What the new update has brought forth...

[Samhayne]

- The problem is that he/she is praising their past accomplishments, which were praiseworthy - the newest PL levels though have been entirely underwhelming and he/she has indicated that he/she has no played them

It is a matter of perspective WhoIsThis. I appreciate your thoughts and the time you've taken to express them. However, I would say that Nuri's and Mt. Fang were pretty darn cool - especially Nuri's. I remember well when it came out! I loved the challenges and the unique story. We know that we won't please everyone everytime with what we do. It's also ok to have differing opinions

[Nightarcher]

Geez, this is the biggest collection of long posts I've seen. Here are my comments from the SL forums:

STS is expanding. Their games are getting more publicity, and the scale of their responsibilities is growing larger. The pressure to create original content in SL, keep PL going, and release DL soon is enormous, and they're definitely working hard.

The downside? With expansion comes less ability to address individual members/groups of the community and their concerns and feedback. It's something we're seeing more of, and something we will just have to get used to (to an extent). The devs aren't ignoring us; prioritizing is very difficult with all the pressure put on you by all affected parties, even moreso than the tasks themselves. Fixing bugs is much easier than changing a whole chunk of content and having to deal with all the repercussions.

--

Summary: It's inevitable. It's not the result (mostly) of players' or devs' mistakes. Even though Sam may go and do a stellar job responding community feedback, many things won't change no matter how much we hate them. (e.g.: 100% luck pots) It's a lot more like real life, actually.

[WhoIsThis]

It is a matter of perspective WhoIsThis. I appreciate your thoughts and the time you've taken to express them. However, I would say that Nuri's and Mt. Fang were pretty darn cool - especially Nuri's. I remember well when it came out! I loved the challenges and the unique story. We know that we won't please everyone everytime with what we do. It's also ok to have differing opinions

I have already indicated why I feel otherwise. Nuri's:


1. The environment did not look "new"; it looked like the old Forest backgrounds in Symphony, old bog backgrounds, etc. Madness looked like Alien Oasis. The others, such as Lion's Den looked new enough.

2. The monsters were not new in the case of Symphony; they said the same things as before

3. They just hit harder, with nothing more interesting (ex: in Lost Expedition, monsters could freeze you)

4. The bosses said the same things that prior bosses in the Sewers (ex: Bandit King and Queen, Goblin King, etc) said; and King Mynas was reused for the Snake Charmer

5. There was less creativity overall it seemed

Please see:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-for-this-year





I want to draw your attention to the way that this thread has been proceeding.

1. All SL players more or less are satisfied because the new level is quite good

2. All PL players so far have agreed with Apollo or at least the bulk of what he said

3. Players who have indicated that they have played both the SL and PL end game agree that SL's endgame was much more satisfying because it brought something new to the table. Mines for example that had to be deactivated. Could we perhaps see something similar in PL - a magic mine? By contrast, PL's latest levels bring ... the same monsters that hit harder and have more hp, with nothing else.

[Samhayne]

What about the insta kill issue in Nuri's ? It's different and it helps promote good teamwork. Sure, not everyone liked it, but the monsters have different abilities.

As for the re-use of textures and audio, it's because the game is so freakin big that we're up against size limitations.

Again, it's ok to agree to disagree. Obviously, I'm biased

[Moogerfooger]

What about the insta kill issue in Nuri's ? It's different and it helps promote good teamwork. Sure, not everyone liked it, but the monsters have different abilities.
)

Or helped promote plat-for-revive, depending on one's perspective

I'm bowing out of these threads. I just get worked up over them, on both sides of the coin. The forums are a giant ball of drama right now, of which I have helped contribute to and that is no bueno. I've put my two cents out there, for what they are worth.

Lost in all of the drama is Ladyhadassa trying to do something really nice for Xmas.

[WhoIsThis]

The instant kill issue I think, felt as if it were well ... uninspired. So far, there has been no praise of it.

There is a reason why.

An instant kill needs an if statement, an a line of code altering the damage the monster does.

A mine needs for the art department to come up with a new model and texture, plus a script to implement the mine, and another to disarm it. I can see though how space limitations could affect this one.

Finally, the mines were game changing. The vents in Balefort Sewers forced people to change how they moved as well. There was very little change to the one hit kill procs in Nuri. Tanks often died in one hit. Nobody tried to coordinate as a team because of it. The one hit proc by contrast was time activated. It meant we had to either kill fast or use an elixir (which worsened the perceptions of elixirs as a necessity). The only reason why to coordinate as a team was for fast runs.

