Regarding new update

[Soundlesskill]

I won't quote everything cuz it was a big..

(i) regarding crit - rogues stack: aimed + high base crit + crit pets + crit blades. mages benefit from 1 crit skills that does not stack + crit pet.

Critring doesnt necssarily mean high dmg. I crit 0 now and then

(ii) regarding pierce - i guess we're on par now.???
(iii) regarding defense - rogues have 30% more armor that last the entire fight, we have 2secs invulnerability on charged shield (provided it doesnt fail) and dmg reduction of 30% that lasts 10 secs. There is now a thread suggesting we make a trade off here.. go support it! on the other hand, shadow veil/razor shield provides 20% armor/dodge buff.. you could drop a offensive skill and pick a defensive one, but I guess you're not willing to make such a trade off.

No im not because rouges Are the dmg class and sorc Are the support class. Also please remember you have fb stun, lightig stun and pets. Stuns from rouge last a millisecond longer than fb, but then there is all the other ways of stun. What does armor even help? Sure youll feel it if there a 1k gap, but there isnt. We cant feel it much anyways. I did have passive armor once, i didnt feel it one bit + gelp amulet 3,5k hp 1,7k armor and still 1 shot by rouges. No one says you have to buff shield first anyways, you can wait till we shallow 2 packs or so. A smurf like Rasi knows how to handle that. Thats a real gf

(iv) regarding stuns - rogues get stuns from charged regular attack and pets. we get stuns from regular attacks, 2 charged skills and pets. there is a 8 sec immunity to stuns already in place to nerf mages overly using stun. We're on par here.

No need to charge lighting to stun

(v) regarding heal - rogues heal allows you to save packs for when you need it, so can throw your pack at beginning of fight and then again at the middle after cd is over. Mages heal is a one time use only.

Mages have a HoT upgrade. Besides it is for support and also heals mana which pretty much goes down in the whole support class yadda yadda. Secondly curse works just as good as a shield IMO.

edit regarding defense - rogues and mages have roughly the same hp.

Needa disagree. Rouge have 3,3k while mages have 3,6k. And most mages will probably run arous with tank HP when they all get arcane weap (pls we all know mage weap will be all ober the place soon) Mini tanks with High dmg, sick DoT, HIGH crit AND 2 sec shield + 30sec armor buff. All classes put together in 1


Rogues have twice the damage output of mages. This was tested against Ferrix and in PVP. Even though the sorcerer in question had 20 more dmg in toon page, my rogue aimed shot did 2x the damage of lightning.

Again we arent the dmg class fir nothing. We also hae passive dmg that is not shown. Mages arent Supposed to have higher crit dmg than rouge. That is not a valid argument

If you have seen my thread about the noticable dmg nerf we feel then speculate avout this


Rouge have no more mana than last season
Rouge gets a dmg nerf.

Warrs have 6k HP. Killing a warr with 800 crit as average. 1-1,5k being rare + 0 mana at all, hows that fair.

Mages have 3,4-3,6k hp + shield + can easily crit up to 2k. Plus consistent crit DoT + continuously damage from lighting fireball.

Rouge will probably end up having to yse mana pets vs mages too. Which will lower our stats abnormaly. 3,3k ho went down to 2,999 HP minus that with 2k crit from light we hae 999HP left leaving us a 1 shot FB.

[Taejo]

A player can now only become invulnerable from the Horn of Renew once every 10 seconds, even if two or more Warriors are casting it.

More of an "overall" PvP balancing fix, but nonetheless proof that the wheels are still turning. Class balance will be modified step-by-step.

[Zeus]

More of an "overall" PvP balancing fix, but nonetheless proof that the wheels are still turning. Class balance will be modified step-by-step.

Now I'm actually not that afraid when there's an all warrior team.

[katish]

Critring doesnt necssarily mean high dmg. I crit 0 now and then.

Then I see no problem with sorcerer's crit getting buffed, agreed?

