Seriously, Gold Sinks?

[dudetus]

Interesting disussion on a subject which is relevant to all MMORPGs.

In the case of PL it is evident (to me) that some measures were already taken to counter the effects of inflation:

1. Limiting transactions below a certain gold cap.

2. Dragon sets are actually gold sinks. Probably this is one of the reasons why they changed them so that if you want their bonus, you give up their value (gold).

3. Introduction of powerful, special-event-looted (e.g. Forgotten) or awarded (e.g. Angelic) gear which decreased the value of previously high-end items (thus degrading hoarded stocks) is another example of gold sink.

So why are the prices of Blacksmoke items still high?

I will answer this question with another question: Yes, prices are high, but are they out of control?

As we know prices are determined by supply and demand. An increase in drop rates would cause the prices to drop. E.g. look what happened to L.56 Glyph sets: they used to be worth 20 mil, now the most expensive costs 2 mil. No player clique could control/prevent this downfall. But drop rates have not increased (yet) in Blacksmoke (again, this is my personal opinion/observation). Also, consider that even the logic of "Premium" and "Normal" pink sets (e.g. Obedience/Mimicry or Lilith/of the Fang) was abandoned in the current campaign. This further increased the demand for Blacksmoke pinks as there is no cheap alternative anymore. This was a decision and therefore increased rarity was (IMO) a desirable outcome for the developing team. Additionally, this time levels take more time to complete, bosses are fewer and the boss that drops armors is particularly hard. All these factors make farming more difficult compared to previous campaigns (having a negative effect on supply), which further explains the high market prices. Possibly, high as intended.

As a general comment: IMO the whole F2P model is based in converting real money to in-game currency (in this case mainly indirectly e.g. luck boosters, plat recipes etc) which obviously leads to gold accumulation + inflation if not handled properly. Given PL's success, I believe that inflation is a matter seriously considered and taken care of.

In summary, I agree that gold accumulation is a potential problem, but only if there is evidence that market prices are solely controlled by a clique of rich players. The L.56 Glyph paradigm proves that this is not the case. In fact, the good news is that a new player can easily progress until the endgame using cheap gear (i.e. Sewers, Nuri and Fang items). A good Humania set (750k - 1.5 mil) is then sufficient to start farming and after a few drops in Blacksmoke they can start thinking about an endgame set.

Ah, I totally forgot the dragon equipment which totally supplements as an effective gold sink. +1 for that.

It's true, that Dragons are a gold sink, but to think of that this game ran 2 and a half years without any sort of effective gold sinks, there still is lots of gold circulating. And yes, as seen from lvl 56 Glyph the drop rates (meaning supply and demand) could indeed work to get end game set prices lower and overall items less expensive.

I still do think that we need a gold sink even if drop rates were raised as this game has been running so long without any effective gold sink systems. Vanity and item bundles would be IMO the best solution as there already are these in 2 games (AL, PL). And as an addition I think overall liqudating prices should be lowered way down to same levels as in other games. Not a gold sink, but definetely a countermeasure against future inflation.

Very well put reply Robin.

[XghostzX]

The devs won't ever acknowledge us anymore

[Deadsoldiers]

The devs won't ever acknowledge us anymore

Seems like you're right

[Seiyen]

Agreee with op, prices are rediculous :thumbdown:

[Cobraguy]

To the guys who think Dragon gear is a gold sink, please explain. Isnt a gold sink when gold disappears into nothingness? If I buy your dragon set, you have the gold, it stays in the economy....

[Brave Sir Robin]

To the guys who think Dragon gear is a gold sink, please explain. Isnt a gold sink when gold disappears into nothingness? If I buy your dragon set, you have the gold, it stays in the economy....

A simple way to see it is the definition:

a video game's in-game currency ('gold'), or any item that can be valued against it, is removed.

So in our case the valuable items "Helm, Armor" are removed during the crafting process. By definition this makes dragon vanity crafting a gold sink.

If you want to see it in terms of world economy, I can give 2 examples:

A. World population = 1, farmer, Resources: 600 plat, 60k, 8 hrs to farm.

World wealth: 600 plat, 60k, 8 farming hours.

After spending 30k on pots and 8 hrs of farming on 100% luck (-320 plat) he farms the set worth 6 mil.

World wealth: 280 plat, 6.03 mil. gold (30k gold and 6 mil on tradeable items), 0 farming hours.

To craft the set he spends 200 plat on a pet dragon, 30k for recipe and now the dragon set is not tradeable.

World wealth: 80 plat, 0 gold, 0 farming hours.

This also serves as a reminder that in-game gold comes with a cost.

B. World population = 2

1. Merchant with dragon set
2. Buyer with wealth: 6.03 mil gold, 200 plat.

World wealth: 12.03 mil gold (6.03 mil gold and 6 mil tradeables), 200 plat.

Buyer purchases dragon set.

World wealth: 12.03 mil gold (6.03 mil gold and 6 mil tradeables), 200 plat.

Buyer buys dragon pet and crafts the set.

World wealth: 6 mil gold, 0 plat.

Ah, I totally forgot the dragon equipment which totally supplements as an effective gold sink. +1 for that.

It's true, that Dragons are a gold sink, but to think of that this game ran 2 and a half years without any sort of effective gold sinks, there still is lots of gold circulating. And yes, as seen from lvl 56 Glyph the drop rates (meaning supply and demand) could indeed work to get end game set prices lower and overall items less expensive.

I still do think that we need a gold sink even if drop rates were raised as this game has been running so long without any effective gold sink systems. Vanity and item bundles would be IMO the best solution as there already are these in 2 games (AL, PL). And as an addition I think overall liqudating prices should be lowered way down to same levels as in other games. Not a gold sink, but definetely a countermeasure against future inflation.

