Gear vs skill in pvp

[regizakirs.rs]

I don't pvp because I don't have all the necessary gear especially end game twinking. I've read quite a few threads about people saying that it's the gear why some people win. I've also read where there some players are skilled enough to beat maxed out players. What I would like to get here is the pvp community to give me there assessment on this. So twinks which one is it and why? Please remember let's keep it friendly thanks guys and gals

[Arrowz]

Twinks it is 50-50 gear > skills. Some players with singe or samael are hard to beat 1v1 but many of them suck in wars. In wars however having skill makes a big difference. I have a lvl 17 rogue and im better than some lvl 18s with singe in wars because they have no clue how to fight. Even during the breeze era, my guild beat a team of 4 tanks and a rogue with 5 breeze when we had only 2 breeze. Because you cant be oneshot at twink levels, skill plays a bigger factor

[regizakirs.rs]

Cool

[Zeus]

Twinks it is 50-50 gear > skills. Some players with singe or samael are hard to beat 1v1 but many of them suck in wars. In wars however having skill makes a big difference. I have a lvl 17 rogue and im better than some lvl 18s with singe in wars because they have no clue how to fight. Even during the breeze era, my guild beat a team of 4 tanks and a rogue with 5 breeze when we had only 2 breeze. Because you cant be oneshot at twink levels, skill plays a bigger factor

You'd be surprised how much skill end game takes too. I'd say it's a lot more than twinking. The problem is the people who lack gear blame it on gear usually instead of looking to see what they're doing wrong. Yes, gear plays a factor but it's not entirely what people claim.

[Overweightank]

You'd be surprised how much skill end game takes too. I'd say it's a lot more than twinking. The problem is the people who lack gear blame it on gear usually instead of looking to see what they're doing wrong. Yes, gear plays a factor but it's not entirely what people claim.

Zeus is right, I done twinking and currently end game pvp, Twink is gear based, not that much skill needed. End game is all skill, Its all about skill in end game, gear doesnt need to be tip top to be good

Also end game is something me and many would recommend to try.

[Hilyana]

End game is all skill, Its all about skill

I disagree.. A skilled player with ~mythic items vs a maxed player, it would be 50/50. There are many (over)geared players who win because of gear and nothing else, especially rogue vs rogue...

So yes, being skilled does help a lot at endgame, but it's still gear based. Except in 5v5 where the skills mostly win, in 1v1 it's another story.

[Zeus]

I disagree.. A skilled player with ~mythic items vs a maxed player, it would be 50/50. There are many (over)geared players who win because of gear and nothing else, especially rogue vs rogue...

So yes, being skilled does help a lot at endgame, but it's still gear based. Except in 5v5 where the skills mostly win, in 1v1 it's another story.

It's the same thing at twinking. In a 1v1, gear is extremely likely to prevail. I was more saying from a FFA or clashing standpoint.

[raw]

I disagree.. A skilled player with ~mythic items vs a maxed player, it would be 50/50. There are many (over)geared players who win because of gear and nothing else, especially rogue vs rogue...

So yes, being skilled does help a lot at endgame, but it's still gear based. Except in 5v5 where the skills mostly win, in 1v1 it's another story.

In end game, there is a huge range of gear. There are rogues running around with 3.2k health, 1300 armor, and 500 damage fighting rogues with 5k health, 1800 armor, and 750 damage. If you assume that the players fighting are somewhat similarly geared then skill matters more since end game is essentially one hit KO for rogues. The only exception to this rule is Nekro which is OP as bawls. An example of a player that exemplifies this is, as I've stated before, Hilyani. When we used to pvp together she would run around with 3800 health, 1400 armor taking out fully maxed sns ring rogues because of the simple fact that she knows how to evade attacks, and she knows when to attack. A lot of rogues in end game just spam attacks without strategy, and you'll see that this is quite often the case for maxed players.

In twinking levels, skill > gear because there is less of a range of gear, and because fights are longer. Players actually have a chance to strategize.

[Kingofninjas]

Skill definitely plays a role in both twinking and end game PvP. However, the role of gear is not absent in end game PvP. You simply cannot expect a rogue using exped bow, mythic ring and a legendary amulet/fang to beat a maxed out rogue with imbued set, arcane ring and mythic bow/daggers. It simply will not happen 1 on 1 unless the maxed out rogue is afk.

I am not even maxed out, but I have enough health to usually withstand 1 combo from a legendary rogue, so even of they jump me, I usually don't die and then I can shoot a quick uncharged combo and often kill them. When I win like that its 100% gear and no skill.

Another example I can give yesterday when I was having a friendly 2 on 2 with Zeus. At that time I was using a exped bow and a full mythic ring, including ring and new amulet. With exped bow my damage was pretty much a joke, about 475 in PvP room, which was now where near enough to be able to 1 hit or even combo kill Zeus. He was nice enough not to use nekro's AA but if he had I am sure I would have been unable to kill him a single time. Sure, there were multiple times when he killed me before I even landed a shot, but there were some instances where I landed a aimed on him and he responded with a crit over 5k. I had to rely on things like panic, which involves little skill to exploit, and trulle, which requires considerably more skill to use effectively. I still got crushed though and though gear definitely played a part in it, it was in no way the only factor.