[Nightarcher]

Insti-kill Mines: People actually have to implement real tactics and skill! Elixir-addicts now have to pay attention too.

[Rodvik]

Rodvik here is a pretty good example of some of the newer players. To his credit, his post is very civil and well written - among the best I have seen from the newer players.

Thoughts:
- Much lower expectations for new levels than we have
- The problem is that he/she is praising their past accomplishments, which were praiseworthy - the newest PL levels though have been entirely underwhelming and he/she has indicated that he/she has no played them
- Much easier to please, perhaps because he/she was not here during the prime of PL
- Assumes so far that all of the recent departures are due to guild issues - look in the coming and goings section; few are

SL is in fine shape right now, although there are issues as Parth mentioned so I suspect that most SL players will have no empathy with PL players predicament at the end game (assuming Rodvik's post is typical of what we can expect, and his post is much better worded than most).

As near the end of his post tells us, he doesn't realize yet what is happening behind the scenes.

The problem is that the we are being charged by the run. We are also being in many cases faced with heavy pressure to use elixirs. We veterans have all spent (or should I say invested) hundreds into the game each. In recent months, we have seen a poor return for our investment in PL. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay, it's that we aren't getting our money's worth.

2 plat x how many runs are we talking about here?

The big problem is not so much this winter festival as it is that it sets a precedent for what the future has to offer.

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Rodvik here is a pretty good example of some of the newer players. To his credit, his post is very civil and well written - among the best I have seen from the newer players.

I am newer to the STS Community, in a sense that I'm actually more active now due to Star Legends. I dibbled and dabbled here and there with PL prior to SL's release, I even invested in a nice chunk of platinum in PL and won't ever get to use the rest of it which is a lot cause I have no intentions of going back to PL cause it isn't my "vibe" as I have stated. The way I look at it though is I help fund a project that STS had planned on working on in the distant future. Which might I add, I enjoy playing in my free time, and sometimes secretly at work. ( Don't tell my boss.. =/ )

Much lower expectations for new levels than we have

I would have to disagree, I have very high expectations for newer content, as does anyone whose sitting around grinding the same content for months would be. Im always excited to see what STS has up its sleeve in new content. Its honestly what keeps us around.

The problem is that the we are being charged by the run. We are also being in many cases faced with heavy pressure to use elixirs. We veterans have all spent (or should I say invested) hundreds into the game each. In recent months, we have seen a poor return for our investment in PL. The problem is not that we are not willing to pay, it's that we aren't getting our money's worth.

Regardless of my player status, I do know how this feels. I would classify myself as probably one step higher than a casual player, i play quite often, but I did go after the "Vanity Helm" and it did cost me a good amount of Platinum to get it with elixirs in the time frame I was left with. Though I also know that achieving this goal WAS possible without purchasing elixirs it just required "x" amount of time to accomplish which some of us don't have. Then again STS also mentioned that these end game vanity items are for "hardcore" players. Hence as an online gamer, I feel everyone shouldn't have it anyways. I played WOW for 8 years, not everyone was running around with top end gear, thats how online games should be. I don't want to be equal to EVERYONE in the game. If I put effort towards earning something I want to be able to show it off. Unfortunately a lot of aspects arent like this in SL. SL has many problems, especially the economy, that I am very upset about, but I just refuse to voice my opinion most of the time now a days because all people do is make 100 useless unconstructive posts about the issues on our forums. So it would just get lost in the mix and I could understand if STS was like "Great another Platinum Cost Issue Post". I hate to say it but its almost like most of the players in SL are just lazy and want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Maybe thats just how most of society is being raised now a days.

As for spending hundreds into the game, I have invested quite a bit of my hard earned money to SL already. I am satisfied with the content, even with the prices STS sets, because I guess Im not one of those people that is willing to drop "x amount of plat" if it cost to much. I can however say I do feel for all of the upset Veterans that do play PL due to the fact that you guys were the backbone into creating SL. So perhaps maybe I owe you guys a "Thanks" for funding a game I enjoy so thoroughly. Regardless of what many think STS does listen to us, I know first hand, and I was/still am just another player in our ever growing community. So hopefully you guys do get what you expect and deserve in your next expansion.