Again we arent the dmg class fir nothing. We also hae passive dmg that is not shown. Mages arent Supposed to have higher crit dmg than rouge. That is not a valid argument. No im not because rouges Are the dmg class and sorc Are the support class

Mages are not *just* a support class, unless they choose to be. This is a misleading assumption. Mages could (and should) be a damage class as well, as stated by the devs somewhere. And we all have the passive dmg issue not showing. Anyways our testing showed that rogues have twice the dmg output not only on crits, but regular attacks as well. I'm sure falmear will post the numbers soon.

What does armor even help?

I'd trade my shield for the permanent 30% armor anytime.

No need to charge lighting to stun

This is incorrect, as per the skill description, yes, you have to charge it and you only get a 25% chance to stun. again tho, there is a 7sec stun immunity in place in pvp.

Mages have a HoT upgrade.

So do rogues. And rogue's is better, cuz sorceres HOT is for 10 health per 10 secs (as per skill description) while rogues heal around 60-70 health per tick (from my observations with my rogue) for around 5 secs.

Needa disagree. Rouge have 3,3k while mages have 3,6k.

you have to show me this.. as a pure int, full mythic mage I can only take my health up to 3.3k with malison (no buffs from any pets). My rogue's is about 3.2k as a full dex all mythic rogue. These varies a LOT depending upon gear and build.. which is why I stated 'roughly' the same hp.

[katish]

Here are the numbers from lightning & aimed shot comparison.

And a very interesting analysis from Kalizzaa in the thread too.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...Shot-shoot-out

[falmear]

[SIZE=4]
Mages have 3,4-3,6k hp + shield + can easily crit up to 2k. Plus consistent crit DoT + continuously damage from lighting fireball.

No mage has 3.4-3.6k without arcane staff. A mage with a mythic gun, full int and full mythics at most has 3166 HP without sacrificing any damage. Where as a rogue has 3192 with full mythics, both using Samael as a pet. So as you can see a rogue has more HP. Plus on top of that a rogue has 1363 armor vs 1022 armor of a mage. So effectively a rogue has 30% more damage reduction over a mage. A mage with arcane staff has 3609 HP. And to backup all my numbers I can provide you screen shots with player names. Can you say the same? You can't compare every rogue to 4 or 5 mages in the game that have an arcane staff and say its not fair.

[Soundlesskill]

Then I see no problem with sorcerer's crit getting buffed, agreed?

Did I say that...

Mages are not *just* a support class, unless they choose to be. This is a misleading assumption. Mages could (and should) be a damage class as well, as stated by the devs somewhere. And we all have the passive dmg issue not showing. Anyways our testing showed that rogues have twice the dmg output not only on crits, but regular attacks as well. I'm sure falmear will post the numbers soon.

Do dmg but still not as much as rouges

This is incorrect, as per the skill description, yes, you have to charge it and you only get a 25% chance to stun. again tho, there is a 7sec stun immunity in place in pvp.

On my mage I dont need to charge it

So do rogues. And rogue's is better, cuz sorceres HOT is for 10 health per 10 secs (as per skill description) while rogues heal around 60-70 health per tick (from my observations with my rogue) for around 5 secs.

Never denied this

you have to show me this.. as a pure int, full mythic mage I can only take my health up to 3.3k with malison (no buffs from any pets). My rogue's is about 3.2k as a full dex all mythic rogue. These varies a LOT depending upon gear and build.. which is why I stated 'roughly' the same hp.

2sec adds up for the 100 hp space. 1 aimed shot is maye 1k dmg. So you are shielded vs 1k. We aren't

Falm

No mage has 3.4-3.6k without arcane staff. A mage with a mythic gun, full int and full mythics at most has 3166 HP without sacrificing any damage. Where as a rogue has 3192 with full mythics, both using Samael as a pet. So as you can see a rogue has more HP. Plus on top of that a rogue has 1363 armor vs 1022 armor of a mage. So effectively a rogue has 30% more damage reduction over a mage. A mage with arcane staff has 3609 HP. And to backup all my numbers I can provide you screen shots with player names. Can you say the same? You can't compare every rogue to 4 or 5 mages in the game that have an arcane staff and say its not fair.

