Why we didn't make a new expansion for Pocket Legends in 2013

[Everyone'sFavMage]

^mmmhmmmm
And maybe a little quest for player to gt the 2/3 pc rings for pvp
But I mean just give us something like a balance or anything...Doesn't have to be a new cap...
Just something new thats gonna keep us entertained and occupied while sts works on AL.

Honestly. If 2/3 piece rings were brought back, id rage. And I don't even have 3 piece rings. Would it be nice? Yah I'd love to have 3 piece rings. But I didn't work for the, so why should I have them? It wouldn't be fair to those who earned them. It's like bringing back founders.

[Multibird]

I don't think they should rerelease any old elite vanities, have no problem, however, adding new elite vanities within this cap.

Yes, if they won't make a cap, at least make more quests so ppl without 3pc rings can get an elite ring as well.

P.S. I'm saying this because since 76 might be the last cap, their are others who started the game late, they should also have the chance of getting an elite ring. That said, I'm not saying this for myself, I already have elite rings and black dragon sets.

[XghostzX]

Honestly Sam, we appreciate just the fact that you responded. So thanks for that.
On another note, I understand putting man power into your biggest money maker. I think what most of the player base in pocket legends would like to see, is something new. Anything. We honestly don't need a new cap. We need something to spice it up. A new pvp map shouldn't be too hard to make. Really. It shouldn't. And it would satisfy so many players. At least bring it up to the group. Just the idea of putting a couple guys to work for 1-2 days. And make a new map/mode of pvp. Or add a couple quests. Something to keep us entertained while you put work into arcane. Otherwise, I fear people will start dropping off from pl, and eventually I fear the game I've loved for almost 4 years will have to shut its servers down for good.

EFM - be careful when you say "we need anything." When STS brought in the new classes after a long period of time without any serious updates, we thought at first "wow this is incredible." But soon after it hasn't been all the hype and we find ourselves in this state (boredness? denial? however you feel). So if we are, as a community, to decide what would be best for this game, just be careful what you ask for. I'd rather have an update that has a long lasting effect (such as class balance) rather than something that would be appealing for a bit then potentially die off (i.e. a new cap)... because if that were to happen, we'd find ourselves crawling back to the developers.

Back on topic - What I'm worried about is IF Arcane Legends dies off at some point (which shouldn't, at least in the next few years), then 10X the customers will start complaining about their update-less game. I mean c'mon, I bet the entire community on the AL forums constantly expect a good 1-2 updates a week. I expect a decent update every 4-6 months! Imagine the customer hate that could happen. Just a friendly heads up!

[Multibird]

Honestly. If 2/3 piece rings were brought back, id rage. And I don't even have 3 piece rings. Would it be nice? Yah I'd love to have 3 piece rings. But I didn't work for the, so why should I have them? It wouldn't be fair to those who earned them. It's like bringing back founders.

If they had made 81 cap, others would've gotten a chance too. Don't think about yourself, think about everyone. If this is the last cap, I personally believe it's not fair for the rest that started game late.

P.S. you shouldn't have problems, a skillful person can beat anyone.

[Crashy]

Check out this for pvp balance ideas:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?132705-Time-For-A-New-Era-Help-in-the-quest-to-restore-PVP&highlight=balance

[AvidLegend]

Dear Samhayne,
This post is going to be an accumulation of my ideas for Pocket Legends future and responses to your very much appreciated thread post.



First off it is good to finally get a better picture of what you and your staff are dealing with. 35 people isnt a lot of people on staff to manage your many games. In our mind spacetime games has much more than 35 developers on staff and are just busy with other games. This gives a better idea of how spread thin you are. However, this still only proves that either your company is making bad choices if its not able to fully staff all of its games. Your revolutionary game providing a flawlessly worldwide synced MMO platform with in game purchase must have made you a lot of money during its booming years and the money wasn't spent properly. Have you thought of making your studio public, selling stocks of spacetime games. I looked and was unable to find any fiscal reports on your company to really gauge the accuracy of my accusations, but your response to this specific response will interest me. Do you have a financial sustainability representative in your company? Might need to hire one. I actually know someone with those exact qualifications looking for a job as well btw message me for contact information if interested.



