As I could understand, this topic caused by some complains about rogue's 'cleaning speed', so I don't see how 2-3seconds of immortality would help it, damage of razor is a joke also, you can increase razor damage by 1000% and will change nothing.
I'll bring some suggestions/thoughts/complains what would improve rogue's cleaning speed and survivable on rogue:
1) cleaning speed (mobs): only 2 things which matter for it: 1) HOW FAST rogue can activate core procs (weapon, armor, artifact, if its about 86 arcanes) and 2) what rogue will do after procs got activated.
-What can be improved in razor shield about activating procs faster: make bigger area of this skill, make it hit faster, it can deal 1 damage per tick, but make it damaging enemies for example 4 times (or more) per second and in bigger area, chance to bleed currently 25% (50 with perk), can be improved to 50/100%.
(What could be improved in other skills: some perk of normal shadow piercer multiple damage could deal like 10 hits instead current 5, and with increased speed ofc... Just compare count of hits to other classes before getting proc of weapon: warrior axe mastery 1 point = fast 10 hits on single target + warrior's windmill is like 5 hits on cast (if 5 enemies around) and repeating it for several times. Mage just use uncharged fireball and get all procs easily, but mage has also other skills to get procs... Rogue lacking hits to activate procs fast...charging noxious bolt which hits just 1 enemy on impact and then some slow dot isn't best thing to do)
In general, I think it would be nice to get current procs activated by any 1st hit with 100% chance on all classes (if they arent on cooldown) instead talking about what rogue lacking etc..., atleast 81 arc weapons (bcs still no new weapon), 86 arc helm/armor/artifact. Kraken daggers require 15 hits to get guaranteed proc, so using normal piercer (6 hits) + charged shadow storm shot not even guarantees to get daggers proc cuz sss not always has a lot targers to hit (talking about 5 mobs in start of indigo map as example), 2 other classes easily get proc of weapon on those mobs. Trying using charged nox bolt which won't even hit few targets on impact is waste time x2 (charging + waiting when poison starts damage)
-What classes do on mobs part after core procs got activated:
Mage kraken staff grants like 500% stacking dmg, multiplied by arcane armor by x3, so its minimum 1500% damage he get on rusk gun attacks, which are affected by %haste. mage can even run with aquaris staff.
Warrior class - no need describe I hope?...
Rogue? Has Rusk bow with 3 targets only in front of rogue, bows attacks are not affected by %haste, so this bow isn't useful at all, just for damage stat, and it push enemies? lol... also kraken daggers proc grants only 100-150% stacking damage (compare it to 500% from krak staff...), rogue has only shadow shorm shot to use after procs activated, but its so long cooldown (compared to mage's fireball) and normal piercer to kill some single mobs or to get closer to mob and kill by kraken dagg/new arti proc, everything else useless, its all about daggers + arti proc.
I would also suggest to bring something like rusk daggers which will PULL enemies in big area like rusk sword doing by regular attacks and without cooldown. (Warriors might get op rusk aegis which will PUSH 3 enemies away and without affected by %haste, just to feel their current 'balance'
)
2) Talk about survival abilities on rogue:
Razor mastery 10% STACKING damage reduce?
Reality of this mastery: pet with 25% stacking damage reduce in HB + any buff like star beast set proc (60% stacking dmg reduce) or mephisto (50% stacking dmg reduce), or kraken daggers (50% stacking dmg reduce), and there a lot more sources of it, already putting %damage reduce over cap (70%), so 10% stacking dmg reduce from razor gives only 1,1% in fact (instead 10%)... and for this we spend 10 points?
Make it 50% NON STACKING damage reduce on 10/10 razor mastery, warrior has 60/40% non stacking damage reduce on juggernaut with few points, mage has similar on shield (for those who are clueless about stacking/nonstacking %dmgReduce, try learn more and make some math, before you put comments like 'nonstacking dmg reduce is useless' etc). So it would be good to have on rogue too... but again, it has nothing to do with cleaning speed in my opinion. If rogue dies before procs got activated, I'm so sorry about it lol.
If anyone cares about pvp and balancing classes for pvp there: remove all procs, adjust damage of skills, done. If you don't agree with it for some reason, i'll bring few facts: 1) ATM pvp is more "active" at lvls below 76 (where procs aren't crazy; look all 81 gears are cheap but there 0 pvp, guess why) 2) pvp was more active in general before 81 expansion, think about it too. Also, I'm not suggesting removing awakes and pets from pvp, so it would be still based on player's invests. For those who 'care' about sts money from pvp - they already aren't getting it. And if awakes will still work in pvp, it would bring sts some money; also arcane gears has much better stats still; I'm not suggesting another honor pvp.
Announced by sts 2-3 seconds of immortality on razor in pvp case will only make rogue survive 5 seconds instead 3 (2-3sec + 2 seconds of glowstik aa) then result same, it will be helpful against mages sure, against warriors not much, also playing rogue vs rogue would become so bad for me, immortality on razor in rog vs rog will be more like game who has better ping... Well, I didn't pvp since 81 expansion (kraken amulet...), just few duels against sb chainsword (trying all possbible setups on rogue), was enough to understand that pvp is not good for rogues at all atm.
Also, in my opinion (if sts really want improve rogue), it would be more wise to ask actual good rogues who proved their skill/knowledge on this class (for example some timed runners, I mean normal timed runners, not pinata LBs like orrick lol; or ask some temple top10-20 rogues, or some chosen by other factors good rogues, and hope that factor will not be 'who bought more plat'). There's no point ask some clueless random warriors about rogue/razor, warriors who only coming here with hate about rogues and can't even learn their own class. There's also no point asking some cheap or new rogues about their survivable, which are complaining about dying while running with low armor/hp ms sets at endgame maps ("op" ms nox set, "op" holley set, "op" zaarus set or even lower and then "we need immortality").
Somebody mentioned current 'balance' and brought up cursed woods - giants as example. I finished it on 3 classes without elemental sets (before new arcanes got released):
mobs part was similar for all classes (warrior ofc a bit better cuz has pull).
boss part:
-on warrior I finished it with 3k str + krakens + sb set + 'nerfed' neptaris.
-on mage I finished it having 3.3k int (krakens + sb set + rusk gun).
-on rogue I had to get 4k dex (rusk bow + krakens + sb set, same items as mage, just better jewels/awakes) but with 3.8k dex I couldn't do it (rogue is my main class for many years).
Rogue was the most uncomfortable and slowest class to do that boss because: warrior can pull boss by axe to avoid debuffing explodes, mage has ranged skill + attacks (lightning, curse, rusk gun attacks), rogue had to follow boss (rogues damage deals is aimed + piercer, all other skills not damaging, rogue is not range class at all, as somebody mentioned haha), so had to control where boss goes by running away if boss goes to corners, couldn't fight there because boss will stack explosions there and rip.
If we would talk about including here elemental sets - it would only disadvantage rogue even more, since those sets are dealing same damage on all classes and affected only by %damage %bd (%ed not working in woods) and %crit dmg. So, rogue has the lowest %damage from weapons procs (don't tell to proc pisces lol, is impossible), means lowest damage from elemental set procs. Still want to talk about balance?
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Originally Posted by Lazzer
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