more specific:
Unfortunately, there are far too many perks within the Gale skill tree now which makes it difficult for STG to decide how to shift them around. Like Pyskopathic said, we can't have them all! With that being said, I'd like to add my suggestions:
Gale Force (primary skill) - leave as is
Outward Squall - leave as is (uncharged is frontal cone pushback/knockdown, charged is PBAoE pushback/knockdown)
Protective Current - change this to a new, individual skill, Blitzing Gust: Charging up Gale Force will also make you dash forward. [Maybe it also does damage? Consider the ideas above about making this similar to Shadow Pierce or Skyward Smash, or what the shadowmancers in Shuyal do.]
Speed of Wind - change this to a new, but similar skill, Wind Tunnel: [this verbiage captures both the devastation of strong/fast winds and the non-visible barrier they create] Gale Force will increase your run speed by 25% for 5 seconds. Charging up Gale Force will grant you an armor bonus of +50% for 4 seconds.
Weighted Wind - leave as is (passive enhancement to Outward Squall)
With the Gale Force tree set up in this manner, I now have the option to opt out of the dash skill completely while still maintaining my AE capabilities (which also grants me +50% armor). However, if I do choose to have the dash ability, it is complimented by Outward Squall and the +50% armor bonus. The side-theme of this set up is to have the +run speed a constant buff for those who spec it, and to make Outward Squall the ultimate AE/CC ability (without the dash additive). With dash upgrade, you could also see it as a life-saver since it pushes mobs back and grants you +50% armor while you regain your bearings. Lastly, I can still utilize the frontal cone effect of Gale Force (and gain run speed) which is a useful, CC-type aspect of Gale Force that we can't leave out. I think this setup will appease both those who use Gale Force for PvE and those who use it for flagging/PvP alike.
For example, if I enjoy PvE and don't want the dash, I can spec:
Gale Force, Outward Squall, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities, run speed, and +50% armor.
If I want to flag better, or I like using the dash ability in PvE, I can spec:
Gale Force, Outward Squall, Blitzing Gust, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities and run speed when not charging my skills, plus the dash and +50% armor when charging it. Outward Squall and Weighted Wind become somewhat optional, depending on your desired capabilities.
Last edited by Taejo; 09-15-2013 at 02:20 AM.
Internet has been weird so didn't get much time to check. Happy to see so many responses and inputs. Like energizeric said, lets try to fix the dash by coming up with a solution instead of trying to get rid of it.
Following solutions should be taken into consideration:
1: Gale force = Full time AOE.
2: Armor buff + Speed buff integration in a single upgrade, charging gives more armor, speed remains the same.
3: Forward dash as a separate upgrade on uncharged.. Will act like a shadow piercer.. Just one tap!
Now, what happens here is, in pvp, mages who wanna escape ganging just need to tap the gale skill. They receive armor n speed buff. Mages who wanna stay and fight need to charge it, they receive more armor (helps for survival) and they don't dash.
For pve, say timed runs (more familiar with it, i don't use gale force in elites, plain annoying) mages who wanna run fast and catch up with rogues, just need to tap the skill, saves time. Once you are at your desired pull spot, hit your clock with root and charge your galeEnemies won't scatter much as clock is rooting them, you won't keep bouncing around since you charge the gale.
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This is basically what it comes down to. You want tap to escape charge to fight.Originally Posted by Defamed
Internet has been weird so didn't get much time to check. Happy to see so many responses and inputs. Like energizeric said, lets try to fix the dash by coming up with a solution instead of trying to get rid of it.
Following solutions should be taken into consideration:
1: Gale force = Full time AOE.
2: Armor buff + Speed buff integration in a single upgrade, charging gives more armor, speed remains the same.
3: Forward dash as a separate upgrade on uncharged.. Will act like a shadow piercer.. Just one tap!
Now, what happens here is, in pvp, mages who wanna escape ganging just need to tap the gale skill. They receive armor n speed buff. Mages who wanna stay and fight need to charge it, they receive more armor (helps for survival) and they don't dash.