Okay this is the sensitive issue. Many of your dedicated fans view this as your biggest mistake. You had three successful games that were created on platforms that couldn't produce the type of game Arcane Legends would become. Many players do enjoy Arcane Legends, but what if you would have simply focused on your already existing, and successful games and brought them to the new game engines offered by the newer mobile operating systems? You would still have all the dedicated players you have playing Pocket Legends daily still, all the players that abandoned Pocket Legends to play the new Arcane Legends would still be dedicated to Pocket Legends, and all the players that tried to stay loyal to Spacetime Games but have left over the past undeveloped year would still be here. You would have one-three super games instead of 5+ mediocre games praying for the success of one to keep the other online. You have discussed how you believe that bringing Pocket Legends up to the new platform would take so much work you mine as well make a new game, but you don't realize that you have created a reputation of little customer loyalty at this point. Even Arcane Legends players have the feeling that one of your new games will be a success and you will eventually abandon them as well. This isn't the kind of reputation a successful game developing company should have, but ultimately all choices are up to you the developement team not us the players. We won't always get what we want and we know that. But imagine this...

My solution: (Not 100% sure if this will work)
I went to school for and currently hold a degree in computer systems engineering and have dabbled in graphics design and game design during my studies. Your platform might limit you and prevent this from being a possibility but if you can I believe you will be very lucrative if you can successfully pull it off.

Yes, revamping all of Pocket Legends will be a huge endeavor. However, if you continue to spread your 35 members over more and more new games you will not survive as a company. Your thought process is correct that the release of a new game comes with a lot of hype and a lot of new players that pay the bills. However, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you already cant support all your games and you continue to focus on making more.

Solution: Completely upgrade Pocket Legends. This will be a very difficult and lengthy process but overall will pay off and here is why. If you upgrade the graphics, and bring back support you can release Pocket Legends on the app store again as lets say Pocket Legends 2.0 (name doesn't matter just saying). The hype from the release will give you the new player demand you desire, your already loyal players will of course be brought over, and your fans that abandoned Pocket Legends for Arcane Legends may very well come back and create the new money bags game you desire. With my game design background (though limited and not done professionally) this is possible. You can bring all maps, expansions, items, characters, achievements, quests, etc over to the new platform and reuse a ton of your old coding to make it easier on yourself. The point wouldn't be to make a new game but upgrade your old one. You can't deviate from the currently style of game play Pocket Legends offers because you will lose your dedicated members. By this I specifically mean making it Platinum Dependant like Arcane Legends. Basically a graphic overhaul and possibly an expansion soon after. Considering Pocket Legends is only at 76 cap right now as well there is still plenty of room for future expansions to make this effort worth it over the long run. Examples of this method working for another company would be Jagex's major success after releasing their first platform of runescape classic and upgrading to runescape and then again revamping to runescape combat evolve and now yet again they are releasing runescape 3. This is an example of a company staying dedicated to their player community and focussing on their single game keeping it competitive with other games by continually updating its graphics options. Learn from their success and your own successes and failures and please come back to glory.

I personally over my 3 years of playing this game have spent $1000 and a ridiculous amount of time leveling, questing, helping the community both in game and on the forums, and my greatest fear is that eventually this game will be dropped all together. And considering you felt it was necessary to post this thread many other players within this community feel exactly the same way. That should be your sign right there.

Please let me know what you think. Also do you take volunteer game developers? I have several hours I can dedicate a week.

Sincerely AvidLegend

^^BUMB^^

[IGN Storm]

@Sam Mucho Gracias for taking the time to write this. It certainly helps me see things from your perspective. Still, I believe you guys should make one final push at fixing PL. Balance the classes, fix the gear, make Elite Rings available for new players, and you can just let the game sit there for a while. Right now PL feels like a story without an ending, and you as the author should tie up the "loose ends". Making new games is fun, yes, but we as players HATE to start over, kinda like what you guys experienced with Blackstar. The only reason I love MMOs opposed to something like Doodle Jump is that everytime I play, I'm progressing. But if I moved to AL what other games you decide to make in the future, I would have to start over n over n over again.

@EFM I think 3 piece rings should be made obtainable as long as we gain the required 100k exp. Elite vanities should not be awarded so players who did the grinding before have something extra. Founders will always be exclusive as you won't be able to complete the requirement of "joining" during the first week again.