Gear also plays a large role on playstyle, which is nothing but skill. Personally, if I know I have considerably better gear than my opponent rogues/mages, I often make risky and sometimes idiotic rushes that I only pull off because of my higher gear level. If I tried any of those rushes on an evenly or better geared team, I wouldn't make it 10 meters. Same can be said of many geared rogues. We know we have much better gear, that we can tank 1 combo and be pretty sure of killing the enemy with ours, so we play accordingly.

[raw]

Yep the disparity between players in end game is ridiculous. I honestly believe that a fully maxed rogue with nekro can win a 3v1 against full legendary (non imbued) rogues. It's that cray.

Not go veer too off topic, but this whole conversation brings to light the issue of balance in end game. Rather than focusing on releasing mid-tier gear for the average player, STG has been focusing on buffing and offering gear for the top 1% which is supported by the last few posts.

The whole gear v skill issue is complicated, and people will have different opinions, but I think that KingofNinjas' post is spot on from an end game perspective.

I'm curious as to what twinking skill v gear is like now... since I haven't twinked in over a year

[Ravager]

3 main factors when it comes to winning. I play endgame. Its going to be gear, skill and luck. If you fight a max gear person and you're not, you're going to need lots of skill and luck. Higher skilled person, you'll need higher gear than him and lots of luck. Etc. You get the point. If you fight a person with equal gear and lose, maybe they have more skill or luck than you. Proper use of your environment, I consider, is a skill.

[regizakirs.rs]

3 main factors when it comes to winning. I play endgame. Its going to be gear, skill and luck. If you fight a max gear person and you're not, you're going to need lots of skill and luck. Higher skilled person, you'll need higher gear than him and lots of luck. Etc. You get the point. If you fight a person with equal gear and lose, maybe they have more skill or luck than you. Proper use of your environment, I consider, is a skill.

Well stated

[Kingofninjas]

3 main factors when it comes to winning. I play endgame. Its going to be gear, skill and luck. If you fight a max gear person and you're not, you're going to need lots of skill and luck. Higher skilled person, you'll need higher gear than him and lots of luck. Etc. You get the point. If you fight a person with equal gear and lose, maybe they have more skill or luck than you. Proper use of your environment, I consider, is a skill.

Using the environment can only get you so far. Even if you hide and snipe, with minimum gear you are rarely, if at all, going to be able to beat a maxed out rogue. Many low geared rogues also have as low as 25-30% crit whereas maxed out ones have up to 50%. What I am trying to say ud that gear even affects luck, so there is only 1 aspect other than gear, which is skill.

[Imsofancy]

does not matter how skilled you are, being ganged by 5 tanks will kill you. unless ofc you own a arcane deary. LOL@pvp

On a serious note. I think that twinks need to have a higher degree of skill then end gamers because you have to make a skill build specific to your lv and amount of skill points available. When you pvp at low lvs every skill point needs to have a purpose.

[Ravager]

Using the environment can only get you so far. Even if you hide and snipe, with minimum gear you are rarely, if at all, going to be able to beat a maxed out rogue. Many low geared rogues also have as low as 25-30% crit whereas maxed out ones have up to 50%. What I am trying to say ud that gear even affects luck, so there is only 1 aspect other than gear, which is skill.

Yeah. I know. Just stating that more so as a side note and not as a main point. Still need other aspects like luck. Like you stated, with such low crit, you're gonna need lots of luck to crit a few times in a row. LOTS of it.

[Kriticality]

There is a learning curve for sure. If you've never really PVP'd before or even if you have, gear isn't enough. I started at level 41 PVP and went through numerous deaths before I started to understand anything. I was full mythic and either mythic daggers/bow. Rav is right about those elements. You need a combination of any two of the three elements to win. Luck/Gear may help you in the short term but you'll be exploited. Obv Gear/Skill is optimal. You will definitely run into players at end game that are incredibly difficult to kill. Ravager is one of them. My point is, gear definitely helps, but the difference is quite clear between a meh arcane ring player and a very skilled one.

And to Raw's comment about Nekro, it's insane.

[Zeus]

There is a learning curve for sure. If you've never really PVP'd before or even if you have, gear isn't enough. I started at level 41 PVP and went through numerous deaths before I started to understand anything. I was full mythic and either mythic daggers/bow. Rav is right about those elements. You need a combination of any two of the three elements to win. Luck/Gear may help you in the short term but you'll be exploited. Obv Gear/Skill is optimal. You will definitely run into players at end game that are incredibly difficult to kill. Ravager is one of them. My point is, gear definitely helps, but the difference is quite clear between a meh arcane ring player and a very skilled one.

And to Raw's comment about Nekro, it's insane.

Agreed about Nekro. In the hands of a skilled rogue, the rogue rains death on everything that comes across its path.

[Kriticality]

Agreed about Nekro. In the hands of a skilled rogue, the rogue rains death on everything that comes across its path.

Change your mind yet about selling me that fossil?

[Zeus]

Change your mind yet about selling me that fossil?

Not with the twink tourney allowing arcane pets, haha.

[Kingofninjas]

IMO, 2 nekros should take up 1 player spot on a team lol.