For pve, say timed runs (more familiar with it, i don't use gale force in elites, plain annoying) mages who wanna run fast and catch up with rogues, just need to tap the skill, saves time. Once you are at your desired pull spot, hit your clock with root and charge your gale
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I want tap to fight charge to escape.
The biggest difference- your preference is Pve oriented slightly for damage increase.
Mine is slightly pvp oriented so we don't have to charge as often.
Either one could be a good solution but obviously pvp is where balance is needed more than Pve , which is why I still have to lean towards the setup of tap for small armor buff + aoe + and charge for big armor buff + aoe + speed + dash.
I definitely think the solution is one in which the skill can be used in the same spec for both PvP and PvE. If I have to choose between making the skill useful for either PvP or PvE, then I will choose not to use the skill at all. As I am limited in which skills I can choose, I prefer not to choose skills that can only be used for one or the other.
I didn't say they would be strictly Pve or pvp. Just slightly edged towards one or the other depending on the charge. I'm probably going into more detail than really matters anyways
I was more replying to Taejo's post. His solution was that you could spec it different ways depending on if you wanted PvP or PvE. I was saying I'd like to be able to do a full spec (all upgrades) and then control it both ways, one by using charged and one by using uncharged.I didn't say they would be strictly Pve or pvp. Just slightly edged towards one or the other depending on the charge. I'm probably going into more detail than really matters anyways
^^^ gotcha
Yes, and three other sorcerers here and suggesting the same thing. The only issue I have with Psyko's suggestion is that in order to gain the speed buff, I have to dash forward as well.
Speed is always a useful buff to have in: PvP (both flagging and not flagging), crypts (outrunning the massive pulls), timed runs (obvious), elite maps (being able to maneuver/position yourself quicker for CC). Why do I need to dash forward and lose control of my character in order to gain the speed buff? If anything, I would want the +50% armor to protect me while I can't control my character for 3 seconds (which is about what the duration of dash currently is).
I'm more inclined to agree with Dondarrius/Defamed's suggestion, with one exception:
We can't neglect the frontal cone aspect of Gale. Many sorcerers use this like a "leaf blower" skill to control the positioning of mobs. It's a great CC tool of Gale that I'd like to see stay. Additionally, having the dash ability tied into being a charged ability (and the only way to give me a speed boost) also contradicts with Outward Squall, if STG intends to keep that as a charged upgrade. It's very annoying to have the most powerful portion of the Gale skill (in terms of both damage and CC) be directly tied in to dashing forward - which is the current state of Gale in game.
This is my favorite answer so far, and the premises on which I based my suggestions on.
Last edited by Taejo; 09-15-2013 at 01:02 PM.
I wouldn't complain about an isolation of the dash ability at all as long as I'm not losing other new aspects of my skill. I still prefer a small armor buff over the speed buff on uncharged but I speak from a pvp stand point as well. I can live with having speed instead just not preferred.
I don't really care how they sort the upgrades as I would intend to get them all. Here's what I do care about.....
If I get all upgrades, I would like to be able to control whether or not I get the forward dash (charged/uncharged) and have the other way not give the forward dash. Since the forward dash is what I'd use in PvP, it makes sense that the way without the forward dash should be most ideal for PvE. Therefore, most ideal for PvE seems to involve the wide AoE (as opposed to the frontal cone range), while the PvP with the forward dash seems most idea for the frontal cone range. I'd like to see both ways have the armor increase and the speed increase, but if that is asking too much then maybe the speed burst should only be with the PvP method that includes the forward dash because there is where it would be most useful. At a minimum both ways should include the armor upgrade as that is useful always.
If they sort the skill this way and a certain player is mostly PvE, he can choose not to add the forward dash upgrade and then have 2 different PvE ways of using the skill, one with the forward cone range and the other with the full AoE range.
As I said in another post, if I cannot find this skill very useful for both PvP and PvE, then it won't be useful for me and I will choose other skills. The forward dash very much interests me due to the help with flagging, but the extra skill points required are too much to add a "one trick pony" to my character spec.