@Avid Sam made it pretty obvious that investing money into AL is more worthwhile. Yes they can take a gamble and update PL but why would they if the success chance of AL is higher? And you Runescape 3 example is irrelevant. During RS 2, worlds are almost always full but after RS 3 and the EOC, it would be rare to find a world with over 500 players.

[NotYoCookiez]

solution: merge pocket legends and arcane legends into one giant epic 3D MMORPG. imagine the hype.

[WeLoveJesus]

Dear Samhayne,
This post is going to be an accumulation of my ideas for Pocket Legends future and responses to your very much appreciated thread post.



First off it is good to finally get a better picture of what you and your staff are dealing with. 35 people isnt a lot of people on staff to manage your many games. In our mind spacetime games has much more than 35 developers on staff and are just busy with other games. This gives a better idea of how spread thin you are. However, this still only proves that either your company is making bad choices if its not able to fully staff all of its games. Your revolutionary game providing a flawlessly worldwide synced MMO platform with in game purchase must have made you a lot of money during its booming years and the money wasn't spent properly. Have you thought of making your studio public, selling stocks of spacetime games. I looked and was unable to find any fiscal reports on your company to really gauge the accuracy of my accusations, but your response to this specific response will interest me. Do you have a financial sustainability representative in your company? Might need to hire one. I actually know someone with those exact qualifications looking for a job as well btw message me for contact information if interested.



Okay this is the sensitive issue. Many of your dedicated fans view this as your biggest mistake. You had three successful games that were created on platforms that couldn't produce the type of game Arcane Legends would become. Many players do enjoy Arcane Legends, but what if you would have simply focused on your already existing, and successful games and brought them to the new game engines offered by the newer mobile operating systems? You would still have all the dedicated players you have playing Pocket Legends daily still, all the players that abandoned Pocket Legends to play the new Arcane Legends would still be dedicated to Pocket Legends, and all the players that tried to stay loyal to Spacetime Games but have left over the past undeveloped year would still be here. You would have one-three super games instead of 5+ mediocre games praying for the success of one to keep the other online. You have discussed how you believe that bringing Pocket Legends up to the new platform would take so much work you mine as well make a new game, but you don't realize that you have created a reputation of little customer loyalty at this point. Even Arcane Legends players have the feeling that one of your new games will be a success and you will eventually abandon them as well. This isn't the kind of reputation a successful game developing company should have, but ultimately all choices are up to you the developement team not us the players. We won't always get what we want and we know that. But imagine this...

My solution: (Not 100% sure if this will work)
I went to school for and currently hold a degree in computer systems engineering and have dabbled in graphics design and game design during my studies. Your platform might limit you and prevent this from being a possibility but if you can I believe you will be very lucrative if you can successfully pull it off.

Yes, revamping all of Pocket Legends will be a huge endeavor. However, if you continue to spread your 35 members over more and more new games you will not survive as a company. Your thought process is correct that the release of a new game comes with a lot of hype and a lot of new players that pay the bills. However, you are shooting yourself in the foot if you already cant support all your games and you continue to focus on making more.

Solution: Completely upgrade Pocket Legends. This will be a very difficult and lengthy process but overall will pay off and here is why. If you upgrade the graphics, and bring back support you can release Pocket Legends on the app store again as lets say Pocket Legends 2.0 (name doesn't matter just saying). The hype from the release will give you the new player demand you desire, your already loyal players will of course be brought over, and your fans that abandoned Pocket Legends for Arcane Legends may very well come back and create the new money bags game you desire. With my game design background (though limited and not done professionally) this is possible. You can bring all maps, expansions, items, characters, achievements, quests, etc over to the new platform and reuse a ton of your old coding to make it easier on yourself. The point wouldn't be to make a new game but upgrade your old one. You can't deviate from the currently style of game play Pocket Legends offers because you will lose your dedicated members. By this I specifically mean making it Platinum Dependant like Arcane Legends. Basically a graphic overhaul and possibly an expansion soon after. Considering Pocket Legends is only at 76 cap right now as well there is still plenty of room for future expansions to make this effort worth it over the long run. Examples of this method working for another company would be Jagex's major success after releasing their first platform of runescape classic and upgrading to runescape and then again revamping to runescape combat evolve and now yet again they are releasing runescape 3. This is an example of a company staying dedicated to their player community and focussing on their single game keeping it competitive with other games by continually updating its graphics options. Learn from their success and your own successes and failures and please come back to glory.