Might I add that STS has reduced the exp per level cap in SL, I do not know if they did in PL at one point or plan on doing it in the future. But getting from 35 - 36 in SL was like a 46k grind, which was pain staking, and now the 40 - 41 is only 28k. So someone in STS was listening to our cries. This will help alleviate the huge Plat dump most of us are willing to drop in order to achievement top level, and also help the more casual player reach this goal as well if they choose not to use elixirs.

Much easier to please, perhaps because he/she was not here during the prime of PL

I wasn't around for the prime of PL, so I would agree that I am probably much easier to please with content than most because with SL I don't know what to expect, where as you guys might have an idea of how the next PL expansion might turn out to be, cause its starting to get repititious.

SL is in fine shape right now, although there are issues as Parth mentioned so I suspect that most SL players will have no empathy with PL players predicament at the end game

I can tell you SL is not in fine shape, theres A LOT wrong with it. As I stated the economy is garbage and theres really no sense of accomplishment with gear cause you can pretty much buy a whole set "off the back of a truck", if you know what I mean. Then again maybe this is due to the constant whining and bickering of a lot of the SL community members who REFUSE to put forth any effort into achieving something. Like I said I played WOW for the longest time, I was even in a world first guild back in the days of Vanilla WOW. I personally like EXTREMELY CHALLENGING BOSS ENCOUNTERS where I'm bashing my head against my keyboard (or should I say phone or tablet now) trying to figure out the strategy on how to beat them. Where at the end of the day, we might get 1 or 2 "epic" items, but at least I know my group earned them. And guess what, you learn the strategy the boss gets easier and easier. Though as I stated before, people don't like effort anymore.


As far as your end game content, I hope it gets better, some of us do care about how you guys feel, because your money is as good as my money and the more funding STS gets the better they can improve their team which in turn will lead to a better PL and SL.

Thanks,
-Rodvik

[WhoIsThis]

Rodvik - the problems of SL are not nearly the magnitude of PL. The economy is not great. Some players want results instantly. True, but that is not a reason for a mass exodus.

In PL though, from it's zenith to today ... well, the tone of the threads here should give you an idea of what has happened.

[Nightarcher]

Rodvik, try being more concise. Not everyone has an extra hour to kill reading a post longer than the Great Wall of China

[CrimsonTider]

I will say this Sam, at least your responses have actual thought and explanations to some of where STS is coming from. Others just tell us "thank you" and "go elsewhere" and this has rubbed quite a few the wrong way.

Thank you for actually taking TIME to respond.

[Rodvik]

Rodvik - the problems of SL are not nearly the magnitude of PL. The economy is not great. Some players want results instantly. True, but that is not a reason for a mass exodus.

In PL though, from it's zenith to today ... well, the tone of the threads here should give you an idea of what has happened.

Ya I can see by many of the posts the concerns of many PL fans at whats going on. Though just as most things in this world things age and eventually die. You can only do so much to something until you can't do anymore. I'm not saying STS has gotten to this point in PL yet, but eventually PL is going to "lose its flavor". Its like new video games, a company doesn't want to keep its same game or even its fan base doesn't want to keep playing the same game forever. They expect an improved version of it.

Thats the way I look at it, even with SL.

Pocket Legend Released its original content on "whatever date". Everything else is pretty much a DLC.

You can only do so much with something until it finally just gets old. Hence is why they are probably trying to branch off and explore other "themed" games. Such as possibly Star Legends and whatever Dark Legends is suppose to be.

As technology improves so do video games. What I mean by that is, maybe they have plans on the future for Pocket Legends 2 with a more visually stunning graphics engine. Things of that nature.

I installed DIABLO 2 a few days ago to give it a go around on my computer and was like "OMG, the graphics are terrible, and went straight back to SL"...lol

So who knows what STS has in store for the future, but all I know is PL eventually is going to have its expiration date, as do all games.

Rodvik, try being more concise. Not everyone has an extra hour to kill reading a post longer than the Great Wall of China

There you go sir.

[WhoIsThis]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

[Ellyidol]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

8, I think? And only now does it seem to experience a "slight" decrease in subscriptions.

[WhoIsThis]

8, I think? And only now does it seem to experience a "slight" decrease in subscriptions.

