-The time difference didn't change. Read it again, this time more closely. Please tell me what your fastest T3 run is with your friends (which is not an all rogue party). Is it way faster than 8:30? I'm guessing it isn't. The point hidden in here is that with two rogues shadow-piercing the boss, a warrior stunning, and a mage handling the vines, you're not going to be much slower than an all rogue team (45 second difference for me).
-I'm agreeing with you about Arena. I'm trying to lay out all of the facts to show a complete picture, not build a case by hiding important details. Arena is definitely made for all rogue parties. It's beyond stupid that warriors can be one hit by the Arena bosses and can't hold aggro. Mages are so much more useful than warriors in Arena, but they still clearly play second fiddle. In total agreement.
-OK. This makes more sense. In your post, you compared a pink rogue with a max-geared rogue. That's why I was confused. I still don't agree with it, but oh well. Please make a rogue with an alias. Don't tell your friends. I'll donate all the pink gear. Try to run T3 and let me know how overpowered rogues are. I think you'll have a new perspective.
-PVP is relevant because it flips the pyramid. But if you don't want to talk about PvP because you stick to PvE, I get it. PvP isn't for everyone.
Last edited by Edward Coug; 06-23-2015 at 03:24 PM.
Zeus and e'dria,
I am not experienced player as you guys are in Endgame PVP. If you say mage is OP in endgame [clash not vs] then I will accept that. But I don't think it's the same case in twink level.
I don't wanna argue more but I will say same thing again. Rogue damage output and mages shield , I will take these in equivalent aspect. The thing I have been complaining about is mages lifegiver skill compare to rogue health pack and warrior's juggernaut.Everyone knows that lifegiver skill is so underpowered in comparison to rogue and warrior healing skill. And I am against giving rogue their damage back because its gonna be one shot kill if they get more damage.
Mages need a boost at twinking lv pls no one can denay that mages twinks below lv 31 have a ridiculous heal % while rogues have more than 100% heal in all packs and tanks have 5ticks of insane heal plus a 3 second inmunity(even more than mages shield) so maybe if STS change heal skill for mages will be really apreciated maybe make it like 80%hp or something. Ty
Back to what I said, there's mages who are op, I've never seen a Mage at end game I'm just stating that at low levels mages are basically not even useful, I've had rogues that don't have 4 times less of my health and damage and they still so how magically manage to 1 hit me .
If I die... I'll be legendary 😖
Now, now. You sure love exaggerating. I can show you a tank/mage/rogue/rogue party with consistent 8-9 minutes PT3 times, screenshots are somewhere here on one of the contest threads (Tour of Arlor I think). No arcane rings, only one arcane pet as far as I remember. I'd like you to show me a similarly geared all rogue party (or 3 rogues, 1 mage - whichever you prefer) doing 5-6 minutes on average.
My guess is that Avikk's average runs are longer than he'd care to admit. I can tell you what you need to do to speed them up.
-Believe it or not, your rogues are slowing you down. Tell them to shadow-pierce the boss, if their gear allows it. (If their gear is good enough to do this but they are worried about dying, tell them to play as a mage or warrior. It's far cheaper.) Have the weakest rogue stun the boss. (Or invite a warrior. Won't sacrifice much time. I promise.)
-You have to handle the vines by yourself. No excuses. Breeze helps.
-If you really want to speed up your runs and are feeling beastly, don't skip the hard mobs. Kill everything (excluding the parked giants) that is on the way to the boss. That way, you don't have to go into the side room to the left of the boss room.
-You can also shave a tiny bit of time off your run by leaving your lep in your inventory. I get far more elite planar chests without it, anyway. (Although I rerolled into a locked the other day without a lep equipped zzzzzz.)
If you after doing this, you beat my 8:30 2 rogue, 1 mage, 1 war T3 run with your 3 rogue, 1 mage party (no elixirs of course), let me be the first to congratulate you.
Last edited by Edward Coug; 06-23-2015 at 05:58 PM.
Timers were on for Tombs during that week of ToA. I'm too lazy to search through that monstrous thread, but I will, if avikk accepts the challenge. Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can do a 7-minute run with the same tank/mage/rogue/rogue party now, as we have all geared up since then. But then avikk will have to beat the current lb record to prove his point. Ok, end of offtopic.