I personally over my 3 years of playing this game have spent $1000 and a ridiculous amount of time leveling, questing, helping the community both in game and on the forums, and my greatest fear is that eventually this game will be dropped all together. And considering you felt it was necessary to post this thread many other players within this community feel exactly the same way. That should be your sign right there.

Please let me know what you think. Also do you take volunteer game developers? I have several hours I can dedicate a week.

Sincerely AvidLegend

Yes, but what if it doesn't bring back the oldies? Or doesn't reap the rewards???? Then what? Spacetime will lose all that money down the drain... And then what? In their mind, PL is just an old dying cash cow. You milk it for as long as you can, and then it dies. OK? There are newer, better cows that produce more milk. Which will get more money? Spending a lot of $ to re-energize a dying game (What they did introducing rhino and fox) or putting all that $ into developing a better, more advanced game that will attract new players? Most of the "oldies" have quit, and aren't even checking on the game anymore. STG still has to make $$$ you know... They've got families to support...

[AvidLegend]

Yes, but what if it doesn't bring back the oldies? Or doesn't reap the rewards???? Then what? Spacetime will lose all that money down the drain... And then what? In their mind, PL is just an old dying cash cow. You milk it for as long as you can, and then it dies. OK? There are newer, better cows that produce more milk. Which will get more money? Spending a lot of $ to re-energize a dying game (What they did introducing rhino and fox) or putting all that $ into developing a better, more advanced game that will attract new players? Most of the "oldies" have quit, and aren't even checking on the game anymore. STG still has to make $$$ you know... They've got families to support...

Putting any new game on the market is a risk of losing money. There is no guarantee it will be worth it. You would essentially be taking the same risk but you will already have dedicated fans to start off with. The rhino and fox were a flop because it was released the same time as a new game. They need to learn to stop competing with themselves. It's like opening two Mcdonalds next door to each other till one goes out of business because it's on the less popular side of the street then opening another on the other corner while remodeling the previous one with the stupid idea that it won't cause a conflict of business. Pick a new location (meaning all together different type of game) or stick to keeping what is already there afloat.

[RATTANSINGHNAGRA]

@samhayne

I get it you guys are $$$ orientated . With that being said, why would you not allow us to volunteer our time, energy, knowledge, and $$ to create a new cap in PL? I dont see whats wrong with this idea, everyone wins. please reply back to me.

[Crashy]

Hmm,
I just think sts should continue working on pl,
A cap, pvp balance, new vanities, new map, new drop, or quest.
As long as they don't just quit on pl because many of us have spent a lot of time in pl and spent a lot of cash on the plat.
I just dnt think it fair I leave the game with nothing new and have a few hundred $ sitting in someone's account when the games dead.

[Suchislife]

I understand, it's all comes down to $$$ and I guess you guys have to eat a living. But I really want you guys to stop making new games for a bit and focus on PL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LovingLu]

Suggestions:

1. Put a little money to advertise PL on google, facebook, twitter or anything else. Pocket legends are losing people! We need new members to join in.

2. Make some benefits for newly joined ppls and keep them in PL! For example, put some basic awards when they lvl up (basic sets, vanity.etc.) so as to let them feel survivable and hopefull. Snice the econemy of PL goes worse and worse, it is not that easy for a newly joined ppl to offer even an endgame set.

3. More teamworks in game and chart platform. It is easy to give up if you play alone. Charting platforms with rooms in whole game for example.

4. Re-call losed players! Perhaps new contents or new caps will do.

[dudetus]

Thank you for this outreach to us Sam, I've always known u were doing the best u could.

I speak for myself, but I think at least some of the "veterans" as myself, feel the same way as I do.

Pocket Legends is a one of a kind game for me. During these 3+ years I've played this game, I've found a gaming experience like nothing before. Simply because the community aspect is unique. I've made actual friends via this game and Ik that even if I quit PL completely, I would still have them as my friends. Even right now, I have like 5 kik discussions going on with my PL friends. I've played quite a few games during my gaming life (swtor and soldat as the mains) but PL is something way beyond them. I would surely have quit any other game that didn't get "meaningful" updates in a year but not PL.

What I'm trying to say is that for u guys in STG PL is something special and it has a spot in ur hearts. It's the same for majority of us PL players.