I'm guessing WoW probably will be fine. It's established and well known. There are other successful MMOs - Eve Online comes to mind. What I'm saying is, with the right mix of content, it's perfectly possible to have a game that will last a very long time. People still play Starcraft 1 in huge numbers, especially in Korea.

[Rodvik]

Perhaps.

But what has been happening is drastically shortening the life of the game, which could be several years or more. Heck, WoW has been going on for how many years now?

WOW has been going on as long as it has because each "addition" they add, its LOADS of content. I wouldn't even classify WOW expansions as expansions, they are pretty much a whole new game everytime they release one. What you have to take into consideration though is Blizzard is a rediculously huge company they have the funding and team to push out MASS amounts of content while having a team work on small side projects. WOW has also been going on as long as it has because there hasn't been any real game out there that can kill it.

I always told myself that WOW would eventually die only with another Blizzard game, and I honestly think Diablo 3 will kill it when it comes out.

Hell, Blizzard has its own college. lol

[WhoIsThis]

The point is that if they make the right decisions, PL can go on for a very, very long time even with limited resources. I am aware that this is an Indie title (at least for now), but with the right decisions, people will keep playing and new players will come.

Right now though, I feel wrong decisions are being made.

[Rodvik]

The point is that if they make the right decisions, PL can go on for a very, very long time even with limited resources. I am aware that this is an Indie title (at least for now), but with the right decisions, people will keep playing and new players will come.

Right now though, the wrong decisions are being made.

Understandable, and I'm pretty sure STS wants PL to go as long as they can. I mean the game was pretty much Mobile Game Breaking with its MMORPGing capabilities to being with.

[Fac3bon3s]

I was creating a post like this and saving it to post on Monday. I figured the dev's wouldn't be around on the weekend. I completely agree with everything Apollo has said.

[wvhills]

Hey Apollo,

Thanks for taking the time to put this post together. I really appreciate it and am always impressed with the effort you put into the community. It shows how much you care for it and why you were chosen as a Guardian of Alterra oh so many months ago. Just fyi, I changed the thread title to remove the "non-biased" from it. You know, there is always a bias

Honestly guys, I feel just horrible about the situation. As the guy that Spacetime hired to manage their online communities, I feel like I've let both you, the players and the company that I love, down. You and I both know that without you, our dedicated players, our games wouldn't be what they are I thought I had done the work where I could be out on leave with our new baby and things would be fine. .

When I step back and look at it, the issue is changing a flat fee of content to a turnstile one. Our intent was to make the holiday content more accessible. In looking at last year's event and the Halloween content we wanted to make it easier for people to get into it, hence the change to have a lower up front price (2 Plat now, vs. 10 Plat previously). This content has always been optional for Platinum. It was last year, it is again this year. That doesn't change the you can play the entire rest of the game for free.

For me the biggest issue is when you say you feel a loss of trust with Spacetime over this. In retrospect, I think that we should have done a better job of telling our players that this change was coming and why so that you would always feel informed and cared for. I know that we have a lot of work to do to try and regain that trust.

Sam this is much more reasonable than Justg saying "if you don't like it go somewhere else" (I know Pandar said Justg was talking to one specific person but that person was expressing an opinion that others, myself included, share) and Pandar saying "if you don't like X then don't spend plat on it". I've lost a lot of trust in STS but not in you as a person. I think you're the only one there who really cares about the players instead of the plat.

I haven't played winter fest at all this year and don't plan too simply because I don't want to be turnstiled. I would have preferred a one time fee (I would have paid up to 50 plat). Another reason is because you guys have killed twinking. If I thought I could farm some good pinks for my low level toons then I would have considered the turnstile approach but as it is I have no plans of ever playing my low levels again because you've removed kill farming and scale farming. I'm not going to give a lot of feedback than that because I'm not sure it helps and I recently realized I was too caught up in this game and have become more detached. It's STS's game and you can do with it whatever you want and I'll mind my own business and do my own thing in game. As I customer I don't mind paying for content but when it feels like I'm not getting what I am paying for or I feel like I could get a better game somewhere at a cheaper price then I'll leave too. I hope in the future more creativity is put into PL and we see better maps content wise than what we got Mt fang which is just recycled content from what we've had in the past or doesn't blatantly promote elixir use like Nuri's (which I thought would have been a great map (except for the recycled boss sayings) if you didn't have to be in a party of with at least 3 people on thrashers to complete it).