Okay so we have the same hp 3,3-3,1k (can always sacrifice for more HP) but like I said 2sec adds up for 1 aimed shot. Time the shield correctly and might see yourself shielded by 2,2k crit. Adds up for the poor 100 hp or whatever you are missing, if you ask me

[Paulsebi]

All....these posts... seeing warriors are op making me sick...

How about a warrior with 6k+ hp and 1.8 k armor can be taken down by two crit hits from rogue? I have maul... I have mythic items upgraded... still taken down so easy....

How about the new update regarding the war heal nerf?

I still don't get why we as warriors are not complaining even we have the crapest kdr ....but still rogues / mages complains over and over...

You better make a warrior... then use it in PVP and I'm 100% sure you guys will stop saying warriors are OP...

Warrios are not tanks anymore..... warriors are just dead meat with the new update.... good job... AL game soon played by mages and rogues due to the STS "love" for warriors....

[Daddyblu]

All....these posts... seeing warriors are op making me sick...

How about a warrior with 6k+ hp and 1.8 k armor can be taken down by two crit hits from rogue? I have maul... I have mythic items upgraded... still taken down so easy....

How about the new update regarding the war heal nerf?

I still don't get why we as warriors are not complaining even we have the crapest kdr ....but still rogues / mages complains over and over...

You better make a warrior... then use it in PVP and I'm 100% sure you guys will stop saying warriors are OP...

Warrios are not tanks anymore..... warriors are just dead meat with the new update.... good job... AL game soon played by mages and rogues due to the STS "love" for warriors....

This new update is all crap! warrior can die less then 3-5 second with rouge critical attach.

I just tried it now. 3 warrior 1 mage 1 rouge team vs 4 rouge 1 mage.

Im a mual user with 5.7k HP 1847 armor and it only take 2 critical shot to kill a warrior. rouge critical shot is what around 2.5k up to 3k.

10 second nerf is ridiculous! its way to long! with out a 2nd warrior heal we all die less than 10 seconds!

[Soundlesskill]

Still 100% agree Paul.

Warrs needs a buff.

[Paulsebi]

Thanks Noisy... and all who see this update a very crap one which doesn't only do PVP more crap for warrior... but destroying PVE also... and making warriors use tons of pots, and same for the rest persons involved in party.

I will wanna see what the other classes will say when they will have in party two warriors.. and one heal... and they die after cause the second heal from the second war doesnt help anymore.

ONCE AGAIN THANKS STS : " AWESOME" update ---> PLEASE KILL MORE WAR CLASS !!!

btw... hope you feel my sarcasm... cause I'm a warrior...

[Zeus]

Thanks Noisy... and all who see this update a very crap one which doesn't only do PVP more crap for warrior... but destroying PVE also... and making warriors use tons of pots, and same for the rest persons involved in party.

I will wanna see what the other classes will say when they will have in party two warriors.. and one heal... and they die after cause the second heal from the second war doesnt help anymore.

ONCE AGAIN THANKS STS : " AWESOME" update ---> PLEASE KILL MORE WAR CLASS !!!

btw... hope you feel my sarcasm... cause I'm a warrior...

You don't think it was a BIT imbalanced that an entire team of warriors was unstoppable? Also, STS has bumped up your damage considerably.

Trust me, I notice it when a L35 entombed hammer starts hitting like a Maul of Ollerus.

There were many situations in the previous update where a 1 warrior & and various other classes team could excel. This update has changed none of that. The only thing that this update has changed is the stacking of shields. I would like to ask...why should warriors get 8 seconds or more of invulnerability when they start stacking warriors? What is right about that? Heck, a team of warriors can take down any opponent in 8 seconds or less!

For individual tanking, this update has changed nothing. All this has changed is the stacking of tanks. Y'all argue that losing the choice to choose teams is a better way, right? However, first of all, there's just far too many situations where that suggestion would not work. Also, that's systems purpose would also be to balance teams, right? Meaning no double tanks? So in this update and the other suggestion people are suggesting, there is no difference as long as a team is not stacking tanks.

