Nekro - Overpowered?

[Zeus]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

[twoxc]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

[PhoenixPrime]

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

Thank you! I only play the game for the PVE aspects (PVP just has zero interest for me) and I always seem to finally be able to afford something right before/after it gets nerfed (like Breeze, not huge, but it did get dinged).

If any tweaks are made, please only do it to the PVP aspects, and leave the PVE aspects alone. It is nice to be able to work towards getting OP gear and pets, so we can blow off steam by thoroughly pounding monsters into the ground, 8^).

[Slowking]

Damn I hate it when you're right lol.

Also responding to this thread, not this post. Don't get Nekro involve with PVE lol PVE almost has nothing to do with Nekro being OP or not. Matter of fact a pet being over power in PVE is always a good thing. Everyone definitely want to kill everything faster in elite map and of course farm faster when the time come. Rather it's for TIMED RUN or FARM RUN, true skill and talent come from the players and each of his own, not the pet itself. Not to brag or anything but with or without nekro some of my team/guild can still have a fast elite run, just a bit more challenge and slower time but it will still hold record. The key is, why play hard when you can play smart by using a nekro as it is intended to make things easier and faster.

Don't get one and don't play against one, if you think NEKRO is OVER POWER or just get one and join the majority. xD

That is were our opinions are different. Nekro does affect PvE in my opinion. I agree, over-powered things are great in PvE. Then again, they are great in PvP too. But having an option to directly be the best is not a viable future for any game. Strategies are needed. Moreover, faster farming does help, yes. But do it enough times and people start getting bored out of their minds.

Games are rated on how challenging and fun they are. A lot of players first joined the game because it was rated the best MMO of 2012 and '13 (if memory serves right). And yes, in those days PvE was challenging. You couldn't just combo everything and keep on spamming skills to finish elite maps. But now, its turned into exactly that. Spam skills and finish maps.

Nekro does affect timed runs. Imagine a scenario where the team pulls a huge crowd but accidentally pulls one too many. In a case without a Nekro, the mobs would slow and debuff the team and hit them hard making them spam pots or they might even die which will have an outcome on the end result. But with Nekro, mistakes such as that can be overlooked. Its AA speed boost works completely opposite to the other speed boosts. Any speed debuff is overridden by Nekro's speed boost. This allows the team to pay no consequence for pulling too many mobs and can easily finish the run. This helps one get on lb,yes. But it depletes the need to gain skill and how to deal with situations.

In a game, the challenging part and the fun it provides takes a higher priority than all else. Nekro changes that. Of course, it helps in farming faster and more easier. But no other combination of pets can do it like that (other than perhaps, SNS).

PvE is a huge aspect of the game and it should be challenging. Otherwise it'll turn into endless mind-numbing hours of skill spamming. Tindrin elites in the beginning of the season is one of the examples of a challenging yet fun way of PvE.

[Vediovis]

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out.

Well I agree with your point on gear, I have too say I disagree with pets. During season 2 we were free to experiment since each pet had it's own strategic use. Pets played the role of support and not any single one was vital to excel. Obviously there is always going to be the top tier pets for pvp, but with pets like SnS and Nekro it goes beyond that and creates a gap that shouldn't exist.

[Jazzi]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

So practically u are saying that with my 40 million in gear and pets (current market value) I should not try PvP at all?!? Rolf... So u say 99.9% of the game population should not ever play PvP.

The part where there is a Nekro on each team most of the times is definitely not true. Maybe it is if u are in a PvP guild and can "call" someone who has one.

Currently I can one combo a ring/ imbued rogue (no nekro), whereas I would lose with a certainly of 90% to a expedition bow rogue who has nekro. Not sure how anyone could think that is OK

Anyhow the Nekro buff definitely went overboard by a lot. Don't even get me started on God mode in PvE.

Giving such an advantage to a part of the game population is the reason why games like Diablo 3 lost 9 million (90%) of their active players.

[Zeus]

So practically u are saying that with my 40 million in gear and pets (current market value) I should not try PvP at all?!? Rolf... So u say 99.9% of the game population should not ever play PvP.