That's impossible. 790 damage and barely 5k HP is about the limit without elix and it requires either sns or nekro to achieve. We're talking about 5-6 paras+ and the rest, eyes.
Maximum non elix damage is about 850 with full para but that's no longer a possibility. Atm, best you'll find is below 840 and that's with a huge HP loss (4.4-4.5k).
Edit:
Nightshade excluded, anyone who can afford to be maxed out would never opt to run with NS instead of Nekro except from very specific low level maps.
Last edited by Madnex; 06-24-2015 at 08:34 AM.
Off topic again. This thread is getting a bit too heated Anyhow if I had the resources to switch to a maxed mage I would. A mage with 50% crit is a beast :-)
Avikk,
-Um, 45 seconds is less than a minute. So I'm not sure how I am being inconsistent. (8:30 - 7:45 = 45 seconds). Just clarifying. Not knocking you.
-I didn't switch from mage to rogue. I started out as a warrior, a class that I've advocated for a PvE buff all along. Even so, I've had great success getting good times with warriors in my party.
-"It's okay for a DPS class to have the armour and hp to tank almost every boss in endgame(of how a handful of rogues who have told me its easier to solo arena and elite wilds with legendaries(blinky as a pet) than an almost full mythic arcane pet rogue)."
You compared a pink rogue with a maxed-out rogue. That's why I was confused. I understand now that you meant to say maxed out mage. Again, just clarifying.
-I don't think it's easy to solo Arena as a rogue with all pink gear. I still don't. I don't know. Maybe I'm a noob. Probably so, lol.
-You don't park the giants? Really? I've found the runs to be much faster and safer when you park the giants, but it could just be me.
-There is much debate about whether you are better off using a lep in tombs. (I think there is a thread where Kalizza wrote about it a while ago.) I once saw someone reroll into two elite planar chests on one drop. However, I've rerolled out of more chests than into them. This of course will be a moot point soon as locks are being retired Thursday. (Finally!)
-I don't much care if I get called a noob. I stand by my 8:30 time with 2 rogues, 1 mage, and 1 warrior. Not trying to mislead anyone by posting fake times. I'm just trying to show everyone that at least for me, having an all rogue party doesn't make a huge difference, and it's actually a more dangerous run.
-I'll end by saying this. Avikk, I've run with you. I think you're good, and you've always been nice to me in parties. I don't mean any of this to be hostile. If anything came off as condescending, I'm sorry. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I just really want to dispel the false notion that all rogue parties are far superior to parties where all classes are represented (unless, of course, the rogues are built like Zeus). Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think so.
Last edited by Edward Coug; 06-24-2015 at 11:47 AM.
It's heated, because it's the same 'rogue legends' bs. And that's getting old to be honest. People see the incredible lb times of those uber geared 4-rogue parties - arcane rings, gazillion paras, SnS stacking and whatnot - and go 'ooh rogues so op'. I'm pretty sure that the overwhelming majority of all the possible endgame 4-rogue parties in this game can't even touch those times multiplied by two (e.g. a record of 4 mins - most 4-rogue parties can't get under 8 mins).
Yes, it is true that any full mythic 4 rogue with arcane pets pt could do a 7-8 minute run, however:
1. They have to know what they are doing , e.g. no charching of skills, using piercer all the time.
2. They will have to pierce during the boss fight and this will mean anytging between 1-5 ankhs only for the boss part. This in contrast to them being able to go deathless otherwise. Anyhow it is fun to do it that way but the ankh cost would be too high.
P.S. Unless the pt has one, or preferably broken pets, aka Nekro. But then again they would not fall into the decently geared category would they. Further the OP claims this is generally valid, where as being that fast in 4 rogue pt is only possible after a certain level of gear and skill, which is not the average. And lastly I still maintain that 3 rogue and one mage is fastest pt.
Egads. I'm so embarrassed. I've been going around thinking I was half decent for so long.
But seriously. I've been in parties with some very good well-geared players, and everyone is thrilled when we break 8 minutes.
I think the real elephants in the room are the overpowered pets. I don't actually have a problem with them, but they are what turn a high damage, moderate health/armor rogue into a tank and allow for crazy insta-kill banish stacking. How many rogues have Nekro and SNS and a gazillion para gems? Not many.
Bookmarks