[acefoxx]

I would suggest put some ability to our pets, you guys done it in AL. Shouldnt be much work in PL, but I am not sure.
This will keep us busy training them or some sort. Boost up sales in plat.
Pvp with pets ?maybe...
Devs show up more in game will make us happy with some wave to get vanity.
Other than that, keep on making money with your biz. You need to feed 35 + staffs every month. Some wl never understand. Explain or not.

Keep it up.

Best wishes.

[Doodlebeast]

Ty for the info. I'll stop complaining. For now. At least. I hope.

[MightyMicah]

I think I speak for just about everyone when I say that this was very much so needed and appreciated! Thanks so much, Samhayne!

[Roberto077]

Hi, I do agree that it was a nice idea to put in Rhino and foxes, but the problem to get more new players hooked is not the lack of content anymore, it is the lack of beauty in the game. The reason why so many people stick around in PL is the mechanics are extremely basic and easy to understand, and it is super fast-paced. It's like the Call of Duty of mobile MMO's, game wise. However, the amount of people who will actually stay is very small, reason being because the game doesn't look good enough. I'm pretty sure many people stay in AL because the graphics there look so much better.

If you just updated PL graphic-wise, I'm sure that it would both hook people and make them stay, much faster than AL does, because AL seems to be more complex than PL. I think this is the basic problem that you guys have with us now. You think that making new games might make you more money, and it could, but you also don't know what may happen if you make PL look better. The game is just so basic and addictive once you get started and are able to ignore the mediocre graphical content in the game.

In fact, you did once update the graphics of Pocket Legends (from bubble heads to the more sleek design of characters) and maybe the landscapes in PL. It wasn't a big change, but it was a graphical change nonetheless. Anyway...all this build up was to ask this simple question:

What are the statistics of jump in customer purchases or players online after the "big" graphic update of PL?

I'm sure someone has said what I'm about to tell you, but I don't feel like looking.

Game design is a very difficult task in different aspects of the game, but there is only one part that we truly see, that would be the artwork. As you put it, artwork is what will drive PL back up, but have you ever done 3D design? It takes an extremely long time to even do some of the more simple pieces of the game, not including the adaptions to object animation and movement.

In fact, I assume most of the coding employees at STS have experience with designing the models and character portraits using the designing program. For example, if you have ever played or heard of League of Legends (currently the most played game in the world), then you may know that 40% of Riot Games staff are artists that design skins and champions to play in the game. If you are an active player of LoL then you would know that it takes about a month for a new skin to be implemented, and that's just ONE CHARACTER.

Now imagine the work that it would take to re-skin all of Pocket Legends. That's thousands of items, dozens of NPC's, hundreds of maps and levels, 60 abilities, and many more objects and details of the game that would be repainted and constructed just to get maybe a few new players and change nothing for repeated customers. Another words, we wouldn't see anything until +2015.

Anyways, STS has pretty much done what I have stated above, but in a different format called Arcane Legends. Check it out.

EDIT: I'll add some more stuff later on other points regarding the thread.

[Zeus]

@Sam Mucho Gracias for taking the time to write this. It certainly helps me see things from your perspective. Still, I believe you guys should make one final push at fixing PL. Balance the classes, fix the gear, make Elite Rings available for new players, and you can just let the game sit there for a while. Right now PL feels like a story without an ending, and you as the author should tie up the "loose ends". Making new games is fun, yes, but we as players HATE to start over, kinda like what you guys experienced with Blackstar. The only reason I love MMOs opposed to something like Doodle Jump is that everytime I play, I'm progressing. But if I moved to AL what other games you decide to make in the future, I would have to start over n over n over again.

@EFM I think 3 piece rings should be made obtainable as long as we gain the required 100k exp. Elite vanities should not be awarded so players who did the grinding before have something extra. Founders will always be exclusive as you won't be able to complete the requirement of "joining" during the first week again.

@Avid Sam made it pretty obvious that investing money into AL is more worthwhile. Yes they can take a gamble and update PL but why would they if the success chance of AL is higher? And you Runescape 3 example is irrelevant. During RS 2, worlds are almost always full but after RS 3 and the EOC, it would be rare to find a world with over 500 players.

Slight change… 3 piece requires 300k XP, 100k for each cap.