The part where there is a Nekro on each team most of the times is definitely not true. Maybe it is if u are in a PvP guild and can "call" someone who has one.

Currently I can one combo a ring/ imbued rogue (no nekro), whereas I would lose with a certainly of 90% to a expedition bow rogue who has nekro. Not sure how anyone could think that is OK

Anyhow the Nekro buff definitely went overboard by a lot. Don't even get me started on God mode in PvE.

Giving such an advantage to a part of the game population is the reason why games like Diablo 3 lost 9 million (90%) of their active players.

You can try PvP and be competitive with players of your own level but you cannot expect to compete with people in 60M gear + Nekro.

Nekro, in my eyes, has helped balance many things like say, for example: tank stacking. Now, if a game is stacked with tanks, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot survive & break tanks. Yes, there's some give with that but there are also many benefits.

The ideal PvP system would be to not allow players to choose teams, or limit the number of classes per team but AL was not intended to be a PvP game nor is it promoted as one. Yes, there are tournaments and such but the main part of the game is and always will be PvE. Please note, I am just stating this in predictive rebuttal where one will claim that I cannot expect a pet to balance tank stacking. In the already imbalanced PvP system, Nekro, for me, has helped combat some of the apparent imbalances that exist. Sure, it may have created other imbalances for those that do not have one but I believe that will be a fleeting concern as the game continues to become more populated with Nekro owners.

[Jazzi]

You can try PvP and be competitive with players of your own level but you cannot expect to compete with people in 60M gear + Nekro.

Nekro, in my eyes, has helped balance many things like say, for example: tank stacking. Now, if a game is stacked with tanks, it does not necessarily mean that I cannot survive & break tanks. Yes, there's some give with that but there are also many benefits.

The ideal PvP system would be to not allow players to choose teams, or limit the number of classes per team but AL was not intended to be a PvP game nor is it promoted as one. Yes, there are tournaments and such but the main part of the game is and always will be PvE. Please note, I am just stating this in predictive rebuttal where one will claim that I cannot expect a pet to balance tank stacking. In the already imbalanced PvP system, Nekro, for me, has helped combat some of the apparent imbalances that exist. Sure, it may have created other imbalances for those that do not have one but I believe that will be a fleeting concern as the game continues to become more populated with Nekro owners.

I will try to keep it shorter this time and base it on an example from the last two weeks.

A member of your guild (Bulleth) and I actually won a 4vs2 (TDM) where the other team had a ring rogue and a ring mage. I am using this example because this was the most fun I had in PvP. The whole point of this thread is that this could have never happened if the opposite team had a nekro. Not in a million rematches.

P.S. I do not pretend to be an expert on PvP. Not even to be very good at it. I just know the basics. This being said the pet is very broken in PvE as well. There are many reasons for that, but the main one is God mode during boss fights. Ofc this does no matter if you are going to spam revenge buff all the time, but believe it or not, most people dont wanna do that

[Overweightank]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

Most people PvP because farming is extremely mind rattlingly boring, and dead... I myself stopped doing PvE and went to PvP. I usually don't complain. if there's more than one Nekro and I'm with a noob team, i just leave. It's not so much the problem of who the person is. It's how overpowered the pet is. I say no to nerf, but yes to buff other pets to compete even close to nekro. At the moment i'd rather fight a full team of SnS than a full team of Nekro. I dont know if i sound crazy but i find SNS more easy to survive...

[Alhuntrazeck]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

It isn't the price tag. It is a broken pet like breeze was, simple as that. Even if I could afford the pet I wouldn't get it because I don't play the "if you can't beat them join them" game. People did that with Bulwark. Surprise, it got nerfed. People did it again with breeze. Guess what? Nerf bat.

There's OP, then there's utter insanity. A pet which basically gives you a Blinky's AA for 10 seconds, along with Nekros already great stats, stun immunity for ten seconds, movement speed boost so that you basically ignore tanks and get to the dps quickly. Nekros passive attack also deals heavy damage, as much as an auto attack or perhaps a skill of a low geared warrior. See, this isn't OP this is GODMODE.