Ok, I see what you're saying, and I agree with this. I could modify my idea to reflect what you'd like to see from the skill:
Gale Force (primary skill): Uncharged is frontal cone pushback/knockdown
Outward Squall: Charged AE enhancement
Blitzing Gust: Gale Force will make you dash forward
Wind Tunnel: Gale Force will increase your run speed by 25% for 5 seconds. Additionally, charging up Gale Force will grant you an armor bonus of +50% for 4 seconds
Weighted Wind: Passive enhancement to Outward Squall
With this set up, you can spec in a variety of ways. Strictly speaking to what you're after, you can now tap Gale Force to dash and gain run speed, or charge Gale Force to AE attack, gain run speed, and gain +50% armor. I think gaining +50% armor via both methods of using Gale Force is asking a bit much. +50% armor for 4 seconds is a very powerful buff, especially since the cool down for Gale Force is only 5.5 seconds. The potential power of +50% armor is similar to our Arcane Shield's 2 second invulnerability. Because of this, I think it should be a buff from charging Gale Force as opposed to just tapping it.
EDIT: Credit for this suggestion still originates with Dondarrius and Defamed. I'm just taking the idea and running with it.
Last edited by Taejo; 09-16-2013 at 06:49 PM.
So in the end I end up with what I have now. I'd prefer non charge armor instead of speed as mentioned but yeah this sounds perfectly fine.
#35
You don't anymore? That was part of the last change, you get the speed buff both charged and uncharged.
Sorry, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Yes, you still get speed both ways. I was just highlighting the usefulness of the speed buff to Psykopathic28, because he said: "We have no need for speed if we are trying not to dash so why ask for it and/or give it to us" So I gave examples of why the current set up for speed (getting via charge/uncharge) is very useful. Other players also wanted the +50% armor buff to be a non-charged enhancements. Again, in regards to my idea, I'll emphasize that +50% armor is very powerful, and should only come from charging Gale Force.
Last edited by Taejo; 09-16-2013 at 12:27 PM.
Before the update we could have armor, AoE and a speed buff when charging Gale. After the update we can't have that speed buff with mentioned armor/AoE combo anymore, without being flung forwards.
The AoE component coupled with speed and armor was great for PvE but we don't have that anymore. I think it's really cool that sorcerers got a dash skill and I'm also really happy with other recent changes you guys made to the sorcerers' class. I only hope you would consider to implement one of the suggestions made here so we could get our AoE/Armor/speed combo back.
And for all doubters of my rockstar status:
Exactly give as AoE/armor/speed combo.back and leave dash separate. So this skill can be useful again. Without AoE is useless. And right now im pushed around like ping ping ball when charging skill to get AoE knock bc of that dash. Its absolutly useless
I like this skill and want to use it again to its full benefits. Thank you.
I like this setip, makes it viable for both pve/pvp I guess.
[B
The toeless smurf!
As for the complaints that mages dash would make you head into battle (wilhich is very bad in PvP) you must remeber that as long as you turn a corner before using you will dash away from chasers. This is my ideas on how to change wind:
A) convert gale force to a "bash" skill ramming the user into mobs (always stuns and still adds movement speed when upgraded).
B) simply shorten the length of the dash (its rediculously far) and make it an instant movement. When I use skyward smash if I hit a wall I can immediately move, but on my mage if I hit a wall there are a few seconds where I can't move at all (just as bad as being thrown into the mobs).
C) make it a buff skill. Movement speed, remove all speed debuffs, armor, dodge chance, and damage over time (essentially a super "knife storm" [not sure if that is the exact name]).
Any of these makes the skill more useful for fighting and also removes that rediculous dash length (or at least limmits it in the case of making it a dash skill).
Now to mages as a class. You guys are squishie, I get that. But how critical chances being higher and damage stats help that is a little bazar. As far as I can tell mages have 1. The lowest hp of any class 2. The lowest armor of any class. Perhaps an armor boost for PvP would help mages be on a more level field for 1v1.
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