[Paulsebi]

You don't think it was a BIT imbalanced that an entire team of warriors was unstoppable? Also, STS has bumped up your damage considerably.

Trust me, I notice it when a L35 entombed hammer starts hitting like a Maul of Ollerus.

There were many situations in the previous update where a 1 warrior & and various other classes team could excel. This update has changed none of that. The only thing that this update has changed is the stacking of shields. I would like to ask...why should warriors get 8 seconds or more of invulnerability when they start stacking warriors? What is right about that? Heck, a team of warriors can take down any opponent in 8 seconds or less!

For individual tanking, this update has changed nothing. All this has changed is the stacking of tanks. Y'all argue that losing the choice to choose teams is a better way, right? However, first of all, there's just far too many situations where that suggestion would not work. Also, that's systems purpose would also be to balance teams, right? Meaning no double tanks? So in this update and the other suggestion people are suggesting, there is no difference as long as a team is not stacking tanks.

Apollo are you playing a war? Do you had the ocasion to test a maul?

I can say you a war with all buff and 612 damage can do a hit when maul proc of a 700- 800 damage? Is this what you speak about? ... I don't see any point in your post...

And entombed hammer of warfare hits almost the same as maul without proc... if this fair?

Test it and then speak about it.....

A 5 warriors team.... I don't even like... but when there are 2 wars now vs a team with one war or no wars... still dead meat...

Also you guys don't realise this affects pve also... if a war with 6k hp and 1.8 k armor can be taken down in two - three hits by a rogue (few seconds) and you think this is fair... can you call me a tank anymore?

About what u said : "Trust me, I notice it when a L35 entombed hammer starts hitting like a Maul of Ollerus." - then where is the point of spending so much gold on arcane weap?..

I still consider STS nerfed very bad the warrior class and seems that rogues / mages doesn't like when we speak cause we were always f...d by sts...and you guys like it...

Good job STS again!

[Daddyblu]

Apollo are you playing a war? Do you had the ocasion to test a maul?

I can say you a war with all buff and 612 damage can do a hit when maul proc of a 700- 800 damage? Is this what you speak about? ... I don't see any point in your post...

And entombed hammer of warfare hits almost the same as maul without proc... if this fair?

Test it and then speak about it.....

A 5 warriors team.... I don't even like... but when there are 2 wars now vs a team with one war or no wars... still dead meat...

Also you guys don't realise this affects pve also... if a war with 6k hp and 1.8 k armor can be taken down in two - three hits by a rogue (few seconds) and you think this is fair... can you call me a tank anymore?

About what u said : "Trust me, I notice it when a L35 entombed hammer starts hitting like a Maul of Ollerus." - then where is the point of spending so much gold on arcane weap?..

I still consider STS nerfed very bad the warrior class and seems that rogues / mages doesn't like when we speak cause we were always f...d by sts...and you guys like it...

Good job STS again!

good point Paul. Rouge can do 2.5 -3k critical on my warrior. and that is half of my current hp.

it means if rouge is lucky he can kill me in two shots.

FYI im a full mythic warrior with arcane hammer.

@Apollo now tell me who is over power?

[iluvataris]

I just have to say this needed to happen, thank you stg.
Maybe 10 seconds is a bit much idk, i will let you guys discuss that.
But 5 warriors should not be able to take any class combination in the game.

Edit: 2 wars will still be great in pvp, just gota spread out a bit maybe don't get the 8 meter upgrade?

[Zeus]

Apollo are you playing a war? Do you had the ocasion to test a maul?

I can say you a war with all buff and 612 damage can do a hit when maul proc of a 700- 800 damage? Is this what you speak about? ... I don't see any point in your post...

And entombed hammer of warfare hits almost the same as maul without proc... if this fair?

Test it and then speak about it.....