How do you successfully build your character in this game? Open crates that's how. There's simply no other way to make the 30M necessary short of actually looting a fossil in arena. Some people don't have the $10k bank statement!

About your comment that skill is not necessary, I beg to differ. You have to know your class skill ranges, how to use them effectively, how to make the most out of walls, Trulle and trees. The rogue tournament you held was a prime example.

Lastly, in a random game, I have only rarely ever fought with Nekros on either end. Almost all of the time (99%) it has ended up with me and a friend or two with random versus a fully geared, Nekro team. 21K PvP kills speaking, have never been max geared so that should say something about my time in PvP.

Also, why has a dev changed the thread title but declined to post here...?

[CipiXxArcanexX]

It isn't the price tag. It is a broken pet like breeze was, simple as that. Even if I could afford the pet I wouldn't get it because I don't play the "if you can't beat them join them" game. People did that with Bulwark. Surprise, it got nerfed. People did it again with breeze. Guess what? Nerf bat.

There's OP, then there's utter insanity. A pet which basically gives you a Blinky's AA for 10 seconds, along with Nekros already great stats, stun immunity for ten seconds, movement speed boost so that you basically ignore tanks and get to the dps quickly. Nekros passive attack also deals heavy damage, as much as an auto attack or perhaps a skill of a low geared warrior. See, this isn't OP this is GODMODE.

How do you successfully build your character in this game? Open crates that's how. There's simply no other way to make the 30M necessary short of actually looting a fossil in arena. Some people don't have the $10k bank statement!

About your comment that skill is not necessary, I beg to differ. You have to know your class skill ranges, how to use them effectively, how to make the most out of walls, Trulle and trees. The rogue tournament you held was a prime example.

Lastly, in a random game, I have only rarely ever fought with Nekros on either end. Almost all of the time (99%) it has ended up with me and a friend or two with random versus a fully geared, Nekro team. 21K PvP kills speaking, have never been max geared so that should say something about my time in PvP.

Also, why has a dev changed the thread title but declined to post here...?

For the moment i try loot a fossil in arena master chest
I have 17 chest i will open when i got 50-60 chests...
I have only 8k in bank xD

[Slowking]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

The price tag is not the concern here. Yes, people were not complaining when Samael was 25-27M because although it is an exceptionally good pet, it does have its drawbacks and not every single player in the game wanted it as a priority. They were more focussed on getting gear first. But with Nekro, it surpasses existing gear and this does not fall in line with the fact that pets have a supportive role in the game.

You say that almost always, both sides in a match have Nekro. I strongly disagree. Unless you're in a good PvP guild, the possibilities of that happening are minute. You say a team not having Nekro, will continue to lose clashes even if they get Nekro? I strongly disagree yet again. Nekro is not the required standard for someone to PvP. Not everyone can afford it. You have 60k+ kills yes, but you mostly play with max geared people who can call Nekro's and SnS' and hence you assume every team will always have one.But that is not true.Lots of clashes can be turned around if the team without Nekro gets one, or the team using it, uses another pet. As of now, a Nekro can vastly influence a clash and its outcome. Nerfing Nekro's speed and panic will not give an advantage to SnS users as the damage dealt by pools will still be massively reduced and the Nekro user will not get stunned on top of pools. Avoiding the pools needs focus and skill, not a speed boost which allows you to walk over it without batting an eye.

A lot of the player base loves the PvP aspect of the game. They can't just be forced to play PvE 24/7 to even have a chance in PvP. Yes, having the best gear should give you a considerable advantage. But no, the odds against a lesser geared person should not be 10-0 every 10 matches. I disagree yet again. You say skill is not involved in MMOS. Knowing your character thoroughly to ensure survival and using said character to ensure the victory of a team requires absolute skill. Till Nekro came along, of course. Ping plays a more crucial part, yes. But no one can deny the fact that skill is needed.
In a vs or walls, ping plays the more crucial role. While in clashes, skill and teamwork are what matters. Mistakes should cost clashes. But now, Nekro users are free to run through to the other side and release some comboes and then rush back without much consequence.