Very well put reply Robin.

Thx, nice discussion going on here (for a change lol). Interesting what you mention about lowering liquidating prices. Have more thoughts, will probably write some more when I manage to put them in order

[Elf-Orc-Naga]

So, basically gold sinks are IG features which are designed to reduce gold currency in general in a game. Common gold sinks in MMOs are vanities, mounts, gear, etc. The only gold sinks in PL are potions and some elixirs. They aren't effective. Gold sinks are at their best as they are something which aren't necessity features in game. The problem without gold sinks is inflation. This can be easily seen as the heightened item prices in PL. And it has been spiralled way out of control since AO3.

In PL, there rly aren't any Gold Sinks. I have no idea why they haven't been added way earlier to the game (I already did a price complaint thread ages ago. click me. Notice that the thread was made over a year ago) as the prices are just plain ridiculous. 4M for lvl 75 crafted STR armor, 2M for 1h wep, around 0.5M for helm and another 2M for the shield. Just ewwww.

I have been pondering a few obvious gold sinks for PL.


1) New vanities for Gold
So obvious. Wouldn't require that much of work and would be a rly effective way to get sum gold vanish. Prices may vary from 10k all the way to 1m as an example. With vanities, they can be anything and IMO gold purchasable exclusive vanities would be the best gold sink for PL, as the game itself is all about looking cool in end game.

2) Elixirs for Gold
Yeah, there already are some elixirs for gold. But who the heck will pay constantly some cash for 5 minute elixirs? It just doesn't make sense for me that the gold purchasable elixirs are so weak. Ofc the platinum bought elixirs should be stronger than gold bought, but like 2x 1/2 hour combo elixir for like 10k would be a very effective and constant gold sink. This one would be hardest to implement from my suggestions as it requires STS to tamper their best revenue merchandise, the elixirs. But yet, again, the situation is just simply horrible economically in PL. We need all the possible Gold Sinks IMO as for now.

3) Items for Gold
This is kinda like the same idea as the "bundles" in DL and AL. "Buy this superyduperychest for 50k and u may receive something cool". There could be scale able mediocre pinks (with mediocre meaning good, but not the best for the current lvl) and some superydupery exclusive vanities to look for. STR, DEX, INT and different vanity packs. I do not think that this system would be hard to implement to PL as it has always been there for DL and AL.


Ik that some of u might feel skeptical about this whole idea of "Gold Sinks".

"STOPID DADTUS I DO NOT WANTS TO GIEV MI GOLDS AWAI OMGOMGMOGMLOLOLOLROFLCOPTER"

But gold sinks are necessary. MMORPGs like PL are actual words. Some rules do go hand to hand with the real world. Economics does apply to MMORPGs. In real life the gold sinks are our necessities like food, home, shelter, platinum for PL and so on. In PL our only necessity is what we decide is our necessity. There aren't any requirements like "omgomg i gots to bai fod or mi burd deds". Gold keeps on coming and coming and nothing takes it away than what we decide we want. Some may be wondering how the gold just keeps on coming. Mainly, the gold comes to the game from dungeons. U know, those chests and enemies? They give totally free gold. U know those items u receive as random drops? They give u gold as u liquidate them. Other way how gold just magically appears to our Alterra, is gold purchasers for platinum. It might seem odd that we would get that much money to flow to the game but think for a while.

Let's imagine from June (as I can't recall specific release date in May) 2010 there have been daily 10 000 players doing 10 runs each and each run grants 200 golds for every player (a rly undercutting estimate IMO). So, daily there comes 2 000 000 golds to the whole game. for the year 2010 there came in total of 4 280 000 000 golds. Not to mention that as time has gone by, there are more and more players playing this game. That was just a simpleton estimation (yet again, totally lowballing IMO) for 2010 year only. Not to mention I start counting from June while 2011 and 2012 would have been full calender years. It's true that all of that gold isn't floating in PL as there are people who quit, but yet again I didn't even count or estimate the plat purchased gold.


All in all, Gold Sinks are a necessity for every single popular MMO. U can't just ignore the huge inflation going on STS, we need some action.

This is the reason why I suggested to introduce "mounts" and buy it from NPC for 5 mil! (or any value > 2mil). Then have mount rank (different from mount level) in terms of gold too. In this case economy can be distorted(or "normalized") and nothing left to do but to farm farm thrash gears then liquidate it for gold... and dungeons which produce gold will be alive again (i remember crush the keeper to buy mega void gun noob farming for me lol)

[Chopper]

This has been mentioned many times already and has turned cold. PL needs more than a gold sink now, they need a miracle to correct its economy. Gold Sinks are supposed to prevent over inflation, not solve them. When there's too much currency in a game, there's no turning back, because people will hold on to their gold. It's a natural economic behavior called greed. You don't expect someone to just spend a large portion of his wealth for NPC items. If they impose drastic gold sinks by selling expensive NPC items, people ignores those items and rages. So not only do they have an over inflated economy, they also now have an angry community. Not to mention, this game sells in-game gold for real money, and it will look like they're just forcing people to buy in-game gold with real money. Two words: Too late. Many games have suffered this fate, and it's a point of no return.


PS: People are only realizing this now? We started talking about this over a year ago...LOL, and we were branded trolls for doing so...oh well

good points. It's a rough problem to solve now.

Maybe a dreaded TAX by STS on all gold stashes and items? The rich get killed the most. Brings some balance back. Or enable gold to be spent on items in other games (but not vice versa) to drain gold out of the system.

[Chopper]

**duplicate post**