A 5 warriors team.... I don't even like... but when there are 2 wars now vs a team with one war or no wars... still dead meat...

Also you guys don't realise this affects pve also... if a war with 6k hp and 1.8 k armor can be taken down in two - three hits by a rogue (few seconds) and you think this is fair... can you call me a tank anymore?

About what u said : "Trust me, I notice it when a L35 entombed hammer starts hitting like a Maul of Ollerus." - then where is the point of spending so much gold on arcane weap?..

I still consider STS nerfed very bad the warrior class and seems that rogues / mages doesn't like when we speak cause we were always f...d by sts...and you guys like it...

Good job STS again!

I have a warrior so I also know where I am coming from.

Perhaps this will get more warriors to use juggernaut and time heals even better!

Also, I KNOW that rogues cannot crit 2.5-3k anymore unless the opponents armor is severely debuffed. Unless you're stacking warriors, this update shouldn't affect you in any way.

[Bullox]

@ Apollo
You are right, we can use Juggernaut..... But for which skill?
Can you tell me Please?

Should we change one of our 2 Damage Skills (with which we can do tons of damage muahaha) with Juggernaut, or should we change with Vengeful Blood?

And can you Please explain me, how we should kill anyone? With one attack skill and autohits?

Aaaah sry i forgot, Warris are Tanks.....Warris should not be able to kill anyone, or?

[Zeus]

A tank that is harder to kill will gain more kills in the end - which will make for a stronger team and KDR.^^

You all say that this update prevents warriors from tanking. However, in reality, does it? There are more tanking skills at ones disposal that help a warrior become extremely hard to kill.

I know many warriors who use both HoR and Juggernaut. They show to be very successful in PvP. I am sure that you're more than intelligent enough to figure out a successful build that keeps you alive so you're able to stay in battle longer to make more kills.

[Paulsebi]

A tank that is harder to kill will gain more kills in the end - which will make for a stronger team and KDR.^^

You all say that this update prevents warriors from tanking. However, in reality, does it? There are more tanking skills at ones disposal that help a warrior become extremely hard to kill.

I know many warriors who use both HoR and Juggernaut. They show to be very successful in PvP. I am sure that you're more than intelligent enough to figure out a successful build that keeps you alive so you're able to stay in battle longer to make more kills.

Apollo ... first question before going deeper... are you playing Arcane Legends and you speak about this game in here?

If you can confirm this.... means.... you didn't pvp since expansion.... rogue can crit 2.5 k for sure....

"A tank that is harder to kill will gain more kills in the end" - lmao u made me laugh with this.... If a "STRONG" warrior like you say pvp one hour and a rogue pvp one hour the kills rogue will get are 5-6 times higher than the warrior .....

I'm crap warrior... but the way this expansion turns in for warrior is just .... s....t

And from both PVP / PVE perspective .... you will find out that this updates turned warrior into a chicken... and I will love the rogues / mages ---- please heal... and hope warrior will say go to STS for heal ... also I will love to see warriors hidding behind rogues mages... I was waiting for this day

Good job again STS for killing warrior class! I love you more and more by quitting this game!

roger and out...

[Deadroth]

Apollo ... first question before going deeper... are you playing Arcane Legends and you speak about this game in here?

If you can confirm this.... means.... you didn't pvp since expansion.... rogue can crit 2.5 k for sure....

"A tank that is harder to kill will gain more kills in the end" - lmao u made me laugh with this.... If a "STRONG" warrior like you say pvp one hour and a rogue pvp one hour the kills rogue will get are 5-6 times higher than the warrior .....

I'm crap warrior... but the way this expansion turns in for warrior is just .... s....t

And from both PVP / PVE perspective .... you will find out that this updates turned warrior into a chicken... and I will love the rogues / mages ---- please heal... and hope warrior will say go to STS for heal ... also I will love to see warriors hidding behind rogues mages... I was waiting for this day

Good job again STS for killing warrior class! I love you more and more by quitting this game!

roger and out...

You are most welcome Pauly XD Dev just like to make 'class' balance