PvP is for all, and the difference between second best gear and best gear should not be unsurpassable.

[Ghoul]

It's the price that Samuel once was. People did not complain about Samael at the 25-27M price tag so I do not see the purpose to complain about Nekro in the 25-27M price tag.

Now, from what I've seen in my 60K+ kills of PvP experience, there's usually a Nekro on each side. If there isn't, it's usually a group of players that are considered food anyways due to being vastly under geared and attempting PvP. Have a Nekro on said team would not change the outcome of the match. Let us keep in mind that many SnS users have disappeared in PvP because they are forced to use their Nekros instead of SnS. Your thread would make more incentive to use SnS over Nekro,

In my opinion, PvP should be the final attempt in the game. It's where you compete AFTER you've successfully built your character. Why? The vast differences in gear. Players cannot expect to compete with subpar gear and pets or expect some sort of balance. Higher gear, will naturally, win out. There isn't really much skill involved in MMOs. It comes down to stats, ping, device, reaction time. Reaction time is the only skill related variable and it is something that is not even significant because even if a person A's reaction time is far quicker than person B's reaction time, person A's ping and device processing power will determine who lands their skills, debuffs, etc. first.

When I started the game, I knew this and I did not really bother entering PvP until I was at least somewhat competitive with the other players (meaning maxed gear but no arcane pet).

I agree with this thread 100%.

I'd like to respectfully disagree about your comment stating that skill is nonexistent. It is simply because you have gear that you think skill is not needed. There are many undergeared players who are absolutely amazing in PvP and win against severe disadvantages.

[Zeus]

I agree with this thread 100%.

I'd like to respectfully disagree about your comment stating that skill is nonexistent. It is simply because you have gear that you think skill is not needed. There are many undergeared players who are absolutely amazing in PvP and win against severe disadvantages.

MMOs, no matter which way you look at it, take very little skill to compete in.


Here are the factors MMO PvP requires:
- Gear
- Ping
- Device
- Skill Judgement
- Build
- Speed
- Understanding of Mechanics

The only factors that require skills is: skill judgement and speed. Understanding of mechanics is something irrelevant because it's simple memorization of information that players who took the time to analyze the game. Even those factors do not outweigh everything else and that is my point. I never stated that skill is nonexistent, I said it plays a very small role in MMOs like AL. If you want to see an MMO that took skill, play Pocket Legends or Star Legends (both of which, I was considered the top of my class during my time of playing).

On a side note: Pick any player excluding Night/Arrypotta (I consider them my equals, if not better players) and I'll gear down and win. Additionally, any MMO I have played, I have won tournaments in. Every. Single. One. So please do not say I am without skill or imply that. I have more than a handful of references that prove otherwise.


So no, it is not simply because I have gear that I think skill is not needed. I just think very little skill is needed to perform exceptionally in a four skill game like AL. There is very little diversity and very minor differences in strategy (apart from timed runs, which may be the only place where the game actually has some skill besides PvP tournaments).

[KingFu]

If you want to see an MMO that took skill, play Pocket Legends or Star Legends (both of which, I was considered the top of my class during my time of playing).

Uh, PL never really took much skill at all. Everything you listed here:

Here are the factors MMO PvP requires:
- Gear
- Ping
- Device
- Skill Judgement
- Build
- Speed
- Understanding of Mechanics

The only factors that require skills is: skill judgement and speed. Understanding of mechanics is something irrelevant because it's simple memorization of information that players who took the time to analyze the game. Even those factors do not outweigh everything else and that is my point.

Can also be said for PL, regardless of what cap you're referring to. Current end game requires less skill than Candy Land, and even the cap said to be the golden age of PvP in PL (56) emphasized more on the variables you listed than the user's true skill level. Especially if you're talking about pre-GCD. Really, the only time in PL where you could possibly argue it took some level of skill would be post-GCD 56. Arguing otherwise for any of the other caps would be outlandish.